Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Swoop did YOW-YEG-YXX and YOW-YHZ last summer (the routes WS mainline pulled out of). They eventually dropped the YXX tag, but continued YEG 3-5x weekly.

Neither route was bookable all winter, so the writing was on the wall for the routes from YOW at least.

WS has brought back YEG on mainline metal which is great. And are nearly 2x daily to YVR in the summer. They have a gaping hole out east, but that is their own decision and has been filed nicely by AC (3x daily, with 1x on an A220), Flair (7-10x weekly), and Porter (2-3x daily) all to YHZ. This is on top of Porter offering YFC, YQM, and YYG direct, and YYT with a one-stop-same-plane service to YYT via YHZ.

Swoop did quite a bit of Hamilton- East flights (Halifax, Moncton, St. Johns, Deer Lake, Charlottetown). Hopefully Porter is looking to go into Hamilton from YOW to pick up the connection traffic. Not sure if they want to have 3 airports they serve in the GTHA but traffic to east was there.

[MountainView]

07/25 is open again!

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Swoop did YOW-YEG-YXX and YOW-YHZ last summer (the routes WS mainline pulled out of). They eventually dropped the YXX tag, but continued YEG 3-5x weekly.

Neither route was bookable all winter, so the writing was on the wall for the routes from YOW at least.

WS has brought back YEG on mainline metal which is great. And are nearly 2x daily to YVR in the summer. They have a gaping hole out east, but that is their own decision and has been filed nicely by AC (3x daily, with 1x on an A220), Flair (7-10x weekly), and Porter (2-3x daily) all to YHZ. This is on top of Porter offering YFC, YQM, and YYG direct, and YYT with a one-stop-same-plane service to YYT via YHZ.

They also competed with themselves last summer on YOW-YWG. Swoop's sole raison d'etre was to put Flair out of business...and to pay a pile of their pilots and F/As lower wages.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

They also competed with themselves last summer on YOW-YWG. Swoop's sole raison d'etre was to put Flair out of business...and to pay a pile of their pilots and F/As lower wages.

Swoop’s exit is of no concern to YOW. Whatever they did serve was pathetic and short lived. My only worry is if Flair changes their priorities to filling Swoop’s void. Then YOW won’t be seeing new route announcement for a while.

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Swoop’s exit is of no concern to YOW. Whatever they did serve was pathetic and short lived. My only worry is if Flair changes their priorities to filling Swoop’s void. Then YOW won’t be seeing new route announcement for a while.

I’m sure Porter will fill in, although at a higher fare.

I have a hutch they’ll launch arrived to Vegas this winter

[originalmuffins]

Oh well, Flair services Ottawa, Swoop doesn't. Westjet can stick to it's west and losing Swoop means nothing for us as a negative.

As a positive, Flair gets a better hold on the budget airlines. Flair, if you'd like to continue with Ottawa as a hub for low cost airfare, no complaints here - please do! Would be really nice to see Flair double down on Ottawa like Porter is doing, would be a great combo for CA and USA flights.

The combination of Flair, Porter, and some intl air routes would allow YOW to flourish.

[Truenorth00]

I worry that Flair could eat into Porter's business.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I worry that Flair could eat into Porter's business.

Different userbase imo. Porter is essentially taking over as the primary airline for Ottawa as its their hub, but Flair would just give the cheap flight options for those who want to travel barebones or need to save some $$$ out of Ottawa. But it is a valid concern.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I worry that Flair could eat into Porter's business.

I see the two coexisting here just fine but not seeing Flair really grow beyond their two based aircraft anytime soon.

Today’s departure count: 64

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I see the two coexisting here just fine but not seeing Flair really grow beyond their two based aircraft anytime soon.

Today’s departure count: 64

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

If they did base a third here, I wonder if it will be for new routes or to strengthen frequency on existing ones. Or both.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I see the two coexisting here just fine but not seeing Flair really grow beyond their two based aircraft anytime soon.

Today’s departure count: 64

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

What's the utilization cycle for LCCs like Flair? How much time do they get out of aircraft based here?

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I worry that Flair could eat into Porter's business.

Agree with others, Porter and Flair look at two completely different demographics. Porter is more business oriented whereas flair is leisure and budget conscious.

