The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[cranes]

https://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/performance-measures.aspx

GRT Performance Dashboard - Updated as of March 2023

System Ridership: This dashboard shows GRT's system ridership by month since 2019. Ridership is a record of an overall journey of a passenger which includes when they paid a fare and all the transfers the person makes. For example, a passenger who pays a cash fare for the initial trip and then transfers to a second bus to complete their journey is counted as one ride. Ridership data are derived from a combination of fare transactions, historical transfer rates and boardings derived from Automatic Passenger Counting systems (APC) of conventional buses and LRT.

System Boardings: This dashboard shows GRT's system boardings by month since 2019. Boardings are records of how may people stepped onto a bus or LRT during a trip. Unlike ridership, a boarding does not separate out who has paid a fare and who boarded with a transfer. For example, a rider who pays a cash fare for their trip and then transfers to a second bus to complete their journey is counted as one trip, but two boardings. Boardings data are derived from Automatic Passenger Counting (APC) systems equipped in conventional buses and LRT. It includes sensors located on top of vehicle doors to detect passengers boarding and alighting.

ION LRT Ridership


ION LRT Boardings


GRT System Ridership


GRT System Boardings

[nname]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

For a city that spreads out into the hinterlands of the Valley, getting across the region is a painfully slow experience and there is no transit connections between Abbotsford/Chilliwack and Langley/Surrey except for one lone local bus that is very infrequent and if you needed to get downtown it would take 2 hours and multiple transfers.

Well, it takes 2 hours but there's only 1 transfer (at Lougheed) to go from Chilliwack to Downtown. But consider the distance is about 110km and take about 1.5 hours to drive in peak hours.

Compare that to Toronto, you'll be talking about Kitchener/St. Catherine/Barrie to Toronto. Yes there's a Go train running all day or at least during peak hours, but it still taking almost 2 hours.

As for commuter rail to Chilliwack? Yes it is possible but it's guaranteed to take much longer than 2 hours, given the circuitous route and the state of current Fraser River crossings. They would have to fix those first and that alone would probably take a billion or more. And after all that, you save probably 15min for those maybe 10-15k who take such a long trip each day.

[Doady]

Nice to see GRT fully recovered, ridership set to match or surpass 2019. Brampton already exceeded pre-pandemic ridership in 2022. I am not so optimistic about the TTC.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There we go. I was also unsure what you meant there. So you get a $1.10 rebate by buying tickets or loading your Presto (?)

Ottawa's rebate between cash and Presto is a whopping 5 cents. At $3.70 (Presto single ride), it's a bargain compared to Brampton, apparently.

I'm guessing it's a way for these suburban agencies to encourage regular frequent riders, which Ottawa has no lack of. TTC doesn't offer much of a discount either (the monthly pass is insane).

[Dengler Avenue]

I am not so optimistic about the TTC.

I wonder if transit safety’s becoming an issue.

[Metro-One]

So just saw a video on Twitter of some punk kid lighting off a rather large firework on a crowded bus in the Toronto area. The guy points it right into the back of the bus with a bunch of people there.

I really hope he has been apprehended and will receive at least some form of punishment.

If someone did that on a bus I was riding I would probably tackle them.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I wonder if transit safety’s becoming an issue.

For the number of trips on the system, I think the rate of incidents is low. But those incidents are still disturbing to people. I don't know how the TTC compares to other large transit operators.

I feel pretty safe, though my use is usually limited to a fairly short subway trip from Union Station on the days I go into the office. However, I don't feel like I'd be a good "target" for violence either.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So just saw a video on Twitter of some punk kid lighting off a rather large firework on a crowded bus in the Toronto area. The guy points it right into the back of the bus with a bunch of people there.

I really hope he has been apprehended and will receive at least some form of punishment.

If someone did that on a bus I was riding I would probably tackle them.

Update: Punk 14yr old girl arrested for fireworks stunt:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/firework-ttc-bus-toronto-1.6861183

[GeneralLea]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

For the number of trips on the system, I think the rate of incidents is low. But those incidents are still disturbing to people. I don't know how the TTC compares to other large transit operators.

I feel pretty safe, though my use is usually limited to a fairly short subway trip from Union Station on the days I go into the office. However, I don't feel like I'd be a good "target" for violence either.

Yeah, the incidence rate is quite low, but the media has played a good role in amplifying the idea of how "dangerous" the subways are getting. Sure, it can be questionable at some times of day, especially for a woman by herself, but it's not as bad as it's really made out to be.
Then again, I'm saying this as someone who would not be generally "targeted" for a violent crime.

