Atlantic Canada airport thread

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Maybe for a frequent fliier like yourself, potentially hourly connections (I have trouble believing this would happen) for shorter connection times would make sense

Halifax doesn't even have hourly flights to YYZ.

[q12]

Google flights includes Halifax Stanfield in the flight options search results when you select the city of Moncton, New Brunswick as a departure location instead of the Moncton airport specifically. Google thinks it's in driving range obviously.

As has been pointed out by others much larger cities in Ontario drive longer distances to get to Pearson.

If New Brunswick had one airport it would likely end up reducing service overall to the region. You need one large airport for our regional population to help us go after some of the long haul European flights as well as trans-continental.

Even post-pandemic Halifax Stanfield does pretty well for the Maritimes with a regional population of only 2.1 Million. Hopefully we could see the return of some regional flying between Halifax and Sydney/Charlottetown/Moncton/Saint John/Fredericton with the appropriate aircraft size and enough available pilots sometime in the future.

[J81]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I have been a 100K AC member for 8 or 9 years, I fly more regularly than 99% of the population and I would fully support it and it would be 10x more convenient for those of us who do travel frequently.

Sussex is ~ 45 minute drive from all three airports and would draw significant enough passenger volume to allow for hourly flights to YYZ which would drop the average connection time several hours, reducing your travel time dramatically on both ends.

It would also allow for bigger and much more comfortable planes, which also provide shorter flight times and more economical fares.

The combined operations would be more economical than 3 airports, so there is obviously some ROI, but certainly measured in years, maybe decades but it would move the province forward and allow us to compete with NS.

The biggest blocker is politics, and I agree it will never happen, but it should, and I am far from the only one who thinks that.

See youre living in a fairytale land. There is no way to measure the benefits. There are no guarantees any level of service would be better. The costs however are a little easier to estimate and theyre insanely prohibitive. We already have A320 family and 737 family of aircraft to YUL YYZ and YEG and YYC. Thats as big as its ever going to get for this province. Hourly service to Toronto from NB? I dont even think Ottawa has that anymore so its just never going to happen. A few more flights per day would be great but you dont need to spend billions of dollars for it. You’d be better off spending a couple million to train some pilots to fly more planes.

Anyway the biggest blocker isnt politics. Its reality.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by q12

Google flights includes Halifax Stanfield in the flight options search results when you select the city of Moncton, New Brunswick as a departure location instead of the Moncton airport specifically. Google thinks it's in driving range obviously.

Imagine putting the cost of building a new airport into improved rail transportation for the region. Since people are flying anyway they don't really need a car. Good rail would make it more convenient to get from Saint John to Moncton (or Moncton to YHZ) than SJ/Moncton to Sussex.

[J81]

Originally Posted by someone123

Imagine putting the cost of building a new airport into improved rail transportation for the region. Since people are flying anyway they don't really need a car. Good rail would make it more convenient to get from Saint John to Moncton (or Moncton to YHZ) than SJ/Moncton to Sussex.

Wholeheartedly agree! The infrastructure is already there. Definitely could use some upgrades and a few new stations on the Sussex sub but the problem is CN.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by someone123

Imagine putting the cost of building a new airport into improved rail transportation for the region. Since people are flying anyway they don't really need a car. Good rail would make it more convenient to get from Saint John to Moncton (or Moncton to YHZ) than SJ/Moncton to Sussex.

Agreed, we need to shift the conversation from airports to better rail connections in NB. Saint John to Fredericton airport is only around 70-75 km, with a good rail system you could get there in under half an hour, same with Moncton which might take an hour, which is nothing if you’re sitting in a train instead of driving.

The minimum benefit of a combined airport is just that, an airport. The minimum benefit of a good rail system linking all three cities is increased economic mobility for all of the residents, on top of the potential air travel benefits.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Agreed, we need to shift the conversation from airports to better rail connections in NB. Saint John to Fredericton airport is only around 70-75 km, with a good rail system you could get there in under half an hour, same with Moncton which might take an hour, which is nothing if you’re sitting in a train instead of driving.

The minimum benefit of a combined airport is just that, an airport. The minimum benefit of a good rail system linking all three cities is increased economic mobility for all of the residents, on top of the potential air travel benefits.

