Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[rocketphish]

Interest in Ottawa-Paris direct flights will determine whether they continue
1st flight left Ottawa Tuesday, marking a return to Europe for the airport

CBC News
Posted: Jun 28, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 21 minutes ago

Direct flights between Ottawa and Paris have begun, but it's a trial run and challenges remain, according to the Ottawa airport's president and CEO.

As of Tuesday the Ottawa International Airport has five Air France flights per week. They leave Ottawa at 5:05 p.m. ET and arrive in Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport the next morning at 6:15 Central European Time (CET).

Going the other way, they leave that main Paris airport at 1:10 p.m. CET and arrive in Ottawa at 3:05 p.m. ET.

This marks a return to Europe for the Ottawa airport, which lost its London and Frankfurt flights earlier in the pandemic.

In an interview in French with Radio-Canada, Ottawa International Airport Authority president and CEO Mark Laroche said interest in these flights this summer will determine whether the service will continue.

And it's a tough sell.

Ottawa's location between Toronto and Montreal can make competition to acquire and continue flights to destinations such as Paris difficult, Laroche said.

According to a search for round-trip non-stop flights at Expedia.ca on Tuesday, Ottawa flights to Paris cost just under $1,900, compared to $1,125 in Toronto and $1,051 in Montreal. Without a direct flight, people around Ottawa would have to make their way to another airport such as those.

To drum up interest, Laroche and Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe will be going to the French capital next week in the hopes of convincing Parisiens to make the trip to Ottawa.

Mehran Ebrahimi, director of the International Observatory of Aeronautics and Civil Aviation and professor at the school of management sciences of the University of Quebec in Montreal, said the current trend is for direct flights.

In an interview with Radio-Canada, he said families especially are sometimes willing to spend more for the convenience of a direct flight without having to travel to another city to get one.

Ebrahimi also said that when a company like Air France decides to launch a new direct route, it's been well thought out and can help bolster a city's travel reputation.

The fact that Ottawa attracts people travelling on business, especially diplomats, adds to its allure, he said.

The number of people going through the Ottawa airport every day — 12,000 return travellers on average, according to its figures — is nearing pre-pandemic levels.

The completion of the light rail expansion to the airport will also help bolster its recovery, Laroche said.

There is also a pilot project starting by late August that will see Ottawa added to the Verified Traveller program.

Laroche added there is no reason for travellers to worry about WestJet's recent takeovers of Sunwing and Swoop, though some of the connections for flights could change.

With files from Radio-Canada

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-airport-paris-flight-2023-1.6890172

[pattherat]

So if the prices are so out of scale to MTL and TO, the question is whether AF really wants to see this succeed?

With TO a further distance, what is the justification for a price swing so large? Is YOW charging higher gate fees? Something else?

If the diff was ~$100-$150, I would absolutely favour direct from Ottawa, but this delta is rather large.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-airport-paris-flight-2023-1.6890172

Good interview with Laroche embedded in the link.

Il y a aussi un entrevue dans l'article Radio-Canada in French with Mr. Laroche: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/ohdio/premie...port-international-ottawa-air-france-cdg. The talk in French goes well beyond the AF flight.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 75

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2 - if this were 0, it would have tied the post-March 2020 record of 77 that's been hit a couple of times.

[OTSkyline]

Originally Posted by pattherat

So if the prices are so out of scale to MTL and TO, the question is whether AF really wants to see this succeed?

With TO a further distance, what is the justification for a price swing so large? Is YOW charging higher gate fees? Something else?

If the diff was ~$100-$150, I would absolutely favour direct from Ottawa, but this delta is rather large.

Prices do seem a bit high, on average I'm seeing $1,900 for round-trip from Ottawa in the next 30 days, $1,500 for the next 60 days and going down to about $1,100 in the next 90 days, compared to about $1,000 to $1,200 for Montreal or Toronto.

[YOWhopeful]

Aren’t the high prices a reflection that seats are selling well? The fewer the seats available, the higher the price IMO

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by pattherat

So if the prices are so out of scale to MTL and TO, the question is whether AF really wants to see this succeed?

With TO a further distance, what is the justification for a price swing so large? Is YOW charging higher gate fees? Something else?

If the diff was ~$100-$150, I would absolutely favour direct from Ottawa, but this delta is rather large.

Serving a destination has a certain amount of fixed overhead. In Toronto and Montreal, that overhead is shared between many more passengers, more airline partners and multiple daily departures per day.

This is why a new destination like Ottawa is going to require a substantial premium at the start. If proven demand, the number of flights and seats offered goes up and that fixed cost starts to be shared more widely.

We're about to see if there's real demand in Ottawa for Transatlantic service. Not just talk. But a willingness to pay.

[Tesladom]

Its unfortunate they are charging so much more for Ottawa direct flights. Could be related to 2 factors:
1) No direct competition (YUL has Transat AF, AC all flying to Paris)
2) If load factor is already high, they usually bump up the prices for remaining seats

Its not related to higher gate fees etc...

[originalmuffins]

Yeah, I am just hoping our market can weather the storm. If AF also makes integration to using CDG easy as a stopover to other destinations in Europe, that would also drive up numbers for travellers from YOW.

I am happy we have this route, and when I get the chance I will fly AF to do my part. If this route is successful then we can start to see more options trickle in.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

Aren’t the high prices a reflection that seats are selling well? The fewer the seats available, the higher the price IMO

That’s what I was thinking. What is the LF to the YOW-CDG flights compared to YYZ or YUL to CDG? From what I can see so far from the seat map of my flight in July, it looks pretty full. Of course the prices will be high with low inventory. At the time of my booking, price differences were only about $200-$300. I’ve even seen LOWER costs from YOW to certain destinations on exact days. Maybe the real test will be the winter months?

