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  #1201  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2023, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Norman Bates View Post
Could you see that configuration applied anywhere in our region?
I’ve said this before, but I would’ve put a diverging diamond interchange at the new Montreal Road station. That would’ve allowed the bus platforms to be in the centre, making circulation up and down from the O train better. The main disadvantage of DDIs is that pedestrian access isn’t very good, although they aren’t that great at any highway interchange configuration (a DDI might well have provided better pedestrian access than the current design). Regardless, at Montreal Road station there won’t be very much pedestrian traffic to and from the station. it’s all moot anyways, as the station is already under construction.
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  #1202  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2023, 4:37 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Although this is off-topic, I will respond here, since this is where the question was asked. If more discussion on this topic is desired, I suggest that we take it over to a different thread. (I have not looked to see if a dedicated DDI thread exists.)

I’m not sure that a DDI could have been used (efficiently, anyways) under the OR174 at Montreal Road.

The first obstacle is that a DDI is wide so that the cross-overs can be at a higher angle. This, in itself, would not be a bad thing, since it could create a wide central bus platform, as you imagined. However, the approaches to the DDI would also be much wider; resulting in more land requirements on either end of the DDI.

Bridge piers, for the OR174 spans, would be in the central island, using room that might be used for the bus platform and vertical access. That island space will be more crowded than you imagine, I think, since it will house the bus platforms, piers, wide stairs, and two elevators. The stairs would take more room than you might imagine, too. Remember, that to climb the 17’, or so (I don’t know the actual vertical distance, but I am assuming about 14’ of road clearance plus a 3’ thick structure), there will be a few flights. The lowest one could, maybe, be under the roadway, but as the stairs climb, there will need to be an open stairwell to maintain headroom. And, to maintain roadway clearance, those stairs will need to be entirely within the central island. That stairwell will need to be entirely within the middle of O-Train platform area, since it, obviously, can’t remove a section of the highway. Same for the elevators.

And, remember, this central island would also still be the sidewalk passing under the OR174 and O-Train station. It needs to maintain a free path through, clear of obstacles. Were you thinking of still having the O-Train turnstiles on that level?

I have the feeling that putting a DDI into the Montreal Road corridor, as it passes under the OR174 and O-Train station, would have required a lot more area and cost. And I’m not convinced that any benefits would be worth it.

By putting the O-Train station accesses off of side bus platforms, Montreal Road could remain at its existing width, with the turnstiles, stairs, and elevators moved out, between the lanes of the OR174. This also moves the vertical access to the O-Train platform out to its ends, leaving a large, less-encumbered central platform for the train.
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  #1203  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2023, 10:19 PM
On Edge On Edge is offline
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Montreal Road station f

Maybe we should start a thread about the Montreal Road station.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 12:14 PM
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O-Train Snapshot Update - Trim to Montreal Station - February 27, 2023

This video provides a snapshot update of the current progress seen on the Eastern Extension of O-Train Line 1, which will extend service East of Blair station to Trim Road in Orleans. Stations seen in this video include Trim, Place d'Orleans, Convent Glen, Jeanne d'Arc and Montreal. The rail flyover east of Blair is also featured near the end of the video.

Video Link
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  #1205  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sseguin View Post
O-Train Snapshot Update - Trim to Montreal Station - February 27, 2023

This video provides a snapshot update of the current progress seen on the Eastern Extension of O-Train Line 1, which will extend service East of Blair station to Trim Road in Orleans. Stations seen in this video include Trim, Place d'Orleans, Convent Glen, Jeanne d'Arc and Montreal. The rail flyover east of Blair is also featured near the end of the video.

Video Link
Amazing video! Thank you for sharing. Does anyone know why Covent Glen station is so far behind the rest of the station on the east line. It looks like they are just starting on this one when all the other stations look liel they are 90% complete.
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  #1206  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 1:24 AM
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They had to do a lot of moving around of the highway to enable the construction, so it definitely played into the timeline, but I'm sure by summer we will see some substantial advancing of the work there.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 4:06 PM
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  #1208  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Don't say anything about the lack of platform covering, don't say anything about the lack of platform covering...
Montreal Road station now has a full canopy along the platform, which is not the case in the video I posted. No glass yet though. Not as good as it could be, but it's something, I guess.
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  #1209  
Old Posted May 6, 2023, 12:03 PM
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O-Train Snapshot Update - Trim to Montreal Station - May 5, 2023.

This video provides a snapshot update of the current progress seen on the Eastern Extension of O-Train Line 1, which will extend service East of Blair station to Trim Road in Orleans.

Video Link
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  #1211  
Old Posted May 20, 2023, 12:55 AM
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Good progress there...
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  #1212  
Old Posted May 23, 2023, 9:38 PM
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Centenaries going up from Blait to Jeanne d'Arc. Won't be long before the initial test track is complete and ready for trains.

