Planning underway for new commuter ferry between Bedford and Halifax

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I have to think that a BRT right of way along the 102 corridor would make far more sense and a move a lot more people to a lot more destinations.

That sounds complementary to me rather than either-or. The 102 corridor is a little over 2 km away. In a more developed city it would be fairly normal to have a commuter rail and a ferry. In Vancouver the West Coast Express commuter rail line connects up with the SkyTrain. Vancouver is of course a much larger metro area but that example is a smaller corridor with segments that are lower density than Bedford or Sackville.

In the long run a good transit system in Halifax would have many different modes and a lot of connectivity. I could see BRT, fast ferries, commuter/regional rail, and LRT or tram all being in the mix. Maybe even a gondola across the Northwest Arm.

[Keith P.]

But since we’re starting with nothing, a ferry that can carry a few hundred people an hour at peak times seems a poor investment given that magnitude of cost vs. what a BRT would cost per passenger.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Below are a few pics of the ferry I took across the Tagus River this past winter. It was a great ride for sure and apparently a well used piece of the overall very good public transit system in Lisbon which also has commuter rail, light rail/subway, trams and buses. Bus was never on time. Regarding ferries, there were at least four visible on the river at any time I looked. They run to two or three locations across the river to facilities that have light rail and buses and bars...yes, grab a glass of wine or a beer while you wait. None of the ferries ran up or down the same coast as is being planned here.

I wonder if, as a cost control measure, grade separated LRT beds and bridges could be prepared and paved and buses utlized until LRT equipment could be afforded. In the absence of a fully realized map of a future LRT system I'm skeptical that the current BRT routes would be of any use for a LRT route.

(my pics)
20230213_103917 by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

20230213_103932 by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

20230215_072039_HDR by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

[someone123]

I was in Lisbon a while ago and didn't take the ferry but their transportation system is interesting. They still have the old streetcars that look similar to pictures of Halifax's pre-1950 Birney cars. Their metro is so-so by European standards and I would not put it above Vancouver but decent overall.

It is a larger city than Halifax but not really wealthier and if Halifax had even 1/10 as much rapid transit infrastructure it would be a big upgrade. It would be as easy for Halifax to pay for 1 subway line as it was for many European cities to pay for their metro systems.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

But since we’re starting with nothing, a ferry that can carry a few hundred people an hour at peak times seems a poor investment given that magnitude of cost vs. what a BRT would cost per passenger.

However this kind of small thinking is what got us to where we are today, which is far behind where we should be.

[someone123]

It is easy to frame it in terms of what is better, BRT or commuter rail or a ferry, but actually Bedford has nothing right now and that is probably worse than any of the options. It's had no rapid transit during at least 20 years of debate now.

I find Halifax transit discussion often has a weird tone with projects being presented like make-or-break deals that will either solve or not solve regional transport issues or may destroy the municipal budget. In reality none of the projects being considered are of that scale.

[bartekci]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is easy to frame it in terms of what is better, BRT or commuter rail or a ferry, but actually Bedford has nothing right now and that is probably worse than any of the options. It's had no rapid transit during at least 20 years of debate now.

I find Halifax transit discussion often has a weird tone with projects being presented like make-or-break deals that will either solve or not solve regional transport issues or may destroy the municipal budget. In reality none of the projects being considered are of that scale.

Indeed. The exceptionalism involved in finding the single solution which will solve all of our woes is a quite exhausting. That said, I struggle with an expensive ferry that is likely to carry orders of magnitude less passengers than an appropriate BRT/LRT setup.

Although, I am one for optionality. Some people will just never take the bus (baked in ideas and attitudes that span generations), so having a ferry may not be a bad idea. If that means hundreds of people a day are not driving down the Bedford Highway, it is a huge win! Ferry is also novel, fun (at least when I use it once a month), and a relaxing ride relative to a bus, or even some street cars.

I don't know the costs, but that'd be my biggest concern in any implementation. If, for $300 million we can get thousands more off the road through BRT, it may be a much better investment than a ferry.

If we can do both and we have federal/provincial support, then let's build!

[OldDartmouthMark]

We can debate all day long whether a ferry system is good value for the cost. Meanwhile, our population continues to grow at unprecedented rates, and we have... buses.

Ferries will not use up road capacity, or rail capacity, so that reason alone should be enough to justify their implementation - extra capacity that you won't get any other way (our city is bounded by an ice-free harbour, by the way - may as well use it). We can still have buses, and hopefully, someday, rail (but don't hold your breath), but in the mean time we can build a decent ferry service, which as has been pointed out, provides benefits where it is being used in other parts of the world.

[Keith P.]

A ferry will never even come close to making a dent in the commuter traffic from Bedford. But hey, it's only several hundred million dollars.

