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[NYguy]

https://commercialobserver.com/2023/07/m...remain-above-penn-station-but-at-a-cost/

Madison Square Garden Could Remain Above Penn Station, But at a Cost


BY MARK HALLUM
JULY 10, 2023

Madison Square Garden (MSG) will have to jump through some hoops if it wants to stay in Midtown.

The Department of City Planning will vote this week on whether to renew MSG’s special permit to remain on top of Pennsylvania Station. Even if the permit is approved, it will come with a host of obligations for the arena that will require it to add public improvements and help facilitate Penn Station’s rebuild.

The special permit also includes a text amendment requiring improved pedestrian circulation, public space, an improved truck loading facility and a contingent that will require MSG return to DCP to prove that the 25,000-seat venue will be compatible with Penn Station once the design phase is 30 percent complete.

DCP is scheduled to vote Wednesday on Commissioner Dan Garodnick’s recommendation to grant the special permit and the text amendment, after which it will go before the New York City Council for passage. As of Monday afternoon, the agency was still ironing out how long the renewal would last.

”We know that there are a number of plans being considered, but it is DCP’s view that New Yorkers cannot wait for those plans for Penn Station to be finalized in order to benefit from these significant improvements to the area around MSG,” Garodnick said Monday. “There are a number of ambitious proposals for the future of Penn Station, which are intertwined with the operations of MSG … and MSG has committed to collaborating with them. But we won’t just take them at their word.”

MSG officials will need to present their traffic management and public improvement plans to DCP in six months. If it misses the deadline or the proposals aren’t up to snuff, the Garden could be considered in “violation of the special permit,” according to Garodnick.

The venue did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but DCP said MSG already agreed to the amendments in writing.

[TonyNYC]

Originally Posted by NYguy

https://commercialobserver.com/2023/07/m...remain-above-penn-station-but-at-a-cost/

Madison Square Garden Could Remain Above Penn Station, But at a Cost


BY MARK HALLUM
JULY 10, 2023

Power play by the DCP for MSG to give concessions to the Penn Station rebuild..

possibly pushing for MSG to give up the theatre which would open up the 8th Avenue entrance to the train hall.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by TonyNYC

Power play by the DCP for MSG to give concessions to the Penn Station rebuild..

possibly pushing for MSG to give up the theatre which would open up the 8th Avenue entrance to the train hall.

I don’t think the theater is involved at this point. This is the permit that has been moving through the approvals process, along with the amendment. It doesn’t require a removal, but does call for improvements. The MTA itself isn’t calling for a theater removal because it doesn’t affect their overall plan for improvements. I think the Dolans and MSG actually would prefer the other plan, which is more MSGcentric, and removes the theater. (And of course, the payday).

I think it’s a wasted oppurtunity to not rebuild MSG now while all the construction is going on. Then we could really get a more unified design.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/msg-could-score-500m-if-plan-to-update-penn-station-is-approved/

MSG could score $500M if Italian firm’s plan to update Penn Station is approved


By Nolan Hicks
July 11, 2023

The Italian firm pitching a controversial plan as part of Penn Station’s reconstruction netted assistance from the owners of Madison Square Garden, which could score MSG a half-billion dollar payout, records show.

The plan offered by ASTM Group, a major player in global infrastructure, would require buying MSG’s Hulu Theater from the complex’s owner, James Dolan, before demolishing it to make room for the firm’s proposed new grand train hall on 8th Avenue.

ASTM expects roughly $500 million to purchase the theater from the billionaire owner of the New York Knicks and Rangers, according to briefing materials provided to reporters.

Internally, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials view ASTM as a foil for Dolan — which a source close to MSG denies.

“Recognizing that the decision on which plan goes forward is not ours to make, we look forward to collaborating with all key stakeholders on improving Penn Station,” said an MSG spokeswoman in a statement.

MSG acknowledged offering assistance in filings made with the City Planning Commission, though ASTM is not explicitly named.

Both plans would consolidate Penn Station’s split levels into a single concourse, allowing designers and engineers to install vastly higher ceilings and wider passageways.

The fight centers on the location of the new train hall.

Instead of facing 8th Avenue, Lieber wants a dramatic hall between 7th and 8th Avenues with vaulted ceilings stretching roughly 100 feet into the sky, bringing sunlight into the complex for the first time since the original Penn Station was demolished in the 1960s.

The MTA would find the space by ripping out the skybridge that links MSG to the neighboring office building, 2 Penn Plaza.

MSG has pushed back hard, arguing that removing the skybridge would mean relocating key utilities — including its cooling systems — and could interrupt the operations of the arena. The MTA has dismissed those worries and countered that demolishing the Hulu Theater would also be complicated.

The MTA estimates its plan would cost $7 billion. ASTM claims it could get the construction done for $1 billion less.

