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  #1321  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2023, 4:30 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post

Edit: Actually if you look at the numbers, Austin is still nowhere close to being as expensive as the Bay. Even though Austin might be in the top 10, it's still not in the same tier for cost of living.
Yes.

While Austin may have a larger than average upper bracket, it's median sale price is still MUCH closer to "regular America" than it is to the bay area's stratospheric median sale price.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 14, 2023 at 5:27 PM.
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  #1322  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2023, 4:33 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Speaking of the west, have you seen Jackson County, WY lately?
How about a plain boring 1500 square foot home in a trailer park on the edge of town? That will be $1.5 million:
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom...WY_83001_M82684-41800?from=srp-list-card

Or a 1970's 1200 square foot suburban townhouse? $1.497 million obviously:
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom...WY_83001_M85816-58500?from=srp-list-card
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  #1323  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2023, 4:43 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Yeah, Jackson Hole is insanity. I'm not much of a skiier, and the local scenery doesn't do much for me (it's very dry and dusty, no Dolemites, no Coastal Ranges, nothing remotely like Switzerland). But people really seem to like it. I attended a wedding there and it was insanely expensive The town is really boring. A random town of 20k in Upstate NY or New England would be more interesting, to me.
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  #1324  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2023, 4:03 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Yeah, Jackson Hole is insanity. I'm not much of a skiier, and the local scenery doesn't do much for me (it's very dry and dusty, no Dolemites, no Coastal Ranges, nothing remotely like Switzerland). But people really seem to like it. I attended a wedding there and it was insanely expensive The town is really boring. A random town of 20k in Upstate NY or New England would be more interesting, to me.
But Jackson Hole is right next to the Tetons, which may be the closest thing the U.S. has to the Dolemites. Maybe it was overcast or foggy when you were there and you didn't see the adjacent mountains?
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  #1325  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2023, 11:16 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Austin's competitive advantage had been cost relative to bigger coastal metros... but it doesn't have that advantage anymore.
Exactly: the reason Austin is so expensive (such high demand), is because it’s cheap
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  #1326  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2023, 3:23 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Exactly: the reason Austin is so expensive (such high demand), is because it’s cheap
Well it is expensive because the demand is outstripping supply. But Austin is not very dense overall. It is still quite a bit less dense than present day Detroit, but it is already mostly built out. The high price could be a signal that the market is converting less dense housing into higher density, which seems to be backed up by this:

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Austin had the hottest multifamily construction activity in the country, counting 61,873 units underway as of May 2023, taking the first spot from fellow Texas metro Dallas by just 1,341 units. In addition, the metro had more than 106,000 units in the planning and permitting stages. Austin developers are building larger communities compared to other metros in this ranking as, by number of properties under construction, the metro occupies only a third place, behind Dallas (229 properties) and Los Angeles (239 properties).

During the first four months of 2023, developers delivered 2,547 units in Austin, ranking fourth among the markets in this list, trailing Phoenix, Miami and Atlanta. The number of units that came online accounts for 3.5 percent of Austin’s existing multifamily stock, only behind Miami (3.8 percent), Atlanta (3.7 percent) and Phoenix (5.3 percent). In 2022, the metro’s multifamily inventory added 16,093 units (4.4 percent of total stock), behind Dallas and Houston.

In most metros, new construction starts dropped and Austin was no different. During the first quarter of 2023, 6,013 units (22 properties) broke ground in the metro, well below the 8,481 units (31 properties) that began construction during the same period in 2022.