I continue to be impressed with KEV, their prioritization and work ethic. They seem very organized.
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  #1213  
Old Posted May 24, 2023, 2:45 PM
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I was just thinking exactly the same!

I've had the chance to see almost daily construction progress of both the east extension and the Line 2 work at Carleton and it's a worlds difference. Most of the time work seemed totally stalled or half the crew was standing and watching where as work on the east line always seemed to be operating at near full capacity.

It really gives me optimism that the launch of this extension will be much smoother.
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  #1214  
Old Posted May 24, 2023, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cmacleod View Post
I was just thinking exactly the same!

I've had the chance to see almost daily construction progress of both the east extension and the Line 2 work at Carleton and it's a worlds difference. Most of the time work seemed totally stalled or half the crew was standing and watching where as work on the east line always seemed to be operating at near full capacity.

It really gives me optimism that the launch of this extension will be much smoother.
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  #1215  
Old Posted May 28, 2023, 2:38 AM
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  #1216  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 4:28 PM
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My God, what is up with these Councillors? The new design is the correct way to do it. She wants buses filled with 30-40 people to wait for individual cars instead of c=individual cars to wait a minute for the bus to drop off and pick up passengers?

The old design had bus passengers in the path of bikes anyway. Bikes will no to slow down and look when they see a bus parked. Not complicated.

Honestly, I thought the first design was much more of a maze, with MUPs instead of segregation, lanes veering off left and right, the bus bays (which were removed across the City years ago).

Quote:
City councillor wary of overpass 'maze' at Orléans LRT station

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News · Posted: May 29, 2023

Laura Dudas says a redesign of the overpass at Orléans Boulevard is unsafe

An Ottawa city councillor is calling plans for an overpass at a future Orléans LRT station a safety risk and a recipe for gridlock in her community.

Orléans West-Innes Coun. Laura Dudas said she's been flooded with emails from concerned residents after making social media posts detailing what she sees as flaws with the design for Orléans Boulevard at the new Convent Glen station.

"I think that, as a whole, the design is faulty," Dudas said in an interview.

She said residents were initially presented with a very different design, with space for buses to pull out of traffic.



The new design dispenses with that.

It foresees just two traffic lanes — one in each direction — which Dudas warns would force cars to queue roughly every eight minutes as buses stop at the station.

"Everyone who's travelling through this area is going to get jammed," she said.



City trying to 'cram' everything in

Dudas said the design sticks bike lanes directly through the path of pedestrians exiting buses, calling it a "disaster waiting to happen."

The new plan creates a "maze" of people and vehicles, she said.

"They're trying to cram everything into one small space. And at the end of the day nobody benefits from it."

Residents first saw the new design in January, Dudas said, though in her view it was "buried" in a mountain of other details about the project.

She said she shared her worries with city staff, OC Transpo and contractors without getting anything more than assurances that they'd take her concerns back for consideration.

Dudas said she's also forwarded residents' concerns to OC Transpo, and is planning a meeting to look for solutions — like potentially concentrating the bike lanes on one side of the road, or finding a way for buses to pull out of traffic.

Meets safety, accessibility standards: city

In a statement to CBC on Sunday, the City of Ottawa said the current design meets its standards for accessibility and safety.

A traffic analysis found the proposed configuration would only create "minimal impacts to motor vehicle traffic," said Michael Morgan, director of the city's rail construction program.

"While the possibility exists to make modifications to the design of the bridge at this time, it would be a costly variation that would impact the project schedule and conflict with the results of previous public consultation efforts," Morgan said in the statement.

"Notwithstanding the status of the project, we have committed to reviewing and assessing various design iterations as well as safety and traffic concerns with the councillor."

'Very messy'

Even so, a lot of residents are angry about the design, said Mireille Brownhill, president of the Convent Glen-Orléans Wood Community Association.

Some of the concerns she's heard from the community revolve around traffic congestion near the station and she's personally worried that collisions between drivers, cyclists and pedestrians could increase.

"I think it will be very messy," Brownhill said.

While she's happy to see cycling and pedestrian infrastructure included in the design, Brownhill isn't convinced any major changes will ever take place.

"It's exceedingly irritating that we keep going through this again," she said. "They present a design, people are upset about it, but [the city is] not actually going to change it."

Dudas also wants the original design to be revisited, but with construction well underway, she worries it might be too late.

Still, the outpouring from those opposing the design has been almost unanimous, Dudas said.

"At the 11th hour, as this is being built, we need an actual proposal that reflects the needs of the community," she said.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ov...t-glen-traffic-transit-station-1.6856585
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  #1217  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 5:29 PM
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Nobody will ever use that station so its a moot point
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  #1218  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Nobody will ever use that station so its a moot point
Between bus-train transfers and a few walk/bike-ups, I think this station will likely have a higher ridership than Cyrville today. Certainly bottom 10 in ridership, but maybe upper-bottom 10s. 3
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  #1219  
Old Posted May 31, 2023, 10:04 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Ah . . . where to start with the staff’s Final Design?

