The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Announcement made. Douglas Ave. What a terrible mistake.

Completely agreed, HUGE lost opportunity for the City and the province. I don't see a price tag mentioned, was there one?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

I agree with the previous comment. Douglas Ave. is not part of the Uptown core. But I highly doubt that there will be a secondary exhibit site. That has never been mentioned by the Museum board and I doubt that there will be any money available after the main project is completed.

I'm afraid you are probably right and it's a real shame. A waterfront exhibit hall featuring ship building and all aspects of New Brunswick's maritime heritage would be a natural fit if the museum itself can't be there.

An iconic, architecturally significant building on Long Wharf facing south and welcoming the 100's of thousands of visitors annually as they sailed into SJ would have been another winner of a location.

At least the architects they hired have a strong track record and hopefully what results will be decent. Although, incorporating a classic building into a new build addition is never easy or without controversy. Remember the multi year fight over the Chateau Laurier expansion. Four different redesigns? Oh well, if it's hideous at least it will be hidden away off the beaten path.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Completely agreed, HUGE lost opportunity for the City and the province. I don't see a price tag mentioned, was there one?

I don't remember but i think their budget was like 120?

[adamuptownsj]

Douglas Avenue isn't uptown, but it's definitely central. It's a five minute drive or a twenty minute walk along the water. For perspective, my leisurely daily stroll from Orange and Crown to the City Market is fourteen minutes. The 'core' described above could be sprinted across in two minutes.

Not the best, but not the worst. Just glad to see this building avoid the wrecking ball. If timelines aligned I would have liked to see it where Prince Charles is. Would have been a good shot in the arm for Union.

[cdnguys]

Now that the site is chosen, no sense hashing over the negatives of it, it won’t change a thing. Let’s look at the positives :

- the historic facade will be saved
- because of $120m budget, limits of lot size, and portfolio of the designer, we’ll most likely see an iconic building towering over existing building most likely with extensive use of glass. This will be visible from uptown/King’s square
- breathe more life into that area

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Douglas Avenue isn't uptown, but it's definitely central. It's a five minute drive or a twenty minute walk along the water. For perspective, my leisurely daily stroll from Orange and Crown to the City Market is fourteen minutes. The 'core' described above could be sprinted across in two minutes.

Not the best, but not the worst. Just glad to see this building avoid the wrecking ball. If timelines aligned I would have liked to see it where Prince Charles is. Would have been a good shot in the arm for Union.

15 minute walk from MS.

8 minute bike ride from MS (rentals available)

6-10 minute e-scooter/bike ride from MS (rentals available)

Stretch golf carts could be used for older passengers (about 10 minutes)...

This isn't exactly a boring commute either with lots to see and do along the way (new public wharf, Fort La Tour, Brunswicker, several lookouts/points of interest.

[sailor734]

I wonder if they will actually incorporate the existing structure and put an extension on the 5 lots they are buying next door or if it will come down and just parts of the old sandstone façade will be used on an entirely new building?
The latter might be easier to pull off from an esthetic POV.

[UptownJeff]

I actually like the location. From what I understand it will form a hub with a revitalization of Main Street as well as a transformed old north end and Indian town. Now, not sure any of us will live long enough to see this but that’s what I’ve been told.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I actually like the location. From what I understand it will form a hub with a revitalization of Main Street as well as a transformed old north end and Indian town. Now, not sure any of us will live long enough to see this but that’s what I’ve been told.

Sorry, but I really think that's pretty "pie in the sky" type thinking. Saint John is small enough and poor enough that spreading very limited development dollars around really dilutes their effect.

I think we get more bang for the buck if we would focus on creating a vibrant city centre with public buildings, street level boutiques, dining/ entertainment and a mix of residential options (townhouses, heritage apartments, loft conversions and new construction)

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Sorry, but I really think that's pretty "pie in the sky" type thinking. Saint John is small enough and poor enough that spreading very limited development dollars around really dilutes their effect.

I think we get more bang for the buck if we would focus on creating a vibrant city centre with public buildings, street level boutiques, dining/ entertainment and a mix of residential options (townhouses, heritage apartments, loft conversions and new construction)

Isn’t that already what Uptown is and has? I know everyone on here likes to be down about a couple of big projects, but Uptown is the best it has been in my lifetime, and definitely since I moved from Rothesay to the Uptown in 2006.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Isn’t that already what Uptown is and has? I know everyone on here likes to be down about a couple of big projects, but Uptown is the best it has been in my lifetime, and definitely since I moved from Rothesay to the Uptown in 2006.

