Highways in Canada

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes and no.

It doesn't make that much sense to have the KM-based exits if you don't know what the routing for an eventual divided freeway (at least on some segments) is going to be, as then you'll have to change them all again. And people will be used to the old exit numbers by that time. So you end up with temporary signs with both the NEW and OLD exit numbers, like I've seen elsewhere.

That’s a good point.
N.B. had to do that with their Highway 2 and it wasn’t fun.
That’s also why ON-417 starts the number from east to west, against the usual convention.

Quebec doesn’t believe in saving the numbers for later, so we end up with odd cases like A50 starting at KM 134 (because it was envisioned to go to Pembroke back in the days), Route 175 starting at KM 74 after A73 exit 182, and A85 Exit 85 at KM 86.5…

Then again, even in Ontario, upgrading RIRO expressways like 11 and 115 may introduce discrepancy between actually KM and exit numbers too…

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That’s a good point.
N.B. had to do that with their Highway 2 and it wasn’t fun.
That’s also why ON-417 starts the number from east to west, against the usual convention.

Quebec's A-50 is numbered from west to east. The first exit on the highway is Montcalm which is 135 and the last one at Mirabel is 292.

Exit 1 of the A-50 was supposed to be near the Ontario-Quebec border just across from Pembroke, Ontario. The distance between that point and Montcalm in Gatineau (Hull) is about 135 km.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec's A-50 is numbered from west to east. The first exit on the highway is Montcalm which is 135 and the last one at Mirabel is 292.

Exit 1 of the A-50 was supposed to be near the Ontario-Quebec border just across from Pembroke, Ontario. The distance between that point and Montcalm in Gatineau (Hull) is about 135 km.

Yep, that’s why Quebec autoroute KM numbers can be funny.
Then there’s the odd ball where A15’s KM numbers get reset across Metropolitan Freeway (A40).

[harls]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Yep, that’s why Quebec autoroute KM numbers can be funny.
Then there’s the odd ball where A15’s KM numbers get reset across Metropolitan Freeway (A40).

Last year they numbered route 148 with kilometer markers past A-50, but I think they have been removed.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Haha, I read that as "17 becomes deviant 417".

Some of my friends in Ottawa(!) read it like that too, much to my annoyance.
I mean, if it’s my friends in Toronto, I’ll definitely cut them some slack. Ottawa’s a bit different…

Ontario-style bilingualism...

IIRC, New Brunswick and P.E.I. do it that way too.

Last year they numbered route 148 with kilometer markers past A-50, but I think they have been removed.

Which stretch?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Some of my friends in Ottawa(!) read it like that too, much to my annoyance.
I mean, if it’s my friends in Toronto, I’ll definitely cut them some slack. Ottawa’s a bit different…



IIRC, New Brunswick and P.E.I. do it that way too.

Which stretch?

New Brunswick bilingualism in my observation is much more logical and user-friendly than in the parts of Ontario where they do bilingualism. NB is the best in the country in fact.

In Ottawa you see vehicles that are marked "constable SPECIAL constable", as if the word SPECIAL was the most important thing. Who thought of that?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Some of my friends in Ottawa(!) read it like that too, much to my annoyance.
I mean, if it’s my friends in Toronto, I’ll definitely cut them some slack. Ottawa’s a bit different…



IIRC, New Brunswick and P.E.I. do it that way too.

Which stretch?

The Boulevard des Allumettières segment of QC-148 has them.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4092822,...2meEvx8UV9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

New Brunswick bilingualism in my observation is much more logical and user-friendly than in the parts of Ontario where they do bilingualism. NB is the best in the country in fact.

In Ottawa you see vehicles that are marked "constable SPECIAL constable", as if the word SPECIAL was the most important thing. Who thought of that?

Ottawa is probably the poster child for pretty stupidly done bilingualism.

Another of my favourite examples - the automated stop announcements on buses in Ottawa are said in English and again in French, even when the announcement is exactly the same. So you hear, for example.. "Beech... Beech" or "Bronson.. Bronson".

Often things PSAs on billboards or in bus stop shelters will be in either one language or the other, with no geographic logic to where each language goes. So you'll have a promotional billboard for a city program be in French-only in a neighbourhood that is 99% anglophone, while the same billboard will be in English-only in an area like Vanier which actually has a sizeable Francophone population.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa is probably the poster child for pretty stupidly done bilingualism.

Another of my favourite examples - the automated stop announcements on buses in Ottawa are said in English and again in French, even when the announcement is exactly the same. So you hear, for example.. "Beech... Beech" or "Bronson.. Bronson".

Often things PSAs on billboards or in bus stop shelters will be in either one language or the other, with no geographic logic to where each language goes. So you'll have a promotional billboard for a city program be in French-only in a neighbourhood that is 99% anglophone, while the same billboard will be in English-only in an area like Vanier which actually has a sizeable Francophone population.

This for example is just weird to me - and I've been bilingual all my life.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3600577,...g7gvk5VwyfQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This isn't actually the City of Ottawa's signage (it's Ontario Ministry of Transportation), though it's on the outer fringe of Ottawa.

[Dengler Avenue]

Whenever I saw Chemin de Traverse, I kept thinking it was referring to the Quyon ferry (traversier). For the longest time, I thought Kinburn Side Road just had a totally different name in French.
The municipal one is even more cringy though: Chemin Kinburn Side. Other examples include Chemin Old Montreal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Whenever I saw Chemin de Traverse, I kept thinking it was referring to the Quyon ferry (traversier). For the longest time, I thought Kinburn Side Road just had a totally different name in French.
The municipal one is even more cringy though: Chemin Kinburn Side. Other examples include Chemin Old Montreal.

