West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by Horus

You would have to transfer to take the tram from Plateau to the Hospital. Your map shows that. That is the point I am poorly trying to make.

For the record, I don't consider that a bad thing. I also believe the Plateau line should be routed differently into Hull, rather than descend to Tache via Saint-Raymond, but that's a different discussion.

Unless your 'interlining' involved trains turning from green to red once they've reached the Ontario terminus, thus completing endless loops of the entire system?

[CanadaGoose]

This is bananas.

The Rapibus WILL SERVE the hospital.

This is just ridiculous ploy to delay a project even further.

[harls]

Plateau train or nothing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Is connection the hospital to Ottawa or downtown Hull a big priority? I know there will be other stops along the line but it seems really low use.

Connecting the new Gatineau hospital to Ottawa is not a priority but connecting the new hospital to other parts of Gatineau (east and west) definitely might be.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Connecting the new Gatineau hospital to Ottawa is not a priority but connecting the new hospital to other parts of Gatineau (east and west) definitely might be.

Maybe. Hospitals aren't really a key node for public transport. But converting the Rapibus to tram would make a one seat ride for almost nobody and allow a small number of people to transfer for a very long ride back to Aylmer or Plateau. That makes no sense. Most of this project makes no sense which is why it will likely never get built. As Goose says this is a distraction and delay tactic. $3 Billion to connect maybe 50,000 people to downtown Hull and Ottawa is pure insanity.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Maybe. Hospitals aren't really a key node for public transport. But converting the Rapibus to tram would make a one seat ride for almost nobody and allow a small number of people to transfer for a very long ride back to Aylmer or Plateau. That makes no sense. Most of this project makes no sense which is why it will likely never get built. As Goose says this is a distraction and delay tactic. $3 Billion to connect maybe 50,000 people to downtown Hull and Ottawa is pure insanity.

This is correct. Though this is not a transit optimization issue, but a social justice and accessibility issue.

I live not too far from the existing Gatineau hospital. There are always people at the bus stops there. Not tons but enough to know that transit access is essential for enough people.

[J.OT13]

The hospital will have good transit access with the RapiBus. It will provide more than enough capacity. No need to tear up a functional system.

The west has limited transit and road options, so something's gotta give. Yes, $3B seems insane to serve (more like 100k, not 50k), but we have to remember that if it would have been built at the same time as the Confederation Line, it might have been closer to $1B. Transit inflation is what's insane, but there are no other options.

[J.OT13]

STO wants Council to confirm its committment to the Tramway on Tuesday.
This is a chance for the Mayor to make it clear once and for all that she is in favour.

I expect she'll screw this up.

Une épreuve de force sur le tramway se dessine à Gatineau

Par Mathieu Bélanger, Le Droit
29 juin 2023

La mairesse de Gatineau, France Bélisle, aura l’occasion, la semaine prochaine, de confirmer son «adhésion sans équivoque» au projet de tramway porté par la Société de transport de l’Outaouais (STO). Elle pourrait ainsi mettre un terme aux signaux contradictoires sur la nature même du projet qu’elle a envoyés dans les derniers mois et qui retarderaient l’annonce du financement attendu pour la poursuite du projet.

Le conseil d’administration de la STO a adopté à l’unanimité, jeudi, une résolution demandant au conseil municipal de Gatineau de «reconnaître que le tramway est le seul mode de transport structurant pouvant répondre, à long terme, au besoin en mobilité durable de l’ouest de la ville». Le président de la STO, Jocelyn Blondin, a dit souhaiter que les élus se prononcent aussi rapidement que mardi prochain, lors de la dernière séance du conseil municipal avant les vacances. Il a dit avoir confiance en ses collègues et s’attend à recevoir un appui unanime...

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...e-a-gatineau-XQTG65NIHZHCZE7CEKH74PARQM/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The hospital will have good transit access with the RapiBus. It will provide more than enough capacity. No need to tear up a functional system.

The west has limited transit and road options, so something's gotta give. Yes, $3B seems insane to serve (more like 100k, not 50k), but we have to remember that if it would have been built at the same time as the Confederation Line, it might have been closer to $1B. Transit inflation is what's insane, but there are no other options.

Another option would be to extend the Rapibus BRT system to the western parts of the city.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another option would be to extend the Rapibus BRT system to the western parts of the city.

Rapibus works in the east end because it's mostly grade separated. Little to no interactions with cars. In the west, it would be street running, maybe Baseline BRT-lite style, which would greatly reduce capacity.

[tristanh3]

First post here, created an account just to share this but I have been following this thread for a while (couple of years atleast) since this project was first proposed. A leaked letter from the Mayor to the MTQ seems to indicate that she wants to not only reexamine the governance of the project (ie bring it under the city and not STO umbrella) but also rework its route, any thoughts about that? I’m thinking it might be because of the hospital but as has been pointed out by others it is directly on the Rapibus route so that doesn’t make sense. Is this a delay tactic?

Tramway de Gatineau: les demandes de la mairesse Bélisle
Par Mathieu Bélanger, Le Droit
|
3 juillet 2023

La mairesse de Gatineau, France Bélisle, a officiellement demandé au gouvernement du Québec, il y a un mois, de lui accorder le pouvoir de faire des modifications considérables, voire fondamentales au tracé, à la gouvernance et à la portée même du projet de tramway, a appris Le Droit.