https://www.multihousingnews.com/top-markets-for-multifamily-construction/
So Austin's prices make a little more sense in this context. Austin is a mostly built out, low density city that is transitioning into higher density. The prices seem a little more rational in that context, and are probably being driven by developers converting properties for higher density purposes.
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  #1327  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2023, 6:24 PM
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dktshb dktshb is offline
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Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
But Jackson Hole is right next to the Tetons, which may be the closest thing the U.S. has to the Dolemites. Maybe it was overcast or foggy when you were there and you didn't see the adjacent mountains?
Not justifying the price of the homes in the area and there are many more picturesque mountain towns in the American West, but this area is absolutely stunning and there is a never ending list of things to do. That is some crazy talk for the other forum member.
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  #1328  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2023, 8:47 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
No sidewalk, even.
No curbs.
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  #1329  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2023, 2:53 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by dktshb View Post
Not justifying the price of the homes in the area and there are many more picturesque mountain towns in the American West, but this area is absolutely stunning and there is a never ending list of things to do. That is some crazy talk for the other forum member.
What is there to do in Jackson Hole that's unique within the context of the American west? Skiing, mountains, and prairie. The town itself isn't special outside of the wealth. I'm not much of a skier, and I grew up near nicer mountains. Prairie doesn't interest me.
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  #1330  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2023, 2:42 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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For some reason the algorithm suggested this movie clip today. Apparently this was released in 2003...hard to believe that it's 20 years old. But I couldn't help but notice that they're making fun of the exact sort of house that is now worth well north of $500k in many parts of the United States:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va6nRaZ9eRg



I went to a lot of parties in this sort of house and lived in one for awhile, for the princely sum of $200/mo.
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  #1331  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2023, 3:16 PM
badrunner badrunner is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Yeah, Jackson Hole is insanity. I'm not much of a skiier, and the local scenery doesn't do much for me (it's very dry and dusty, no Dolemites, no Coastal Ranges, nothing remotely like Switzerland). But people really seem to like it. I attended a wedding there and it was insanely expensive The town is really boring. A random town of 20k in Upstate NY or New England would be more interesting, to me.
It's similar to other high-end small towns in the West. You should check home values in places like Vail, Aspen and Telluride. It's Coastal CA prices. It definitely has a niche appeal (and not just to skiers) - being away from it all in the mountains but still having a lot of the luxuries and high-end shopping and dining of the big city.
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  #1332  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2023, 4:59 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
What is there to do in Jackson Hole that's unique within the context of the American west? Skiing, mountains, and prairie. The town itself isn't special outside of the wealth. I'm not much of a skier, and I grew up near nicer mountains. Prairie doesn't interest me.
I thought you grew up in Michigan... what mountains are there?
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  #1333  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2023, 5:48 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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I thought you grew up in Michigan... what mountains are there?
Until middle school I lived in southern Germany, not too far from Switzerland.
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  #1334  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2023, 9:14 PM
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Redfin says Portland is somewhat competitive tho home prices have had zero percent growth over the last year. Wowee. Not to interrupt but Michigan sort of has mountains. The Porcupine mountains up north are considered the oldest mountains in America. But yeah they're pretty much hills. Good snow tho.
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  #1335  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2023, 1:06 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
What is there to do in Jackson Hole that's unique within the context of the American west? Skiing, mountains, and prairie. The town itself isn't special outside of the wealth. I'm not much of a skier, and I grew up near nicer mountains. Prairie doesn't interest me.
I'm used to seeing some less than friendly stuff from you regarding politics (and I'm usually with you) but this "mine" vs "yours" isn't very useful.
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  #1336  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 4:32 PM
38 Geary 38 Geary is offline
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Some of California’s ‘cheapest’ cities have seen biggest rent hikes
By BEN CHRISTOPHER | CALmatters
PUBLISHED: July 24, 2023 at 4:48 a.m.

Inland cities including Bakersfield, Fresno, Visalia and Riverside — once cheaper options than pricey places such as the Bay Area — are no longer places of refuge from California’s housing affordability crisis.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, the typical asking rent in these former bastions of relative affordability have exploded by as much as 40%, according to data from the real-estate listings company Zillow.

California’s inland rent spike is yet another lasting effect of the COVID-19 pandemic. Beginning in 2020, California’s dense metropolitan coast saw an outflux of people, as educated white-collar workers, suddenly untethered from the office, packed their bags in search of cheaper and more socially distanced modes of living.

For many smaller California towns, the surge of new residents competing for housing has placed new financial pressures on lower-income residents, upended local housing markets and, in some cases, shifted the politics around housing and affordability.

In Santa Maria, just an hour up the 101 from Santa Barbara, the last three years have been a “perfect storm” for renters, said Victor Honma, who oversees housing vouchers across the region for the Housing Authority of the County of Santa Barbara.

The town was awash in suburb-seeking homebuyers from Los Angeles, the Bay Area and nearby Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo. The suddenly hot housing market persuaded many longtime local property owners to sell their rentals to the wave of new homebuyers, reducing the rental stock further. And though Santa Maria had always had a “healthy supply of inventory,” said Honma, the available homes ran on the large side, leaving few one-bedroom units to go around for many suddenly desperate renters.