Also, in the graphic for the new Montreal airport being built by Porter, there are several Flair planes visible. My guess is that they are planning on sharing the facility with other airlines, such as Flair.

[RomanR27]

First Air North flight of the season inbound from Yellowknife.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 67

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0 - update: 5 - all PD

No more AC YTZ flying until after Labour Day.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

Agree with others, Porter and Flair look at two completely different demographics. Porter is more business oriented whereas flair is leisure and budget conscious.

Also, in the graphic for the new Montreal airport being built by Porter, there are several Flair planes visible. My guess is that they are planning on sharing the facility with other airlines, such as Flair.

Yeah, in fact they would probably go hand in hand at driving up total passengers in a year for YOW. I for one would welcome Flair setting up shop in Ottawa more definitively. AC and Westjet have pretty much abandoned YOW, which I am glad Porter saw that opportunity and jumped on it - because they weren't being appreciated at YTZ when they wanted to expand (I'm sure YOW is happy for Porter to expand as much as they want).

Flair can operate cheap flights to US destinations (Florida, California, NY, Nevada) and Western Canada (Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton).

Porter would essentially service Ottawa throughout Canada and USA, and be an important transit hub for Eastern Canada and other various places such as Northern Ontario (Thunder Bay is already being utilized for that, I was on a flight from YYZ to YOW where 25% of the flight was transiting to Thunder Bay - they mentioned the number in comparison due to worries of the transit folk missing their flight, but they made it!).

Hoping for both of their success in our market (YOW).

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

I’m sure Porter will fill in, although at a higher fare.

I have a hutch they’ll launch arrived to Vegas this winter

I am hoping I am wrong but I don’t think LAS will be introduced this year. In fact, I don’t think Porter will introduce any US destinations from YOW until next year. There are too many Canadian destinations they have not touched down in. Maybe YYZ to Florida but I can’t really see anything else this year. Again, I hope I’m wrong.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I am hoping I am wrong but I don’t think LAS will be introduced this year. In fact, I don’t think Porter will introduce any US destinations from YOW until next year. There are too many Canadian destinations they have not touched down in. Maybe YYZ to Florida but I can’t really see anything else this year. Again, I hope I’m wrong.

I'd actually be surprised if PD don't announce YOW-Florida for this winter, especially with AC's big capacity cut (it's not like demand is disappearing) and who knows at this point what WS will look like for YOW-sun route this winter. The only YOW-Florida gain thus far is an extra weekly SFB on F8. The PD press release for the YOW-YVR announcement basically hinted at 'more is coming soon', so I'm optimistic.

"Ottawa is positioned as a critical part of Porter's growing North American network," said Kevin Jackson, executive vice president and chief commercial officer, Porter Airlines. "We will continue building our presence in YOW and providing a superior level of service and travel options for economy travellers."

Today’s departure count: 74

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

[Dominion301]

Here were Flair's March 2023 YOW-Florida load factors someone else posted elsewhere:

Ottawa - Sanford: 76.20%
Ottawa - Ft. Lauderdale: 76.90%

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Here were Flair's March 2023 YOW-Florida load factors someone else posted elsewhere:

Ottawa - Sanford: 76.20%
Ottawa - Ft. Lauderdale: 76.90%

I'd be interested to see how that compares with AC and WS (on MCO). To my uninformed eyes that seems low given it includes March Break period, but I really have no point of reference for that assumption.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I'd actually be surprised if PD don't announce YOW-Florida for this winter, especially with AC's big capacity cut (it's not like demand is disappearing) and who knows at this point what WS will look like for YOW-sun route this winter. The only YOW-Florida gain thus far is an extra weekly SFB on F8. The PD press release for the YOW-YVR announcement basically hinted at 'more is coming soon', so I'm optimistic.



Today’s departure count: 74

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

On Porter's website, under their 'hub airport' section, it only lists YTZ, YYZ, and YOW.

Further, they list YOW within their connecting flight information as well.

I would agree that I think Porter would announce something to Florida (or a warm, southern destination), for this winter. It'll be shoulder season for intra-Canada travel and domestic travel really drops within the winter seasons.

It's getting late to announce an intra-Canada route like YYC, YEG, or YYT to be able to start in time to hit the peak season.