SJ to Halifax via Moncton is plausible via train. Maybe stop in KV, Sussex, Sackville, Truro, Bedford or something. I wouldn't use it, but that COULD exist with limited investment. Anything to St. Stephen or Fredericton (from Moncton or SJ), let alone Sydney, would require new trackage, and I do not think anyone has the pockets or stomach to construct a brand new rail line from Fredericton Junction and/or Chipman that would see almost no freight. If it actually entered Fredericton along existing ROW you'd have to rip out their beloved trail system.

McAdam is too small sadly to justify the return of trains to their station, and a cross-Maine train would be way too annoying in our 'post-9/11' world.

The only transportation upgrade really needed in Greater SJ is twinning the seven miles of Route 7 from exit 90 at Crane Mountain to 80 at Route 102. Maybe the other four miles from 102 to the Welsford bypass. That's not an unreasonable ask, right? 11 miles?

[J81]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

SJ to Halifax via Moncton is plausible via train. Maybe stop in KV, Sussex, Sackville, Truro, Bedford or something. I wouldn't use it, but that COULD exist with limited investment. Anything to St. Stephen or Fredericton (from Moncton or SJ), let alone Sydney, would require new trackage, and I do not think anyone has the pockets or stomach to construct a brand new rail line from Fredericton Junction and/or Chipman that would see almost no freight. If it actually entered Fredericton along existing ROW you'd have to rip out their beloved trail system.

McAdam is too small sadly to justify the return of trains to their station, and a cross-Maine train would be way too annoying in our 'post-9/11' world.

The only transportation upgrade really needed in Greater SJ is twinning the seven miles of Route 7 from exit 90 at Crane Mountain to 80 at Route 102. Maybe the other four miles from 102 to the Welsford bypass. That's not an unreasonable ask, right? 11 miles?

Amtrak runs trains across the border everyday. Its no more inconvenient than it is to fly into the states. But thats not why that service will never happen.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by J81

See youre living in a fairytale land. There is no way to measure the benefits. There are no guarantees any level of service would be better. The costs however are a little easier to estimate and theyre insanely prohibitive. We already have A320 family and 737 family of aircraft to YUL YYZ and YEG and YYC. Thats as big as its ever going to get for this province. Hourly service to Toronto from NB? I dont even think Ottawa has that anymore so its just never going to happen. A few more flights per day would be great but you dont need to spend billions of dollars for it. You’d be better off spending a couple million to train some pilots to fly more planes.

Anyway the biggest blocker isnt politics. Its reality.

The concept that a temporary AB sponsored flight to YEG or YYC is as big as we are ever going to get is the attitude that holds back things like a centralized airport in my opinion. NB needs to think bigger and start to centralize things, but politics will continue to hold that back.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree with you, politics is the biggest blocker.

[MonctonRad]

The only way this idea would work is if we centralize the population of the big three cities in Sussex as well.

All those in favour of mass forced migration say "aye."

[J81]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

The concept that a temporary AB sponsored flight to YEG or YYC is as big as we are ever going to get is the attitude that holds back things like a centralized airport in my opinion. NB needs to think bigger and start to centralize things, but politics will continue to hold that back.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree with you, politics is the biggest blocker.

I was referring to the size of the aircraft. LOL

Politics literally has nothing to do with it. The airports are operated by private entities and are regulated federally. The 3 airports main airports in NB are not going anywhere. A central main NB airport located near sussex isnt and will never ever be on any political radar because it’s completely useless. This isnt Simcity!

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

The concept that a temporary AB sponsored flight to YEG or YYC is as big as we are ever going to get is the attitude that holds back things like a centralized airport in my opinion. NB needs to think bigger and start to centralize things, but politics will continue to hold that back.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree with you, politics is the biggest blocker.

Easy to say that is it a political issue but what exactly do you mean by that?

[Taeolas]

Going off topic, but thinking of a rail, Freddy is going to need a rail connection eventually; it's the way of the future as far as environmental friendliness goes. And a connection that is outside of the city isn't going to cut it.

So threading the rail back into the core would have to be done, which would mean losing some of our trail system. But I wonder if/when we get the guts to do that, if the solution might be to just widen the trail so the rail ROW and the trail can be side by side. Getting the land would be pricy and probably prohibitive, but at least the route would be maintained.

Probably more of a short term solution would be to thread the rail line into the uptown area; past Costco/off the New Maryland highway. That would keep it close to the city to be usable, but might be easier to route than trying to get through an increasingly dense core.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by J81

Wholeheartedly agree! The infrastructure is already there. Definitely could use some upgrades and a few new stations on the Sussex sub but the problem is CN.