This strikes me as an ego project that suddenly got the go-ahead out of desperation. I also find it very odd how it suddenly popped up out of nowhere with little discussion or debate. Something is fishy here.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I also find it very odd how it suddenly popped up out of nowhere with little discussion or debate. Something is fishy here.

It's been talked about for decades. It got sidelined for a while when Council went hard on rail, until that proved to be untenable. As soon as rail was ruled out HRM went right back to work on moving the ferry forward and now it's finally all coming together in a polished package. None of this is just "popped up".

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

It's been talked about for decades. It got sidelined for a while when Council went hard on rail, until that proved to be untenable. As soon as rail was ruled out HRM went right back to work on moving the ferry forward and now it's finally all coming together in a polished package. None of this is just "popped up".

Council went hard on rail? I recall a timid ask with no follow-up and a focus on commuter rail only.

[NorthernGreg]

Commuter rail, ferries and a stadium all lie in the same category to me. Decades of discussions with no actions. They're running out of "do-nothing" time

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by NorthernGreg

Commuter rail, ferries and a stadium all lie in the same category to me. Decades of discussions with no actions. They're running out of "do-nothing" time

A new Bridge or Tunnel will be built before anything on your list.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Council went hard on rail? I recall a timid ask with no follow-up and a focus on commuter rail only.

Agreed. Strong-arming CNR into going along with any commuter rail plan would require a tag team of both the city and the province, and even then, strong federal support will be necessary as well.

It will require lots of money, double (and possibly triple) tracking in the main ROW (including the rail cut), lots of threats to get CNR to buy into the enterprise, land expropriations, rock blasting, and a number of new suburban and exurban commuter stations with sufficient parking available for Park 'n Rides.

It will be like dirty sex, with lots of grunting, screaming, sweat and maybe a little blood, but, in the end it will be well worth the effort. Commuter rail will be far more efficacious in moving people around metro and into the downtown core than a couple of battery operated ferry boats.

Compared to what it will take to make this work, whatever HRM has already done in negotiations with CNR pales in comparison. Asking "pretty please" just does not cut it.............

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

It's been talked about for decades. It got sidelined for a while when Council went hard on rail, until that proved to be untenable. As soon as rail was ruled out HRM went right back to work on moving the ferry forward and now it's finally all coming together in a polished package. None of this is just "popped up".

Yes, it's been talked about ad nauseum, like lots of other things within the HRM govt. But usually when HRM decides to throw $200+ million tax dollars at some wall, there are lots of studies and consultants hired first, many bloviating speeches at Council, interviews on local news with councillors looking to take credit, analysis of the shortcomings by pundits and activists, stories in the local media featuring special interest groups who feel hard-done-by, etc etc. Here there was none of this. Has this even been at Council for a vote on funding? It seems to have come straight out of the blue.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Yes, it's been talked about ad nauseum, like lots of other things within the HRM govt. But usually when HRM decides to throw $200+ million tax dollars at some wall, there are lots of studies and consultants hired first, many bloviating speeches at Council, interviews on local news with councillors looking to take credit, analysis of the shortcomings by pundits and activists, stories in the local media featuring special interest groups who feel hard-done-by, etc etc. Here there was none of this. Has this even been at Council for a vote on funding? It seems to have come straight out of the blue.

I think the public is used to the hot air and doesn’t expect anything to come of it.

[q12]

Thanks to maxchristie, reposted from Halifax Transit thread:

Originally Posted by maxchristie

The Feds put out a media advisory for Monday. Looks like construction will get underway on the terminals soon.

Bedford, Nova Scotia, March 4, 2024 — Members of the media are invited to an infrastructure announcement related to the Mill Cove Ferry Service with Andy Fillmore, Member of Parliament for Halifax and Lena Metlege Diab, Member of Parliament for Halifax West, on behalf of the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities; Darren Fisher, Member of Parliament for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour, and Darrell Samson, Member of Parliament for Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook; the Honourable Timothy Halman, Minister of Environment and Climate Change, on behalf of Public Works Minister Kim Masland; Tim Outhit, Councillor for HRM District 16 (Bedford - Wentworth), and Dave Reage, Executive Director of Halifax Transit.

Date:
March 4, 2024

Time:
11:00 a.m. AST

Location:
Bedford Basin Yacht Club
377 Shore Drive, Bedford NS B4A 2C7
http://https://www.canada.ca/en/offi...n-halifax.html

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by q12

Thanks to maxchristie, reposted from Halifax Transit thread:

Mayoral Candidate Fillmore front and centre

[Dmajackson]

Councillor Outhit has a rendering on his Facebook profile. It looks decent for a government project.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Councillor Outhit has a rendering on his Facebook profile. It looks decent for a government project.

Thanks! Here it is, to save people from looking it up:



Source