But the firm is pitching the improvements as part of a larger 50-year deal to operate the station that would cost the MTA, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak a combined $250 million annually — $12.5 billion overall.

“It was a no-brainer for ASTM North America to take up the open offer to retain engineering experts with incomparable knowledge of Penn Station and its connection to MSG at our own cost,” said a spokesman for ASTM, “which is why we can offer a more detailed, robust proposal that can be delivered faster and cheaper.

[NYguy]

MSG and Motnihan the past couple of weeks…

[NYguy]

ASTM presented their proposal to CB5....

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2023/07/18/ex-mta-chief-pat-foye-may-have-violated-ethics-laws-watchdogs/

Ex-MTA chief Pat Foye may have violated ethics laws with Penn Station, MSG contract: watchdogs


By Nolan Hicks
July 18, 2023

New York’s ex-transit chief may have violated state ethics laws by leading a $12.5 billion bid to reconstruct and operate Penn Station, government watchdogs say.

Pat Foye, the former MTA chairman, now consults for Italian transportation conglomerate ASTM, which has jumped into the design competition with a plan that would net Madison Square Garden a $500 million payout, a proposal that the arena helped along by providing engineering assistance.

“He was a powerful person in a very powerful position in state government, now he’s on the outside trying to help his new employer get business with the state,” said Blair Horner, the head of the good government watchdog New York Public Interest Research Group.

Horner and two other ethics experts said that Foye’s activities appeared to run afoul of conflict-of-interest protections unless the ex-MTA honcho obtained a waiver from the state’s ethics enforcer or the Commission on Ethics and Lobbying in Government.

Representatives for Foye refused to say if he obtained a waiver and argued the rules did not apply because the MTA does not technically own Penn Station.

“Any suggestion that he has violated ethical standards is at war with facts and the law as we know them,” said Foye’s attorney, William Wachtel.

“Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, and as such, any revitalization plans will be determined by Amtrak in partnership with New York, New Jersey, and the federal government,” he added.

Federal records show the MTA is leading the charge on Penn’s reconstruction in partnership with Amtrak and NJ Transit, putting Foye’s former agency at the heart of the fight.

“Given that Penn Station’s redesign is being led by the MTA, a state authority, the state’s ethics commission is the appropriate body to give guidance about the state’s revolving door rules for ongoing work on this major project,” said Rachael Fauss, a top expert on government contracting at the watchdog group, Reinvent Albany.

[NYguy]

https://citylimits.org/2023/07/18/opinion-a-critical-point-for-penn-stations-future/

Opinion: A Critical Point for Penn Station’s Future


By Charles Lauster.
July 18, 2023

Charles Lauster is an architect in New York City.

The New York Metropolitan Area is over 4,000 square miles in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut and is home to 20 million people. Its 2020 Gross Domestic Product was over $1.8 trillion dollars, the most of any metro area in the country. To maximize the productive potential of those 20 million and to provide them with world-class, sustainable transit, a modern rail system needs to knit the entire region together.

The two key points for such a rail transit system are Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station. Those two stations were the dead ends of the private railroads that collapsed in the mid-20th century. If they are linked for through-traffic, the entire Metropolitan Area can be served by the existing Long Island, Metro North and New Jersey Transit commuter lines.

The new Grand Central Madison station (formally the East Side Access) brings the LIRR to Grand Central Terminal and creates the possibility to reach Penn Station. That new station has four tracks that today continue five blocks south of 42nd Street for cleaning and servicing purposes. Extend those tracks another four blocks and one-seat through-traffic from New Jersey through Penn Station to Grand Central Madison, and on to the Metro North and Long Island systems, becomes possible.

With this year’s opening of the Grand Central Madison station, Grand Central Terminal is almost ready for regional operation. Penn Station is utterly unready. In fact, it is a potential wreck.

Penn Station serves 600,000 passengers daily and is America’s busiest rail hub. Today it is at capacity. What is overwhelmingly most important in a train station is not the appearance of its waiting room but its tracks and platforms. The tracks move the trains and the platforms move the passengers. The 21 tracks and 11 platforms in Penn Station today are the most that it can accommodate.

Worse, the platforms, mostly dating from 1910, are too narrow to handle arriving and departing passengers at the same time. The platforms need to be emptied of arrivals before the waiting passengers can be allowed to descend to the trains. Not only are the platforms too narrow, they are obstructed by the many concrete columns supporting Madison Square Garden. The intense crowding then restricts the movement of the trains.

The tracks themselves are also in crisis. In 2012, Hurricane Sandy did serious damage to the only two tunnels connecting the station with New Jersey. The tracks in each tunnel carry both Amtrak and New Jersey Transit trains. If they failed it would be a catastrophe for the entire northeast. The Gateway program to build two new tunnels began construction this year, but there is currently no space for the new tracks and platforms the new tunnels will bring to the station.

