Winnipeg Construction X

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ eleven storey parkade. No tower.

Please dear God let this be satire.

[ColdRain&Snow]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ eleven storey parkade. No tower.

Wow that's awful.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Gotta love the contrast on this page of the thread.

- U of M: has RFP for the first phase of a multi billion dollar well-designed urban community with less car-centric design. We're comparing Winnipeg to other major urban centres.

-downtown: were getting rid of a parking lot and an old hotel! Replacing it with a gargantuan 11 storey parkade. How bout that, biggest one in the whole province folks.

Because the uofm real estate is some of the most valuable in the city and a place people want to live whereas downtown real estate is worthless and a place people want to escape after work or a Jets game.

[trueviking]

^ we should be clear. The U of M is a drawing of a dream. Whatever it does end up looking like, it won’t be that.

[trueviking]

Reading through that U of M design book, I can’t help but be a wet blanket. Maybe I’m jaded and have been working in the residential development sector for too long. All buildings must be LEED Gold. It’s easy for institutions like universities, with high budgets to require LEED, but that is not a thing in developer work. They want all parking under ground. They want high rise density. I feel like the Alberta firm that designed it is going to be in for a big reality check when they see what the Winnipeg market can actually support.

[esquire]

When you look at the state of downtown, can any of us say that they are genuinely shocked that no one wants to bet big on the St. Regis hotel site's residential potential?

Certain parts of downtown might be a little more marketable, like Bro-Ass and the Exchange District. But the Portage Ave precinct from roughly Graham north (excluding the Exchange) does not seem like the kind of place that would be an easy sell for large-scale new residential. Glasshouse tried, but it hasn't exactly turned out to be a smash hit.

[thebasketballgeek]

^Considering that Winnipeg is growing at its fastest rate in decades, and roughly 70% of new units are multi-family I think there is a chance this could be something really impressive.

And let’s be real for a second, the U of M and adjacent area have some of the highest demand for housing in Winnipeg. It’s about time the area gets something truly high density and walkable since that’s the direction the city is hopefully headed.

[esquire]

^ I agree, in theory downtown should be a desirable place. Especially in a city that is growing. But it should not be terribly surprising that a neighbourhood which is effectively a dumping ground for all kinds of socially marginalized people won't be a very strong draw for people seeking a place to live.

Case in point. I have been working as a volunteer mentor for a family that recently arrived in Canada from Ukraine. Word gets around pretty quickly that the suburbs, preferably the southern ones, are the only place to be. And a quick stroll around downtown certainly drives the point home. There is zero chance that they would have ever considered moving downtown unless there was absolutely no alternative. They now live in Bridgwater Forest, close to the Save On Foods. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. It's our reality. And the developers clearly know this.

[trueviking]

I think we have to be realistic though. The hope is a walkable complete community but the reality is that it’s still a suburban island. People will need cars. There’s no way the Winnipeg rental market supports all that parking underground. This will fundamentally alter the plan. I also don’t believe high-rise will be feasible beyond maybe a few buildings. I’m not sure the university is a huge draw for residents, especially high end housing. What makes that property any more valuable than Bridgwater or Fort Rouge Yards? The university is a drive in campus.

[trueviking]

Should also mention that the parkade is probably something like a $40 million investment in downtown.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Should also mention that the parkade is probably something like a $40 million investment in downtown.

The downtown parkades I've seen are nowhere near as busy now as they were before the pandemic. This St. Regis parkade seems like a big bet for an area that hasn't seen much growth in decades... are they tying this to the Public Safety Building in some way? Even then, the adjacent office tower is empty.

Is there really that much demand for parking there? I mean, I could have seen it working had SkyCity been built...

[trueviking]

^ I agree completely. I don’t understand the business model at all. Maybe they think they can make a deal with the police?

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Gotta love the contrast on this page of the thread.

- U of M: has RFP for the first phase of a multi billion dollar well-designed urban community with less car-centric design. We're comparing Winnipeg to other major urban centres.

-downtown: were getting rid of a parking lot and an old hotel! Replacing it with a gargantuan 11 storey parkade. How bout that, biggest one in the whole province folks.

Seems odd for sure.
I also think some will be for the WPS.
Might be half or more.
My hope is largest tallest parkade, in time the largest tallest residential or mixed use tower eventually? A guy can dream right?
Hopefully not 40 years away.

[Atrial78]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I agree, in theory downtown should be a desirable place. Especially in a city that is growing. But it should not be terribly surprising that a neighbourhood which is effectively a dumping ground for all kinds of socially marginalized people won't be a very strong draw for people seeking a place to live.