[Doady]

TTC violence increased 46% in 2022. TTC ridership increased 49% in 2022. Wow. Who would have thought? But of course the media won't bother to look at the ridership numbers, and the politicians are going to exploit it for their own personal gain.

TTC ridership recovery is slow, but in line with other big cities with lots of office workers. That's why I said I am not so optimistic about TTC recovery compared to systems like Brampton which serve mostly industrial workers.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Doady

Who would have thought? But of course the media won't bother to look at the ridership numbers, and the politicians are going to exploit it for their own personal gain.

Yep. Can't let a sensational moment go without capitalizing on it.

[Reecemartin]

Really exciting to see that Bloor-Yonge will be getting platform screen doors, here are some of my thoughts on it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na_uEr4Tk94

[ssiguy]

I wish they would put platform screen doors on the Canada Line. Those boarding areas are incredibly thin, dangerously so.

I agree with PSDs but I really prefer the ones that only go up about 2 meters. The ones that go to the roof make me feel claustrophobic. I feel like I'm in a cage.

[Reecemartin]

Few transit projects offer as many benefits at a cost as reasonable as a second downtown rail station for Toronto, which is why in today's video I make the ultimate case for Cityplace Station at Front and Spadina. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/jfjs6wKhWfc

[ssiguy]

Thanks Reece for another great vid.

I'm curious as to why Metrolinx is building a station there but just for the Barrie Line. What's their logic behind such a move?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Few transit projects offer as many benefits at a cost as reasonable as a second downtown rail station for Toronto, which is why in today's video I make the ultimate case for Cityplace Station at Front and Spadina. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/jfjs6wKhWfc

Thank you Reece, there's definitely a need for a capacity upgrade. But instead of a second station, how about turning Union into a true terminus for most services and extending the trainshed east and west? Remove the through" of many of the tracks (e.g., Lakeshore West separated from Lakeshore East, so both terminate at Union rather than continuing from one to another) and keep the through-service for VIA?

Adding a second "lower" level to Union's platforms is another idea. Costs are a key issue. Tunnelling is expensive! But if the demand makes the economics worthwhile, then that's something to consider. IMO it's something that should have been considered when the new lower concourses were developed, but missed opportunities happen.

The "historic" nature of the old train shed seems so contrived to me. It's not compatible with all current train operation ideas (e.g., electrification). And it's not especially beautiful, unless one is a hard core train buff.

I do agree about the fly-under issue on the corridor to the west.

[WhipperSnapper]

Rebuilding the inefficient train shed was one of the most befuddling decisions anywhere but Toronto

The PATH, Bay Street, etc. pre-pandemic were overflowing during rush hour rushes. It's a much larger situation than finding room for more capacity at Union. Increasing capacity through alternative stations than expanding Union will have better results.

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Thank you Reece, there's definitely a need for a capacity upgrade. But instead of a second station, how about turning Union into a true terminus for most services and extending the trainshed east and west? Remove the through" of many of the tracks (e.g., Lakeshore West separated from Lakeshore East, so both terminate at Union rather than continuing from one to another) and keep the through-service for VIA?

Adding a second "lower" level to Union's platforms is another idea. Costs are a key issue. Tunnelling is expensive! But if the demand makes the economics worthwhile, then that's something to consider. IMO it's something that should have been considered when the new lower concourses were developed, but missed opportunities happen.

The "historic" nature of the old train shed seems so contrived to me. It's not compatible with all current train operation ideas (e.g., electrification). And it's not especially beautiful, unless one is a hard core train buff.

I do agree about the fly-under issue on the corridor to the west.

The eventual plan is to through-operate Kitchener, Lakeshore E and W, and Stouffville. Transfer-less trips across town, and you don't need to turn around trains (which takes time and reduces capacity - the Finch turnaround reduces capacity on YUS, for example).

As for building a second level below the existing station, look at how East Side Access went. A new surface station would be cheaper and expand the reach of GO transit in DT.

The train shed thing is stupid, but that's what we're stuck with.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Thank you Reece, there's definitely a need for a capacity upgrade. But instead of a second station, how about turning Union into a true terminus for most services and extending the trainshed east and west? Remove the through" of many of the tracks (e.g., Lakeshore West separated from Lakeshore East, so both terminate at Union rather than continuing from one to another) and keep the through-service for VIA?