Finally, there is the need to rebuild tracks and platforms to take advantage of the connection of Penn Station with Grand Central Madison and the creation of through-traffic. As originally built over 100 years ago, both stations were terminal stations. Trains enter the station on a track and reverse to leave on the same track. This results in congestion as incoming and outgoing trains intersect at the station entrance. Through-tracks greatly reduce congestion and increase capacity as trains enter the station on one side of the station and then depart continuing in the same direction to the exit on the opposite side. Also, the platforms serving the tracks are wider, allowing passengers to leave on one side of the train while boarding riders enter on the opposite side. Through-service means that the current requirement of switching commuter lines to travel the region can be greatly reduced.

The currently discussed design to bring light into the waiting platform proposed by the European engineering firm ASTM does nothing to address either the platform or track issues, let alone through-service to the region. The plan involves removing the theater at MSG facing 8th Avenue and opening a glazed perimeter around the existing Garden. While it would allow passengers exiting to both 7th and 8th Avenues, the main orientation would be to 8th Avenue, not where most commuters are heading.

More problematic, as current renderings show, a southern extension of the station to accommodate new tracks and platforms would appear to be cut off. In short, the scheme would merely make waiting to get down to your train on a 113-year-old platform a bit more pleasant while making serious modernization far more difficult.

[Sky88]

I wonder then how would Charles Lauster propose to solve the problem?

Maybe the new tunels could be four-track.

NYguy, I think your idea of building a new MSG on top of a new Penn Station might work at this point. The new MSG could be square in shape and therefore there would be fewer concrete columns obstructing the station platforms.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by Sky88

I wonder then how would Charles Lauster propose to solve the problem?

Maybe the new tunels could be four-track.

NYguy, I think your idea of building a new MSG on top of a new Penn Station might work at this point. The new MSG could be square in shape and therefore there would be fewer concrete columns obstructing the station platforms.

I wouldn't want the tunnel project to take any longer than it's taking. Changing that project in any way would mean delays and increased expenses and risk cancelation under different administrations.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by NYguy

ASTM presented their proposal to CB5....

This looks. Horrible.

[Xing Lin]

My rendering of the Vornado sites of the Empire Station Complex/Penn District (sites 4-7, from left to right):

Original photo by John Seb Barber (CC BY 2.0)

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JManc

This looks. Horrible.

It does. And it looks like they just moved the blank wall to another location. Makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Xing Lin

My rendering of the Vornado sites of the Empire Station Complex/Penn District (sites 4-7, from left to right):

Original photo by John Seb Barber (CC BY 2.0)

Nice!

Shown here, more from Vornado, though not with updated skyline....

[NYguy]

JULY 23, 2023


Site 5...There is supposed to be a pizza restaurant opening in the former Modell's space...

[Xing Lin]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Nice!

Shown here, more from Vornado, though not with updated skyline....

Thank you!

Another aerial rendering I've made of the Penn District:

Photograph by Anthony Quintano (CC BY 2.0)
Compared to the official video with a similar view:

[Charmy2]

I am really starting to come around on this project. I hope to see all the towers get built. Also amazing renders!

[NYguy]

Meanwhile, residential trickles jnto the Penn District…..


https://rew-online.com/300-west-30th-street-announces-building-sellout-in-only-nine-months/

300 West 30Th Street Announces Building Sellout in Only Nine Months


by REW
July 25, 2023

300 West 30th Street, featuring luxurious new condominium residences in The Penn District, is sold out after only nine months. The development was the fastest in Manhattan to reach 100% sold in the past year, measured by number of units sold.

300 West 30th Street features 69 new condominium residences with interior design by Workshop/APD in the Penn District neighborhood at the crossroads of Midtown, Hudson Yards, and Chelsea. The area continues to evolve with new restaurants and cultural events at Hudson Yards, and the opening of Two Manhattan West and the High Line extension on 30th Street this Spring

Residences feature luxurious and efficient design by Workshop/APD with custom kitchens, high-quality Miele appliances, and elegant materials, textures, and finishes throughout the residences that call to mind the aesthetic of a boutique hotel. Workshop/APD also designed the lobby and amenities, which include a sleek gym, a lounge and co-working space that can be separated for privacy or expanded for entertaining, and an adjacent outdoor courtyard with lounge areas, manicured plantings, a grill, and a fire pit. Residents also have access to the open-air Sky Terrace on the 12th floor, with dramatic views of the Empire State Building, Manhattan West, Hudson Yards, and the midtown skyline.

“We saw great velocity from our first days on the market in November,” said John Felicetti, Vice President of Corcoran New Development. “Our sales team knew how to tell the story of The Penn District while building relationships with buyers and brokers. Hiwin delivered a product that exceeded expectations. 300 West 30th Street is an undisputed success story of the new development market in 2023.”