How do we begin to change this narrative and situation? As someone who recently moved to Winnipeg, the first place I looked was downtown as I've enjoyed living in downtown in other cities. Like most, I was turned away by the warnings of crime, etc. Does downtown need more social services, policing? A city can't be a city without a thriving core, and I actually think this period of significant growth/immigration is a good time to focus on improvement as many immigrants come from countries where the core is very walkable and a key part of the social atmosphere of the city.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by esquire

The downtown parkades I've seen are nowhere near as busy now as they were before the pandemic. This St. Regis parkade seems like a big bet for an area that hasn't seen much growth in decades... are they tying this to the Public Safety Building in some way? Even then, the adjacent office tower is empty.

Is there really that much demand for parking there? I mean, I could have seen it working had SkyCity been built...

I live downtown. I have a routinely good view of the parkade by the MTS Canada Life Centre, between Hargrave and Carlton. It has never once been full in the year I've lived here. One time, during the Jets playoffs, I saw a couple cars on the roof deck, so assuming all stalls below were occupied, generously 85% full overall. So a competing parkade maybe tops out at 5/6 occupancy a couple days a year, and is otherwise maybe 60% full during a M-F workday. Far less than that on a non-NHL weekend.

I do not understand why someone would gamble by building structured parking, especially for the largest such building in the province.

[trueviking]

@Atrial. great point.

[post_man]

I won't pretend to understand the business/financial side of it, but as far as use of space goes, eleven storeys of covered parking on a lot is superior to one surface lot.
Downtowns do need some parking, and relegating it to a vertical arrangement goes hand in hand with replacing surface lots with useful buildings.

The fact that it's just a parkade isn't the dream, but tall parkades are a superior form of parking for urban spaces.

I hope that we won't be scared to continue to get rid of the surface lots one-by-one and corral people who still want/need to drive into stacked parking.

[Labroco]

The downtown core does not need any additional parking at this time. Lots are working at less than 65% pre Covid capacity. How anyone would consider this a viable financial proposal is beyond me. I don’t believe it’s even financeable.

There is covered parking at Portage Place, City Square, Portage & Main, The Bay, Garry Parkade, Eaton Parkade, Medical Arts parkade etc. etc. etc.

I think they are hoping to be approved for a phased parking structure. They will stop at the first level…

How does this even comply with the “ Development Agreement” tied to the site when purchased?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by post_man

I won't pretend to understand the business/financial side of it, but as far as use of space goes, eleven storeys of covered parking on a lot is superior to one surface lot.
Downtowns do need some parking, and relegating it to a vertical arrangement goes hand in hand with replacing surface lots with useful buildings.

The fact that it's just a parkade isn't the dream, but tall parkades are a superior form of parking for urban spaces.

I hope that we won't be scared to continue to get rid of the surface lots one-by-one and corral people who still want/need to drive into stacked parking.

I’m personally not opposed to it. I’ve heard it’s actually a nice looking building. I just wonder about the business model. It’s their risk though.

Maybe it will allow new buildings in the area to not build parking.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Atrial78

How do we begin to change this narrative and situation? As someone who recently moved to Winnipeg, the first place I looked was downtown as I've enjoyed living in downtown in other cities. Like most, I was turned away by the warnings of crime, etc. Does downtown need more social services, policing? A city can't be a city without a thriving core, and I actually think this period of significant growth/immigration is a good time to focus on improvement as many immigrants come from countries where the core is very walkable and a key part of the social atmosphere of the city.

Totally agree re: the last point. But put yourself in the shoes of the typical immigrant. Like someone who arrived from Ukraine. A place where downtown areas are clean and orderly. They are bustling hubs of retail and commerce.

Then you come to Winnipeg and take a stroll down Portage. What do you see? Empty storefronts. Traffic. Panhandlers. Smashed things. Crumbling infrastructure. Visibly intoxicated people. It's dirty. What on earth is going to make anyone see that and think "I need to live here?"

I'm not saying downtown Winnipeg is not without some appeal. But the appeal is extremely limited. I'd say the main demographics are 20-35 year olds who value the culture, nightlife and entertainment aspects of downtown, and 65+ seniors who like the skywalks and proximity to doctors and such although even that is diminishing now that there is hardly any shopping left in the area, and both the Boyd and Medical Arts Building no longer house medical clinics.

There is a ton of work to be done improving things before it is anywhere near the point of being attractive to newcomers. You could argue that we were getting there until the meth explosion and then the pandemic pretty well turned the clock back to 1997.