I think for the situation to change significantly the Maritimes would have to operate more like Ontario and GO Transit, buying and building new infrastructure and operating their own trains rather than waiting around for CN and VIA and buy-in from people who are a thousand km away. I don't think it's as challenging in the Maritimes since a lot of land is unused and there aren't any real mountains. In some cases CN does not even fully develop their own corridors and they have the space for 2 tracks but they pulled one up. It is a bit of a bizarre situation where there are always threats of degrading services ostensibly due to low use but whenever somebody wants to use it more they're told there's too much contention so it's out of the question.

There is a commuter rail line around here that is operated by the local transit agency and they negotiated use of a CP line in the 90's. There would not be a maglev route running around the Maritimes but in Europe there are lots of smaller routes rated for 200 km/h or more. It does not require exotic technology, but it does require upgrades beyond 19th century standards. This could be done by gradually building parallel infrastructure not owned by CN or CP. The airports are interesting destinations for this since there's a lot of open space around them.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The only way this idea would work is if we centralize the population of the big three cities in Sussex as well.

All those in favour of mass forced migration say "aye."

So your argument is people won't drive 45 minutes to an airport? LOL. Lots and lots of people drive from NB to Halifax or BGR to get better service/better pricing so I think your dead wrong.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Easy to say that is it a political issue but what exactly do you mean by that?

I will PM you to try and let this topic die on the thread.

[adamuptownsj]

I'm sorry this is a crazy conversation. No city in NB will give up its airport. None of them are close to EOL. Moncton has a lot invested in freight, especially refrigerated, and is building out multiple industrial parks at great speed in the vicinity of the airport. Fredericton is the provincial capital. Saint John's is the weakest but it's not semi-abandoned like Bathurst by any means. Spending billions on an airport in Sussex would piss off all three cities and their respective tax bases. Would the quiet dairy town even want a giant airport dominating it?

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The only way this idea would work is if we centralize the population of the big three cities in Sussex as well.

All those in favour of mass forced migration say "aye."

As someone who owns a small apartment building in Sussex, by all means, please drive up the housing demand

[J81]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think for the situation to change significantly the Maritimes would have to operate more like Ontario and GO Transit, buying and building new infrastructure and operating their own trains rather than waiting around for CN and VIA and buy-in from people who are a thousand km away. I don't think it's as challenging in the Maritimes since a lot of land is unused and there aren't any real mountains. In some cases CN does not even fully develop their own corridors and they have the space for 2 tracks but they pulled one up. It is a bit of a bizarre situation where there are always threats of degrading services ostensibly due to low use but whenever somebody wants to use it more they're told there's too much contention so it's out of the question.

There is a commuter rail line around here that is operated by the local transit agency and they negotiated use of a CP line in the 90's. There would not be a maglev route running around the Maritimes but in Europe there are lots of smaller routes rated for 200 km/h or more. It does not require exotic technology, but it does require upgrades beyond 19th century standards. This could be done by gradually building parallel infrastructure not owned by CN or CP. The airports are interesting destinations for this since there's a lot of open space around them.

The maritimes have some of the hilliest terrain in eastern Canada. There is hardly a flat stretch of track between St Andre junction and Halifax. Mountainous terrain is extremely expensive to build a railroad through. So building any new infrastructure ( ie: lines ) would be prohibitively expensive for a population like we have in the Maritimes. However, as you mentioned, there are a large number of locations along the mainlines here that used to have a siding where trains could meet that got ripped up as the years went on and the number of trains decreased. There used to be a passing track every 5-6 miles. Some of these could be rebuilt to make meets between trains easier. The Moncton Airport already has access to rail as the Dieppe Spur passes right in front of it.

If any improvements are going to be made to passenger rail service in the maritimes its going to have to be a public private partnership where all levels are on board toward a common goal. We just dont have that here. Yet.

[MonctonRad]

From the Canada section:

Originally Posted by Dominion301

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we...d-commitment-to-st-john-s-807910283.html

YYT-YYC, YQM-YYC going year-round 2x weekly in winter.

YYT-MCO and YYT-TPA reinstated weekly winter seasonal.

That's right - Moncton/Calgary via WestJet is going year-round!!!

And, it is apparently going to be daily next summer (currently 6x weekly)