Yeah, the same road has two different French names depending on whether you're looking at municipal or provincial signage.

Funnily enough, Chemin de Traverse is the French name for Diagon Alley in Harry Potter!

Never heard anyone use the term to refer to an actual road in real life, though apparently it refers to a "short cut" road.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

New Brunswick bilingualism in my observation is much more logical and user-friendly than in the parts of Ontario where they do bilingualism. NB is the best in the country in fact.

I have little doubt that NB might be the best (we get lots of practice), but sometimes you still get bilingual abominations here like:

Aeroport Internationale du Grand Moncton Romeo LeBlanc Greater Moncton International Airport

Needless to say, the signage pointing the proper way to the airport is extra-wide.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This for example is just weird to me - and I've been bilingual all my life.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3600577,...g7gvk5VwyfQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This isn't actually the City of Ottawa's signage (it's Ontario Ministry of Transportation), though it's on the outer fringe of Ottawa.

A lot of "street type" words, once you get beyond the basics like "street", "road", "avenue", etc. don't translate well between languages.

"Sideroad", seen in this example, is common in English but has no accepted French equivalent. An example in the reverse direction is "Montée", a common road type used in Quebec, that has no accepted/conventional translation in English.

In some of Ottawa's suburbs, it's become trendy in recent years for developers to give increasingly esoteric "street types" names in new subdivisions, with streets like "Damselfish Walk" or "Bobolink Ridge", and the chosen French translations can be even weirder.

[1overcosc]

Another inconsistent translation in Ontario is over names of municipalities.

In Ontario, municipalities are categorized as either "city", "town", "village", "township", or sometimes just simply "municipality". Legally, all of these designations are in English-only, but municipalities with Franco-Ontarian populations will usually translate their legal names into French, but they are inconsistent with how they do so. The City of Ottawa refers to itself as a "Ville" in French, but the neighbouring City of Clarence-Rockland refers to itself as a "Cité" in French. The Township of Alfred & Plantagenet refers to itself as a "Canton" in French, but the nearby Township of Russell refers to itself as a "Municipalité" in French.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes and no.

It doesn't make that much sense to have the KM-based exits if you don't know what the routing for an eventual divided freeway (at least on some segments) is going to be, as then you'll have to change them all again. And people will be used to the old exit numbers by that time. So you end up with temporary signs with both the NEW and OLD exit numbers, like I've seen elsewhere.

NS is easy enough. Most highways that should be renumbered are either complete and could simply be renumbered, or one end is finished and the numbers could start there.

Or, they can do like ON for 69 and 11 and not number them.

[ScreamingViking]

I'm curious how many of us pay attention to the exit numbers vs. the names/hwy-numbers of the intersecting corridors.

I've never really paid attention to exit numbers. The distance-based ones are useful, but I tend to have a good idea about that pre-trip and knowing where I am at on a given stretch of highway (even for trips on routes I've never travelled... a side-effect of being a map geek )

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I'm curious how many of us pay attention to the exit numbers vs. the names/hwy-numbers of the intersecting corridors.

I've never really paid attention to exit numbers. The distance-based ones are useful, but I tend to have a good idea about that pre-trip and knowing where I am at on a given stretch of highway (even for trips on routes I've never travelled... a side-effect of being a map geek )

In familiar areas, not at all.

Driving in the US, or going east of Toronto, all the time. Distance based makes for easy math, and I'll use it to turn off Google Maps to save battery and data. If the exit numbers tell me I'm going straight for 175 km/miles, I'll look at the odometer, add 150, and then when I hit that number turn Maps back on.

But even less specifically, roads can have many names, sometimes signs are have lots of cities or directions on them... but numbers are easy to identify and hard to mess up their meaning.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

A lot of "street type" words, once you get beyond the basics like "street", "road", "avenue", etc. don't translate well between languages.

"Sideroad", seen in this example, is common in English but has no accepted French equivalent. An example in the reverse direction is "Montée", a common road type used in Quebec, that has no accepted/conventional translation in English.

.

Yes they have trouble translating "Montée" though I've always thought it was simply "Hill", as you occasionally see roads in the anglo world called "Wilson's Hill" or "Craigstown Hill".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

NS is easy enough. Most highways that should be renumbered are either complete and could simply be renumbered, or one end is finished and the numbers could start there.

Or, they can do like ON for 69 and 11 and not number them.

In the case of Nova Scotia you're right, as the alignment of the 100-series highways which are today super-2s is basically set. If ever they are twinned they won't be using a new alignment along another routing. They'll simply widen the highway in the existing right-of-way and the exits will for the most part stay exactly where they are. No kilometric change in that case.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

In some of Ottawa's suburbs, it's become trendy in recent years for developers to give increasingly esoteric "street types" names in new subdivisions, with streets like "Damselfish Walk" or "Bobolink Ridge", and the chosen French translations can be even weirder.

Yup, though I seem to have observed in some instances that Ottawa has given up and simply uses the name only in English. Seems more common in the west end than the east end though. For obvious reasons.

Ottawa streets that use the French De, Des, Du, De La, etc. are also awkward, in that most everyone still seems to use the English generic at the end, instead of the French one as the start.

So you get "Des Gouverneurs Drive" or "Des Perdrix Crescent".

Named for the fondly remembered Desmond Gouverneurs and Desiree Perdrix, of course.