Adding a second "lower" level to Union's platforms is another idea. Costs are a key issue. Tunnelling is expensive! But if the demand makes the economics worthwhile, then that's something to consider. IMO it's something that should have been considered when the new lower concourses were developed, but missed opportunities happen.

The "historic" nature of the old train shed seems so contrived to me. It's not compatible with all current train operation ideas (e.g., electrification). And it's not especially beautiful, unless one is a hard core train buff.

I do agree about the fly-under issue on the corridor to the west.

There is a lot here, so I will try to unpack each.

1) What is wrong with thru GO trains? There are 6 lines. Why not have them paired such that when most come in, they do not just end. By doing that, you are forcing potential transfers on riders for no reason.

2) Building a second level isn't a bad idea. One thing you may run into is the fact there is a subway line somewhere here. You also have the underground Streetcar station near here. This may mean a really deep underground section Much link Montreal's REM, when GO becomes RER, then would be a good time to put all of those lines at Union to be underground and leave the surface for intercity and non RER GO lines.

[ScreamingViking]

I noted the "terminus" idea simply as a potential way to increase train capacity at Union by extending platforms and basically using each one for two services. There will be drawbacks to that idea too. There's nothing wrong with through-trains, though when GO started running Lakeshore service that way every delay for LSW also affected LSE and vice versa; whether it's any better now is TBD, because GO's schedule has only recently returned to something akin to what it was pre-pandemic (at least on Lakeshore).

The train corridor is limited, hemmed in by development on both sides. There are also the two yards to consider (Bathurst North and Don) which could be affected depending on the location of a new companion train station; Willowbrook could be used for more train storage, but that may come at a cost of operating some trains over longer distance without generating passenger revenue. The subway runs under Front St. on the other side of Union so that shouldn't be much of an issue, but the Queens Quay streetcar line may be one. And **if** HSR ever happens, that has to be considered too.

Pedestrian congestion is certainly one to consider as well. The Union renovation has provided much more concourse space and platform access, but those people still go somewhere after they depart the station, and arriving to a single point makes the walk to get outbound trains frustrating.

All the options need to be compared for cost and benefit. It's a complicated problem. Historical decisions about the tracks in downtown Toronto might be quite different today had all this been included in them!

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There is a lot here, so I will try to unpack each.

1) What is wrong with thru GO trains? There are 6 lines. Why not have them paired such that when most come in, they do not just end. By doing that, you are forcing potential transfers on riders for no reason.

2) Building a second level isn't a bad idea. One thing you may run into is the fact there is a subway line somewhere here. You also have the underground Streetcar station near here. This may mean a really deep underground section Much link Montreal's REM, when GO becomes RER, then would be a good time to put all of those lines at Union to be underground and leave the surface for intercity and non RER GO lines.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I noted the "terminus" idea simply as a potential way to increase train capacity at Union by extending platforms and basically using each one for two services. There will be drawbacks to that idea too. There's nothing wrong with through-trains, though when GO started running Lakeshore service that way every delay for LSW also affected LSE and vice versa; whether it's any better now is TBD, because GO's schedule has only recently returned to something akin to what it was pre-pandemic (at least on Lakeshore).

I understand how delays can cause a problem. I am guessing they have extra trains if that delay is going to be enough to cause problems.

Extending platforms could have a problem with people getting on the wrong train even though they are on the right platform and right track. Remember, the cars do not have destination signs.

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

The train corridor is limited, hemmed in by development on both sides. There are also the two yards to consider (Bathurst North and Don) which could be affected depending on the location of a new companion train station; Willowbrook could be used for more train storage, but that may come at a cost of operating some trains over longer distance without generating passenger revenue. The subway runs under Front St. on the other side of Union so that shouldn't be much of an issue, but the Queens Quay streetcar line may be one. And **if** HSR ever happens, that has to be considered too.

I doubt HSR is going to use the mess that is Union as it is right now. My thinking is that it may see tunneling or, maybe it will be elevated through that area.

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Pedestrian congestion is certainly one to consider as well. The Union renovation has provided much more concourse space and platform access, but those people still go somewhere after they depart the station, and arriving to a single point makes the walk to get outbound trains frustrating.

All the options need to be compared for cost and benefit. It's a complicated problem. Historical decisions about the tracks in downtown Toronto might be quite different today had all this been included in them!

Passenger congestion will not be solved by more tracks.