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  #15961  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 12:53 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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^ tell me about it. At one point last night, BOS, LGA, EWR, JFK, TEB, HPN all had ground stops. LGA had an airport arrival rate of only 8 aircraft an hour at one point…!

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Originally Posted by JakeLRS View Post
There transborder loads weren’t terrible last winter, but they weren’t good. Not sure what they are thinking launching these routes at the beginning of the fall when demand dips.

More so shocked how they have nothing loaded for YHM past October.
I don’t think YUL-LAS demand dips in the fall. It probably goes up. Same for the routes into PHX.
     
     
  #15962  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 6:37 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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After being inexplicably excluded from the Verified Traveller program, the Minister of Transport says it's coming soon to YOW and YHZ on 23AUG23: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/mi...eld-international-airport-861583763.html
     
     
  #15963  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 7:29 PM
MountainView MountainView is offline
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Porter *officially* annouces YYZ-YYJ

The turn seems TIGHT

news release
     
     
  #15964  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 7:41 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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a 56 minute turn is definately not tight. It's around industry standard for that type of aircraft. If anything, the plane should be pushing back after 45 minutes.
     
     
  #15965  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 8:17 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
Porter *officially* annouces YYZ-YYJ

The turn seems TIGHT

news release
I'd expect the official YLW-YYZ announcement to come on Thursday.

After this, I'd imagine YOW/YYZ-Florida for the winter will be the next routes announced in August...I have no evidence to support this, just a hunch.
     
     
  #15966  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
a 56 minute turn is definately not tight. It's around industry standard for that type of aircraft. If anything, the plane should be pushing back after 45 minutes.
PD have turn less than 56min in basically every airport it operates to. The one in YHZ is exactly 45min.

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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
I'd expect the official YLW-YYZ announcement to come on Thursday.

After this, I'd imagine YOW/YYZ-Florida for the winter will be the next routes announced in August...I have no evidence to support this, just a hunch.
Not sure if it will add YUL-YVR/YYC and codeshare with TS after TS pulling out of the routes this winter. Since the Montreal E2 pilot base starts later this summer (?), they'll probably need more route than just fly to YYZ. If so, then the November start means it should announce before the sun routes.
     
     
  #15967  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 9:13 PM
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LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Are you really comparing Halifax (or even Vancouver) to Boston or San Fran? Both those US cities have metro areas larger than 4 million people. Halifax is tiny by comparison, and Vancouver is just over half the size. Not to mention demand between Boston and San Fran significantly outweighs Canadian demand between Vancouver and anything east of Toronto (and that includes Montreal, an actual metro city of 4 million+).
Well in fairness a comparison does not have to be an exact equal.

While BOS-SFO has significantly more population to pull from it also has 15 direct flights per day, while up until a year ago YVR-YHZ barely had 1. The population of SFO-BOS is not 15x the population of YVR-YHZ so I see why he was comparing the two given the geographic similarities of the routes and the roles each city plays within their respective confederation. With that said I don't agree that it's "like if BOS-SFO didn't have flights", but what's a good point without a bit of exaggeration?
     
     
  #15968  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 2:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
Porter *officially* annouces YYZ-YYJ

The turn seems TIGHT

news release
Sounds like the local tourism board is helping out with some money in some ways.

https://www.timescolonist.com/business/p...rrive-in-victoria-come-september-7204620

Should be a solid addition. Good to see them start YYJ.
     
     
  #15969  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 1:50 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
PD have turn less than 56min in basically every airport it operates to. The one in YHZ is exactly 45min.



Not sure if it will add YUL-YVR/YYC and codeshare with TS after TS pulling out of the routes this winter. Since the Montreal E2 pilot base starts later this summer (?), they'll probably need more route than just fly to YYZ. If so, then the November start means it should announce before the sun routes.
I doubt it. Clearly PD's priorities are to build up YYZ and YOW first. It's going to be a while before YUL's a PD base. PD's focus will turn to Montreal once the YHU terminal opens.
     
     
  #15970  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 1:51 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Here are English and French interviews with YOW's CEO (the French is the more in-depth one) regarding AF's entry into YOW + other airport-related topics.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-airport-paris-flight-2023-1.6890172

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/ohdio/premie...port-international-ottawa-air-france-cdg
     
     
  #15971  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
While BOS-SFO has significantly more population to pull from it also has 15 direct flights per day, while up until a year ago YVR-YHZ barely had 1. The population of SFO-BOS is not 15x the population of YVR-YHZ so I see why he was comparing the two given the geographic similarities of the routes and the roles each city plays within their respective confederation. With that said I don't agree that it's "like if BOS-SFO didn't have flights", but what's a good point without a bit of exaggeration?
The main point is that until recently there weren't good direct flights between Canada's 2 coastal regions, hence Canada had poorer coast-to-coast connectivity than the USA.