“We are thrilled to welcome residents home to 300 West 30th Street to live in one of the most sought-after buildings in New York City, with elevated design and amenities that truly resonated with our buyers,” says Aleksey Gavrilov of the Gavrilov Grosso Team at The Corcoran Group, which sold out the property with Corcoran New Development. Joseph Grosso added, “The success of 300 West 30th Street is a testament to the resilience and enduring appeal for the condominium market in Manhattan, especially in the thriving, central Penn District.”

I wonder if this will lead Vornado to move up the timeline on its residential tower.

[NYguy]

Vornado has been very pleased with the success and rewards of 220 CPS by Stern. I was thinking, if they do decide to go residential on the Manhattan Mall site (a huge possibility), they could bring in Stern and go higher than 15 Penn, to blunt the impact of 15 Penn on the Empire State.

If they go residential, it was stated they would build a tower over the existing building. Stern could design something really nice there. Even at a lesser height though, it would blunt the impact more than another glass tower.

[NYguy]

I’ve been saying this the whole time, but now maybe the media will begin to report on it more accurately…


https://www.crainsnewyork.com/real-estat...ion-plan-isnt-dead-yet-state-lawyer-says

Vornado's Penn Station plan isn't dead yet, state lawyer says

AARON ELSTEIN
July 31, 2023

Late last month, Gov. Kathy Hochul said the state is no longer tying its plans to rebuild Penn Station to a plan by Vornado Realty Trust to develop towers around it. But that may not mean the ambitious project is dead.

An attorney for the Hochul administration told a state judge last week it’s “completely untrue” that the plan to build towers around the station is kaput.

“The project has not been abandoned. Nothing has changed,” the attorney, Philip Karmel, told Judge Lucy Billings at a hearing last Wednesday in New York State Supreme Court, according to notes taken by Layla Law-Gisiko, chair of the land use committee for Community Board 5.

A second attorney at the hearing confirmed the remarks, which Karmel made when arguing against a lawsuit filed by the Penn Community Defense Fund, the City Club of New York and others.

The plaintiffs accuse Empire State Development, the state’s economic development arm, of being unduly influenced by Vornado when assembling its reconstruction plan, which envisions paying for a new Penn Station by harvesting the tax revenue produced from 10 new supertall towers in the neighborhood.

Vornado said last year the Penn project is stalled, and in light of that characterization, Hochul said last month she was “decoupling” new development from the more urgent goal of rebuilding the underground station, which serves about 600,000 commuters per day. Hochul said she would “entertain all concepts,” including an offer from private equity firm ASTM to pay for the estimated $7 billion reconstruction project in exchange for managing Penn Station for 50 years.

Although the governor seems to have moved on, her words don’t necessarily mean the state’s project with Vornado is dead, Karmel said in a July 21 court filing.

“Even if it were the case that the governor had announced major changes to the project,” the document reads, “such an announcement would not provide a basis to vacate” the project.

Richard Emery, an attorney for the plaintiffs, said the state’s legal argument overlooks the fact that the office market is quite different than only a few years ago.

“I don’t see how the state can argue nothing has changed when clearly everything has changed,” he said.

A spokeswoman for Empire State Development didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Vornado officials are expected to offer their thoughts on the matter Tuesday, when Chief Executive Steven Roth holds his regular quarterly earnings call with Wall Street analysts.

In addition to the Penn Station project, a key question for Vornado is whether occupancy rates continue to fall in its office buildings. SL Green Realty, the city’s largest commercial landlord, reported continued declines in occupancy for the second quarter. But the Empire State Building’s owner said occupancy and leasing rates edged up last quarter. The landlord’s older Midtown office spaces are generally cheaper to rent than SL Green or Vornado properties.

[mrnyc]

train daddy doesn’t hold back on penn plans —



Months into new job at Amtrak, Andy Byford blasts boss’s Penn Station plans


…

“It’s not just about building something that’s more aesthetically pleasing — important as though that is, Penn Station is kind of an embarrassment — but you can’t fix it by just putting in a few light boxes, by just heightening the ceilings, by just widening a few corridors,” Byford said.

Byford also argued that expanding Penn Station a block south would not be necessary if the train hub employed “through-running,” or consolidated NJ Transit and Long Island Rail Road service so each railroad wouldn’t need to stop and turn around after reaching Midtown.

“Why not take the opportunity to fix the damn thing once and for all, which is, I’m going to say: get rid of the pillars, which means move MSG, but at the very least, do something with the track configuration to enable through-running,” Byford said.



more:
https://gothamist.com/news/months-into-n...y-byford-blasts-bosss-penn-station-plans