The good points:
  • The traffic lanes have been straightened out.
  • The traffic speed has been reduced.
  • There is a sidewalk on each side of the bridge.
And, I think that I’ve run out of ‘good points’.
Oh.
  • There is a Drop-Off point on each side.
Drawbacks:
  • Despite the lower speed limit, the lanes widen in front of the station accesses – which will encourage drivers to speed up.
  • There is a concrete central barricade that restricts mid-bridge crossing to a ‘Beg-Button’-controlled crosswalk.
  • There will need to be ‘Beg-Buttons’ at the sidewalks and on the medians that contain the bus platforms.
  • Unfortunately, that crosswalk will be used often because cyclists will need to walk their bikes across the road to get home – since they can (legally) only ride in one direction per side.
  • The bike parking is on the narrow medians between the bike lanes and the traffic lanes – which means that disorganized bike parking could encroach on the travel lanes to either side.
  • Bikes parked in the eastern parking area may be walked back along the crowded north-bound bus platform to reach the crosswalk.
  • Cyclists must cycle past the station access, and between the bus platform and sidewalk to reach the bike parking. This increases bike / pedestrian interactions.
  • Those using the bus will need to cross bike lanes to access the station. There are ‘Shark Teeth’ shown in the illustration for the pedestrian crossing of the bike lanes. Are these ‘Beg-Button’ activated? Are cyclists legally obligated to stop?
  • The bus platforms are narrow – which could make maneuvering a wheel chair more difficult.
  • The stop for the north-bound bus is oddly far from the eastern station access. (I expect that this is so that a ‘platoon’ of buses can stop without blocking the crosswalk. A surprising requirement since there is currently a single bus route passing every half-hour.)
  • Although traffic will be temporarily stopped behind buses, both buses and traffic will, likely, be much more inconvenienced by the crosswalk. The 20 seconds of bus dwell time every half-hour will be dwarfed compared to the 20 second pedestrian crossing time that will happen on a random basis, likely linked with the much more frequent movements of the LRT.
  • The Drop Off areas have very narrow medians between them and the bike lanes. Will an open car door interfere with the bike lane, since approaching bike will be coming from behind? i.e., is there the possibility of a cyclist getting ‘Doored’ or a passenger stepping out and into the bike lane? Will the person who is dropped off walk along the median to get to the crosswalk or station? Will they need to push a ‘Beg-Button’ to cross the bike lane?

OK, I’ll stop there, but I’m sure that I haven’t listed all of the drawbacks. Basically, this does not appear to be an improvement on the Initial Design. It has the potential to be much more disruptive to traffic of all kinds – bikes, cars, and buses – while providing few increased benefits over the Initial Design.

Since the additional bike lanes along Orleans Boulevard are only recommended to be added to the TMP, I suspect that they do not exist yet. This gives the opportunity to push them onto the east side, creating a bidirectional bikeway. The Initial Design used this concept. Expanding on that, and trying to combine the best features of the two presented designs, I suggest an alternative design (that I illustrate with an edited version of the staff’s images).


An Alternative Design:


Although not perfect, I would suggest that it is an improvement over the staff’s Final Design.

Benefits:
  • The car / bus travel lanes are straight and predictable.
  • The lanes are narrow, with the recaptured space dedicated to pedestrians.
  • I would suggest that the speed limit still be reduced to 40 KPH in this area.
  • There is a sidewalk on each side of the bridge.
  • There is no central barrier to crossing mid-bridge, but the requirement to cross has been reduced, or eliminated. If crossing is required then the distance is only two narrow lanes, and the traffic speed is slow. (A central barricade might also restrict the passage of an emergency vehicle, if vehicles block the way.)
  • The bus stops are situated immediately in front of the station accesses.
  • The bus platforms are wide and long enough to provide space for multiple buses to stop at a time, if the need arises.
  • Crossing of a bikeway is only required on the east side, and it could be a signal-controlled crossing – although that might not be necessary.
  • Bike parking is off of the bridge, allowing it to be easily expanded, if needed.
  • Those arriving by bicycle can park before they reach the station, reducing potential conflicts.
  • Returning home by bike does not require crossing the road, as the bikeway is bidirectional. Cyclists will predominantly use the east station access for arriving and leaving.
  • The north-bound Drop-Off area is still a narrow median away from the bikeway, but the bike traffic in the closest lane (the lane that would be affected the most by an open car door) is approaching from the front, and, therefore, more easily seen.

But, of course, there are also drawbacks:
  • There is only one general vehicle travel lane per direction – reduced from the four total lanes before the LRT extension.
  • There are no bus bays so traffic will need to wait for buses which are stopped at the station. However, the delays for traffic, assuming status quo bus service, will only be about 20 seconds every half-hour, since the crosswalk has been removed. Buses are not delayed more than by a stop-request.

Sometimes there is a benefit to Keeping It Simple.
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  #1220  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2023, 3:44 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
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They claim buses will arrive every 8 minutes.
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