YHZ doesn't just serve metro Halifax, nor is YVR just Vancouver. The Maritimes have over 2 million people.
     
     
  #15972  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The main point is that until recently there weren't good direct flights between Canada's 2 coastal regions, hence Canada had poorer coast-to-coast connectivity than the USA.

YHZ doesn't just serve metro Halifax, nor is YVR just Vancouver. The Maritimes have over 2 million people.
I wonder if the lack of direct connections was more about the practical considerations involved than an inability to support the route.

Older narrowbody aircraft couldn't go as far as today's models. For instance, a 737-200 capped out at 2,300 nautical miles. DC-9s capped out at around 1,500. YVR-YHZ is 2,760 nm. So a stop in Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal was a necessity. I guess older widebodies could have handled the distance but you probably wouldn't have had the passenger volume to support a daily 767 or whatever, which cities the size of Boston and San Francisco could do with ease.
     
     
  #15973  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I wonder if the lack of direct connections was more about the practical considerations involved than an inability to support the route.

Older narrowbody aircraft couldn't go as far as today's models. For instance, a 737-200 capped out at 2,300 nautical miles. DC-9s capped out at around 1,500. YVR-YHZ is 2,760 nm. So a stop in Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal was a necessity. I guess older widebodies could have handled the distance but you probably wouldn't have had the passenger volume to support a daily 767 or whatever, which cities the size of Boston and San Francisco could do with ease.
The hub & spoke model was also better for the environment as more fuel efficient turboprops could be used on the spokes.
     
     
  #15974  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 6:51 PM
thewave46 thewave46 is offline
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The main point is that until recently there weren't good direct flights between Canada's 2 coastal regions, hence Canada had poorer coast-to-coast connectivity than the USA.

YHZ doesn't just serve metro Halifax, nor is YVR just Vancouver. The Maritimes have over 2 million people.
Indeed, but one can get a flight direct to multiple Maritime cities by connecting in Toronto and Montreal. Outside of Halifax, one is driving several hours if they're not from there. One has to weigh the cost/benefit ratio for that.

In the case of Westjet, they've long been doing Halifax-Calgary. This is in contrast to pushing onwards to Vancouver because airlines generally don't overfly their primary hubs.

Airlines tend to like routing through hubs to smaller destinations until the destination can support demand reliably. Air Canada - with its fairly strong network in Canada - probably has their finger on the pulse of demand well and it recognized a weakness. Great for Halifax, but the couple of direct flights to Vancouver probably aren't going to mean much in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, the coast-to-coast thing is weaker here, but it makes sense given our relatively dispersed, smaller coastal cities on the Atlantic. Comparing demand from the US Northeast mega-region to California seems kind of unfair.
     
     
  #15975  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 8:24 PM
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Alex Praglowski reviews Porter from YYC-YYZ and onto YHZ. The load from Calgary to Toronto looks dismally low.

• Video Link
     
     
  #15976  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thewave46 View Post
Indeed, but one can get a flight direct to multiple Maritime cities by connecting in Toronto and Montreal. Outside of Halifax, one is driving several hours if they're not from there. One has to weigh the cost/benefit ratio for that.
Sort of. There aren't any other major airports and there aren't a lot of flights in general outside of Halifax within NS. There will be people from Sydney or Yarmouth or Moncton driving to Halifax sometimes for convenience or cost reasons. I don't think you could get 4 million passengers a year or whatever YHZ is if it were only a local airport.

Quote:
Sure, the coast-to-coast thing is weaker here, but it makes sense given our relatively dispersed, smaller coastal cities on the Atlantic. Comparing demand from the US Northeast mega-region to California seems kind of unfair.
To be clear though there are more YHZ-YVR flights now. We often see generic arguments about why regions can't support such service regardless of the actual service level.
     
     
  #15977  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Alex Praglowski reviews Porter from YYC-YYZ and onto YHZ. The load from Calgary to Toronto looks dismally low.

[YOUTUBE]xpIr6MyM0k0[/]
I heard the YYC-YYZ with porter has been terrible but YEG-YYZ has been doing okay.

I’m sure Porter was expecting this with the western routes as they still need to build their presence out west.
     
     
  #15978  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 10:33 PM
Denscity Denscity is offline
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75000 passengers through YVR today.
     
     
  #15979  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeLRS View Post
I heard the YYC-YYZ with porter has been terrible but YEG-YYZ has been doing okay.

I’m sure Porter was expecting this with the western routes as they still need to build their presence out west.
Take one of the Calgary flights and add a tag on to Victoria or Nanaimo. If Calgarians are not willing to fill those seats certain those from the island will.
     
     
  #15980  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeLRS View Post
I heard the YYC-YYZ with porter has been terrible….
This surprises me. The new kid on the block? I hope to avail of this service soon! The 2x2 seating, the freebies in flight plus the what appears to be healthy good quality food offerings all appeal to me!
     
     
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