Par le biais d’une lettre datée du 9 juin qu’elle signe seule, sans l’appui des autres membres du comité exécutif du projet de tramway, la mairesse Bélisle propose à la ministre des Transports du Québec, Geneviève Guilbault, une nouvelle «séquence de réalisation» qui permettrait à la Ville de «réaliser les ajustements nécessaires» au projet en vue d’une éventuelle présentation au conseil des ministres plus tard en 2024...

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...esse-belisle-QPTDRHITSFA73JZFOHECXFCAGI/

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by tristanh3

First post here, created an account just to share this but I have been following this thread for a while (couple of years atleast) since this project was first proposed. A leaked letter from the Mayor to the MTQ seems to indicate that she wants to not only reexamine the governance of the project (ie bring it under the city and not STO umbrella) but also rework its route, any thoughts about that? I’m thinking it might be because of the hospital but as has been pointed out by others it is directly on the Rapibus route so that doesn’t make sense. Is this a delay tactic?



https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...esse-belisle-QPTDRHITSFA73JZFOHECXFCAGI/

Very interesting! That's for that... and welcome to the forum!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Rapibus works in the east end because it's mostly grade separated. Little to no interactions with cars. In the west, it would be street running, maybe Baseline BRT-lite style, which would greatly reduce capacity.

The Rapibus actually has relatively few grade separations. The corridor is very predominantly served by level crossings.

Maloney-Gréber, A-5 and St-Louis I think are the only ones that aren't.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

STO wants Council to confirm its committment to the Tramway on Tuesday.
This is a chance for the Mayor to make it clear once and for all that she is in favour.

I expect she'll screw this up.

Originally Posted by tristanh3

First post here, created an account just to share this but I have been following this thread for a while (couple of years atleast) since this project was first proposed. A leaked letter from the Mayor to the MTQ seems to indicate that she wants to not only reexamine the governance of the project (ie bring it under the city and not STO umbrella) but also rework its route, any thoughts about that? I’m thinking it might be because of the hospital but as has been pointed out by others it is directly on the Rapibus route so that doesn’t make sense. Is this a delay tactic?



https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...esse-belisle-QPTDRHITSFA73JZFOHECXFCAGI/

She did, in fact, find a way to screw it up.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Rapibus actually has relatively few grade separations. The corridor is very predominantly served by level crossings.

Maloney-Gréber, A-5 and St-Louis I think are the only ones that aren't.

There's also Main!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by tristanh3

First post here, created an account just to share this but I have been following this thread for a while (couple of years atleast) since this project was first proposed. A leaked letter from the Mayor to the MTQ seems to indicate that she wants to not only reexamine the governance of the project (ie bring it under the city and not STO umbrella) but also rework its route, any thoughts about that? I’m thinking it might be because of the hospital but as has been pointed out by others it is directly on the Rapibus route so that doesn’t make sense. Is this a delay tactic?

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...esse-belisle-QPTDRHITSFA73JZFOHECXFCAGI/

Pretty much exactly what I expected. This seems entirely the reason why the Feds are holding off on an announcement.

Bélisle sis incapable of working with others. She tries to do things her way with no consultation at every turn. This is a text book power grab attempt.

What she still doesn't seem to understand is that this is a democracy. She is only one vote. If the project gets unanimous support, or close to it AGAIN today (?), we should push through to the next steps. Alas, the Feds have been quite flaky about the entire project from the very beginning, so I could see them pull support because one person, the Mayor, does not support the project (even though she was elected on a platform that did support it).

If she want this kind of power, she should run for Mayor in Ontario where the Strong Mayor system has been established.

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Rapibus actually has relatively few grade separations. The corridor is very predominantly served by level crossings.

Maloney-Gréber, A-5 and St-Louis I think are the only ones that aren't.

Should have said "dedicated right of way". There are a few level crossings, but they are few and far between as the busway runs along stroads with limited intersections. It will be decades before we see huge lineups of buses like we did in Ottawa because of the Central Transitway.

The route west will have far more intersections with Alexandre-Taché and within the centre of Aylmer, so higher capacity vehicles with a single route will be better than hundreds of buses on multiple routes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

There's also Main!

Oh true. Thanks.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Should have said "dedicated right of way". There are a few level crossings, but they are few and far between as the busway runs along stroads with limited intersections. It will be decades before we see huge lineups of buses like we did in Ottawa because of the Central Transitway.

The route west will have far more intersections with Alexandre-Taché and within the centre of Aylmer, so higher capacity vehicles with a single route will be better than hundreds of buses on multiple routes.

Yes, the Rapibus corridor is definitely a lower standard than the Transitway, which in addition to a dedicated right-of-way was almost entirely grade-separated in its true Transitway segments.

Not sure about what they could do in Plateau-Aylmer (Plateau looks easier than Taché-Aylmer-Principale at first glance) but a tramway will have similar challenges with multiple intersections at the exact same pressure points.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, the Rapibus corridor is definitely a lower standard than the Transitway, which in addition to a dedicated right-of-way was almost entirely grade-separated in its true Transitway segments.

Not sure about what they could do in Plateau-Aylmer (Plateau looks easier than Taché-Aylmer-Principale at first glance) but a tramway will have similar challenges with multiple intersections at the exact same pressure points.

Surely the plan has complete grade separation if they will spend a cool billion on a tunnel? I know the plan is for other levels of government to pay but is there no voice saying directly that this plan is insane? Is that what these shenanigans are about?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Surely the plan has complete grade separation if they will spend a cool billion on a tunnel? I know the plan is for other levels of government to pay but is there no voice saying directly that this plan is insane? Is that what these shenanigans are about?

In the parallel universe where the Evil Acajack exists, the dominant theory sub in my head is that the city is subtly looking for an "out" of this project.