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  #1441  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
Never stopped the government requesting more and more ICBC dividends.
Both parties have dipped into the BCH and ICBC coffers when they felt like they needed to. They get thrown under the bus by the opposition. It has really stopped in the last 5-10 years.

Of course it can come back. But BCH customers, ICBC customers, and BC taxpayers are basically the same group of people, so...
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  #1442  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 4:40 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
Never stopped the government requesting more and more ICBC dividends.
I was just going to point out the huge run-up in ICBC premiums under the BC Liberals. And for years they kept Hydro from investing in renewing its infrastructure so the government’s balance sheet would look good.

Last edited by whatnext; Dec 1, 2022 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #1443  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 8:28 PM
Jimbo604 Jimbo604 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
this has been a discussion for a couple of years now as EV usage grows many levels of government are trying to sort out what to do.

some recent stories on it from Nevada to Scotland all dealing with the same issue of gas tax revenue losses.

https://www.rtoinsider.com/articles/31121-nev-panel-recommends-road-usage-charge-zevs

https://neworleanscitybusiness.com/blog/...-finds-electric-vehicle-fees-inadequate/

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/electric-car-owners-hit-road-28472652

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n...replace-gas-tax-with-tolls-for-motorists
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Originally Posted by Jimbo604 View Post
I find these kind of stories alarmist like the whole gas tax thing is going to collapse "next year" or something.

The issue is the BC registered vehicle fleet size is huge at ~2.67 million (source: ICBC *) but the number of new vehicles sold ~190k per year in BC is not so big (source: StatsCan). And of that less than 20% of that ~190k are EV's.

For 2021 data shows 2,673,127 registered vehicles in BC of which 58,973 were electric. 2022 stats aren't out yet but I've seen a 80,000 figure. So as a percentage of the total fleet size EV's went from ~2.2% to ~3%.

The percentage of new vehicles being EV is increasing but it will still take many years to refresh the fleet with EV's. We might not even be at 10% of the fleet being EV in 5 years.

I heartily support EV's, but four out of five cars sold in BC are still gas powered. So more must be done. Much more.

It seems likely to me that the government will simply continue what they must have been doing over the last few years when EV's grew from 0% to 3% of the fleet. And that is increasing the gas tax to make up the difference that this low-single digit % of the fleet made. Obviously they can't continue doing that forever, however, it shouldn't be a problem continuing to follow this strategy and kicking the "what do we do with the tax" can down the road for the next five years or even longer.

* ICBC has some great open data sets on their website about registered cars in BC. You can drill down by vehicle year, make, fuel type, municipality, calendar year, etc. All sorts of filters. Link: ICBC Open Data web page
I posted this in a response in the General Vancouver thread, maybe I should have posted it here instead.
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  #1444  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 12:13 AM
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if you have an ICE vehicle better gas up tonight before the latest of Justin's carbon taxes kicks in!
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  #1445  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 2:34 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
if you have an ICE vehicle better gas up tonight before the latest of Justin's carbon taxes kicks in!
If this is in reference to the new Clean Fuel Regulations, most producers are already complying. So if there are price increases, it's not the change in rules causing it.

If this is in reference to federal carbon pricing changes, it doesn't apply in BC because we have our own pricing system. So if there are price increases, again, see point #1.
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  #1446  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 2:40 AM
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if you have an ICE vehicle better gas up tonight before the latest of Justin's carbon taxes kicks in!
Crap. I guess I will not get that Dr. Pepper tomorrow when I fill up.
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  #1447  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bluefox View Post
If this is in reference to the new Clean Fuel Regulations, most producers are already complying. So if there are price increases, it's not the change in rules causing it.

If this is in reference to federal carbon pricing changes, it doesn't apply in BC because we have our own pricing system. So if there are price increases, again, see point #1.
I was just going to respond 'fake news', but you went into more detail so credit to you for that.
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  #1448  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 4:04 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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BC carbon taxes will go from 14 cents in 2023 to 24 cents in 2026.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes...blications/carbon-tax-rates-by-fuel-type
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  #1449  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 5:26 AM
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Let that sink in: 14 cents per litre... out of $197.9. Methinks it's the other 184 cents that everybody should be up in arms about.
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  #1450  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 6:24 AM
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Theoretically, in a real market economy, gas prices should go down, as demand is lessened by the increased percentage of EVs on the road. But we don't have a real market economy do we?
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  #1451  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 9:57 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
if you have an ICE vehicle better gas up tonight before the latest of Justin's carbon taxes kicks in!
Is there any accountability where money from this another cash grab will go?
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  #1452  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 2:05 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Is there any accountability where money from this another cash grab will go?
Where is the accountability from people who don’t care about climate change?
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  #1453  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Theoretically, in a real market economy, gas prices should go down, as demand is lessened by the increased percentage of EVs on the road. But we don't have a real market economy do we?
Not for gas, it seems like a complete racket. Five years into an EV for me with no regrets.
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  #1454  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Is there any accountability where money from this another cash grab will go?
The Federal budget is a public document and widely available. Please check there for details.
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  #1455  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 5:36 PM
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So gas today is reported at $1.93 on E Broadway and Clark. A year ago it was $2.25. What's the problem again?
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  #1456  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Theoretically, in a real market economy, gas prices should go down, as demand is lessened by the increased percentage of EVs on the road. But we don't have a real market economy do we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Is there any accountability where money from this another cash grab will go?
It’s a lot more transparent than the up to $81 billion of tax money that subsidizes the Canadian fossil fuel industry (IMF's own numbers, not any environmental group's). Want to talk about government interference? Best to start there.
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  #1457  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
It’s a lot more transparent than the up to $81 billion of tax money that subsidizes the Canadian fossil fuel industry (IMF's own numbers, not any environmental group's). Want to talk about government interference? Best to start there.
That estimate includes externalities caused by climate change, not direct subsidies... the direct subsidies (which is what most people talk about when talking about subsidies) are much lower.

Externality costs are very hard to calculate and very easy to bloat up to ridiculous numbers. They also don't count the externality costs of the alternatives.
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  #1458  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 7:39 PM
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The direct subsidies still work out to $43 billion, or around 3% of this country's GDP. Solar and wind can only dream of getting that much annual funding.
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  #1459  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2023, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
That estimate includes externalities caused by climate change, not direct subsidies... the direct subsidies (which is what most people talk about when talking about subsidies) are much lower.

Externality costs are very hard to calculate and very easy to bloat up to ridiculous numbers. They also don't count the externality costs of the alternatives.
It seems likely that the IMF study is overly conservative. According to the Canadian Medical Association, burning fossil fuels is responsible for annual health-related costs of CAD 53.5 billion in Canada. There are 90,000 abandoned oil wells, toxic tailing ponds and ageing pipelines that could cost up to CAD 260 billion to clean up. How much contribution has climate change made to the state of Canada's forests? What's the dollar value of the 5.8 million hectares of forest that's burned so far this year? Or the impact of all the additional carbon dioxide released?
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  #1460  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2023, 5:07 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is online now
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Wouldn’t that be included in the social cost of carbon calculations?
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