These trends were in the works prior to 2020, but “the pandemic was a stimulus,” he said.

It’s the same story in Bakersfield, where rents have jumped 39% since March 2020, as priced-out Angelenos migrated north of the Grapevine, said Stephen Pelz, executive director of the housing authority in Kern County.

Since then rising interest rates have cooled the national housing market. But Pelz said the higher cost of borrowing has only added to the woes of Kern County renters: Fewer people purchasing homes has meant more competition for the area’s remaining rental units.

...

According to Zillow’s seasonally adjusted “observed rent index” — a kind of gussied-up average that strips out exceptionally pricey or cheap outliers in a given market — the typical rent in the Fresno metropolitan used to be 54% cheaper than that in San Francisco. As of June 2023, that discount dropped to 40%.

Further south in Bakersfield, where renters used to pay roughly half of L.A. area tenants, on average, the difference has narrowed to 40%.

In part, that’s just a function of arithmetic. In both the Bakersfield and the Los Angeles metro areas, the typical rent increased by a little more than $500 since the beginning of the pandemic. Because Kern County rents were much lower to begin with, $500 represents a larger percentage hike.

...

Earlier this year, tenant rights and anti-poverty advocates mounted a campaign to push the city of Fresno to adopt a rent control ordinance. For a city whose most notable politico, Democratic U.S. Rep. Jim Costa, lent his name to a state law that restricts local governments for enacting or expanding rent control laws, it was a symbolic push.

Further south, activists in Delano were competing to see which town would be the first in the Central Valley to enact a permanent cap on rent hikes.

Neither campaign was successful. Fresno’s city council declined to include a rent stabilization program in its budget for this fiscal year and elected leaders in Delano agreed only to study the issue.

In Sacramento, many of these same advocacy organizations have been pushing a bill by state Sen. María Elena Durazo that would have, among other things, lowered a statewide cap on annual rent increases from 10% to a mere 5%. But that provision was stripped out, leaving only new rules that make it harder for landlords to evict tenants without cause.
https://www.siliconvalley.com/2023/07/24...cities-have-seen-the-biggest-rent-hikes/
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  #1337  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 4:40 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
Not to interrupt but Michigan sort of has mountains. The Porcupine mountains up north are considered the oldest mountains in America. But yeah they're pretty much hills. Good snow tho.
Although pretty, that part of Michigan might as well be on the moon for most Michiganders. It's a 9-10 hour drive from Detroit if you're really putting down some miles, and not on the way to anything else, either...which makes it pretty remote. That can be a great escape, but also a harder sell in terms of driving time. I lived in that state for over 30 years and I never made it there (although close a couple times). Only 5 hours from both Minneapolis and Milwaukee, though.
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  #1338  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 4:49 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Although pretty, that part of Michigan might as well be on the moon for most Michiganders. It's a 9-10 hour drive from Detroit if you're really putting down some miles, and not on the way to anything else, either...which makes it pretty remote. That can be a great escape, but also a harder sell in terms of driving time. I lived in that state for over 30 years and I never made it there (although close a couple times). Only 5 hours from both Minneapolis and Milwaukee, though.
Yeah, exactly. Detroit is closer to the Appalachians than it is to the "mountains" in the upper peninsula.
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  #1339  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 4:54 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
Redfin says Portland is somewhat competitive tho home prices have had zero percent growth over the last year. Wowee.
I know I'm not alone in this, but I am so annoyed with the real estate market right now. The median sale price of $544k is still well above what a median-income family of 4 can reasonably afford. $4 grand per month for PITI is not sustainable given how low pay is in the region.
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  #1340  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2023, 10:11 PM
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That mansion in the Hollywood Hills, Castillo del Lago, is for sale for $21 million. Madonna lived here for a few years in the 1990s.

From Zillow:

$21,000,000
9 bd
6 ba
10,513 sqft
6342 Mulholland Hwy, Los Angeles, CA 90068
Built in 1926













Click the link for more pics and info: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6342-...3ABX7Rz4lrjbbOo1gjENbDYYZhxJo2upZHGHUB-I
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