I'd say it's a work in progress. Much better than it was but still lots of room for improvement. In some ways Uptown has kind of been plateaued since the big developments of the late 70's early 80's (Brunswick Sq, Market Sq, Hilton, Trade and Convention Centre etc) Although, the residential situation has developed greatly in recent years. As to the bar/restaurant scene it's been relative steady to my mind as popular spots come and go.

[JakeNB]

If you consider that Market Square and Brunswick Square are the core of Uptown, it would be hard to say that they have improved in the past 20 years. There is much to applaud, but there is also the reality that much needs to improve. Locating the Museum away from the Uptown does nothing to assist in my opinion.

[JakeNB]

I would also add that in the last number of years the City Market has also been in a gradual state of decline. I hate to see all this; I work uptown and would enjoy walking through the bustling pedway system and having lunch at the Market regularly. Really, that whole side of King from the top of the Market to the Hilton is in serious need of rejuvenation.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

I would also add that in the last number of years the City Market has also been in a gradual state of decline. I hate to see all this; I work uptown and would enjoy walking through the bustling pedway system and having lunch at the Market regularly. Really, that whole side of King from the top of the Market to the Hilton is in serious need of rejuvenation.

Agree about the Market..... it's a shadow of it's former self.

As for Brunswick Square, it was actually an interesting and quite novel place in the 80's/90's. AFAIK the idea of a urban mall with mostly independent local boutiques and very few chain stores was quite new at the time. That seemed to work quite well until new management drove so many away.

Back in the 90's/early 2000's going uptown was a regular Saturday morning thing for us. My wife had 3-4 clothing stores and a shoe store she liked in the mall, we'd browse the book store together, hit the market for meat, cheese, produce and baked goods and then we'd have a late brunch at Reggie's.

Uptown was always busy on a Saturday morning, especially from September to Christmas.

It seems to me that the late 70's through to the 90's were the golden age for uptown development, We built the the Delta, the mall and the office tower at Brunswick Square, Market Square including the Trade and Convention centre and the Hilton, York Point, The Aquatic Centre, Harbour Station, the Imperial Theatre, Market renovations and the pedway system.

It seems like the last 20-25 years is where things have fallen by the wayside.

[sailor734]

Article in the TJ....The town of Shediac (pop 7,500) has had more construction (dollar value) this year to date than SJ

Moncton is sitting at about 300% of Saint John's total to date.........

[JakeNB]

Thats because transformers are not available in Saint John according to Percy. Not sure what Elias’ excuse is.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Thats because transformers are not available in Saint John according to Percy. Not sure what Elias’ excuse is.

Now that made me laugh! We have a “developer” in way over his head and a city with no guts.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Article in the TJ....The town of Shediac (pop 7,500) has had more construction (dollar value) this year to date than SJ

Moncton is sitting at about 300% of Saint John's total to date.........

Doing 1/3 of Moncton is actually pretty good! It’s not a story of Saint John doing poorly, rather Moncton doing awesome.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Doing 1/3 of Moncton is actually pretty good! It’s not a story of Saint John doing poorly, rather Moncton doing awesome.

And especially Shediac.

As an outside opinion, I think there are danger signals in uptown SJ. I say this lovingly, as I truly wish you guys the best. NB succeeds when all three big cities succeed. We are all in this together!

- Something must be done with Percy's Hole. This is a blight on King Street. This is an anchor property for the uptown area, located across the street from King's Square. If Percy is in over his head, then a new developer must be found.
- What precisely is the hold-up on the old coast guard site? There should be foundation work beginning on the first tower by now. Is Elias undercapitalized too? This development is important for the entire waterfront district and will redefine the uptown peninsula. It cannot be allowed to remain fallow for years.
- A solution must be found for Brunswick Square. It is essentially vacant now, whereas 10 years ago it was still a vibrant downtown mall. I know that enclosed shopping centres are passe now, but Brunswick Square has fallen far faster and far harder than necessary. Somebody really dropped the ball here. Does nobody have any idea how this space could be redeveloped.

The uptown is resilient enough to survive one or two of these challenges concurrently, but all three at the same time is a bit much. Where is city council? Is there any civic leadership on these files at all???

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

- What precisely is the hold-up on the old coast guard site? There should be foundation work beginning on the first tower by now. Is Elias undercapitalized too? This development is important for the entire waterfront district and will redefine the uptown peninsula. It cannot be allowed to remain fallow for years.

A city official said recently in an article that the city still hasn't turned the site over to the developer. The city is finishing up their preparations of the property. He said he anticipates the site turnover to happen by the end of July.

We shall see