I think it will succeed and hopefully see an increase in frequency. I can’t be the only person on the planet that detests AC, YYZ, and YUL.

[danduc]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Prices do seem a bit high, on average I'm seeing $1,900 for round-trip from Ottawa in the next 30 days, $1,500 for the next 60 days and going down to about $1,100 in the next 90 days, compared to about $1,000 to $1,200 for Montreal or Toronto.

A bit high ??? Well, we saw the price for AF and NO Way we would be forking another 1200$ (for 2) to get a direct flight. Are they out of their mind!!!. Air Transat it will be (YUL).

And beside, with only one plane 5 days a week, there is no other choice for CDG if there is mechanical breakdown in YOW.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

We're about to see if there's real demand in Ottawa for Transatlantic service. Not just talk. But a willingness to pay.

I wish I were more confident than I am. Ottawans have the reputation they do for a reason.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Good interview with Laroche embedded in the link.

Il y a aussi un entrevue dans l'article Radio-Canada in French with Mr. Laroche: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/ohdio/premie...port-international-ottawa-air-france-cdg. The talk in French goes well beyond the AF flight.

Thanks for sharing the link.

Laroche seems to think the route will do well. He talks about AF already continuing the flights through the winter and potential aircraft changes.

When the reporter lists off the price differences between YUL, YYZ, and YOW, Laroche says prices are dynamic and without knowing the days, it doesn't really mean anything.

He does add though, that if the route doesn't do well, things could change quickly and AF will redeploy their assets elsewhere.

I quickly looked through the Jan schedule and the flight will be a 4:50 pm arrival into YOW and an 8 am arrival into CDG.

Laroche also mentions that the current times are timed well for the morning CDG bank to Europe, Northern Africa and elsewhere.

It's about 6 min interview and I suggest taking a listen.

[YOWhopeful]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Thanks for sharing the link.

Laroche seems to think the route will do well. He talks about AF already continuing the flights through the winter and potential aircraft changes.

When the reporter lists off the price differences between YUL, YYZ, and YOW, Laroche says prices are dynamic and without knowing the days, it doesn't really mean anything.

He does add though, that if the route doesn't do well, things could change quickly and AF will redeploy their assets elsewhere.

I quickly looked through the Jan schedule and the flight will be a 4:50 pm arrival into YOW and an 8 am arrival into CDG.

Laroche also mentions that the current times are timed well for the morning CDG bank to Europe, Northern Africa and elsewhere.

It's about 6 min interview and I suggest taking a listen.

I listened to the interview. Both in English and in French and I MUST say they thst Laroche ws much more optimistic than what the journalist wrote in his article.

I do think from a marketing perspective that AF has to emphasize CDG as a hub rather than destination.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

I listened to the interview. Both in English and in French and I MUST say they thst Laroche ws much more optimistic than what the journalist wrote in his article.

I do think from a marketing perspective that AF has to emphasize CDG as a hub rather than destination.

It just makes a lot of sense that the flights are expensive because they are selling well. He said “they are selling”. Evident by the lower prices 3-4 months out. If people are searching for August today, of course they’re going to be expensive. Everyone has already made their summer travel plans.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

Yeah, I am just hoping our market can weather the storm. If AF also makes integration to using CDG easy as a stopover to other destinations in Europe, that would also drive up numbers for travellers from YOW.

Couldn't agree more with this, I'd even expand and say they should be marketing it as a gateway to Europe, Africa, the Middle East and beyond.

The CTV news story attached here interviews a passenger connecting on to visit family in Nigeria: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/air-france-launches-ottawa-paris-service-1.6459668

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I wish I were more confident than I am. Ottawans have the reputation they do for a reason.

I mean yes and no. No market has many people willing to pay $1900 vs $1100 to save a connection. Flights to Europe from Toronto and Montreal are filled with Americans saving a few bucks. Ottawa does might have more who will drive to save $50 that is true.

[danduc]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

It just makes a lot of sense that the flights are expensive because they are selling well. He said “they are selling”. Evident by the lower prices 3-4 months out. If people are searching for August today, of course they’re going to be expensive. Everyone has already made their summer travel plans.

I doubt that the Fed. Gov. travel section will permit "regular" employees to use AF at this price point. They use the cheapest travelling option. If that means doing a YOW-YUL-CDG on Air Canada, they will probably do it that way.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Laroche seems to think the route will do well. He talks about AF already continuing the flights through the winter and potential aircraft changes.

This stuck out to me. At 226 seats, the A332 is by far their smallest widebody (actually has 15 less economy seats than their A321s!) with the next two being the 787-9 at 279 seats and a more premium-heavy config of the 777-200ER at 280 seats. So any talk of equipment changes would seem to imply the demand so far is quite healthy.

[Tesladom]

CDG is not the destination for most travelers, it is a hub that connects to over 270 other destinations.

That being said, if you destination is Rome for example, the drive to YUL with direct flight is still a better option IMO. But say you wanted to go to destinations in Europe, Middle East or Africa not serviced from on direct route from YUL, the CDG option is quite viable.

I personally would never fly YOW-YUL-—, too much risk in the YOW-YUL flight delays and missing connection, lost baggage, more time etc.... I'll continue to drive to YUL (as I'm doing this Friday for example)