Hamilton's B-Line LRT construction

[SteelTown]

^ Friday, June 02, 2023 @ 10:00 AM

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

^ Friday, June 02, 2023 @ 10:00 AM

I believe Mike meant the next, next meeting, not the current one for which the agenda is already online I'm pretty sure.

[SFUVancouver]

Thanks for posting the PPT. Seems like many (most?) of the separate side stations are being revised to be single/central platforms.

[Fruitloops]

Scott Radley once again nails it about the mess downtown traffic will be when LRT construction is in full swing and Main is converted.

Many like myself will simply bypass downtown. Too bad bc all the constuction and tinkering will cause a lot of spending public to go elsewhere.

Always mentioned re Main is safety...good thing.
Never mentioned is enforcement. when is the last time you saw the cops ticketing speeding, illegal turns etc downtown?

[TheRitsman]

It's downtown. There's gonna be traffic...

[Crapht]

Perfect. Fill Main King Cannon and more with speed cameras. Red light cameras. Right turn on red cameras. Make them pay until their license is taken away. I know plenty of people will complain about traffic and if it makes you avoid downtown then your loss. And I know plenty of people will say they can’t ride a bike but whatever. Car obsession needs to die.

[Crapht]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

It's downtown. There's gonna be traffic...

Exactly.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Crapht

Perfect. Fill Main King Cannon and more with speed cameras. Red light cameras. Right turn on red cameras. Make them pay until their license is taken away. I know plenty of people will complain about traffic and if it makes you avoid downtown then your loss. And I know plenty of people will say they can’t ride a bike but whatever. Car obsession needs to die.

100%. Downtown will never thrive on car domination. Cars are too inefficient. We need transit and places people actually want too walk and bicycle. People don't make the trip to James St for it's 4-5 car lanes.

[urban_planner]

I can't wait to go downtown once Main street is converted to two way. It's going to be great. Walking along Main right now is goofy.

[Innsertnamehere]

It's just ridiculous to think a massive, 4+ lane car sewer is reasonable in a major downtown. See ya later - but we also gotta make sure we get the details of the conversion right and don't just think "ahh, well, f*** cars amiright" and just completely throttle vehicle capacity into the core to a fraction of what it was.

There is a huge chasm of solutions between a 5-lane highway through the middle of the city and a 1-2 lane little cart-path which can allow cars to access the downtown while ensuring pedestrians don't get run over every other day.

The proposed conversion gets pretty close to what I think is reasonable, though I have a few concerns and think car capacity is destroyed in a few spots for little discernable gain (that useless green space next to city hall is a prime example). It needs to be a balancing act - Downtown right now is dead because it's a car sewer, but downtown still needs to be somewhat accessible by car as it is ultimately how most people get around in a mid-sized city like Hamilton. That will be changing over time, but isn't going to go away.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Fruitloops

Many like myself will simply bypass downtown. Too bad bc all the constuction and tinkering will cause a lot of spending public to go elsewhere.

Always mentioned re Main is safety...good thing.
Never mentioned is enforcement. when is the last time you saw the cops ticketing speeding, illegal turns etc downtown?

Many already do bypass downtown, albeit by driving right through it.

Is it reasonable to be able to travel across the centre of a largish city on an arterial street at a steady 60 km/h clip? (if timed right for the traffic signals, it's still do-able).

Also, Radley has conflated the result of a temporary change in a suburban road network with a permanent one in a more urban setting, that has its east-west through-streets spaced much closer together than those in the upper city. There will be an adjustment period for auto traffic for sure, and it will not seem reasonable to those used to cutting across town in cars on the one-ways. But the lower city's network has been set up at one extreme -- to serve through auto traffic -- for decades! And while I've benefited from that personally (I used to be able to drive from east Hamilton to Mac in under 15 mins) it never seemed reasonable either, especially compared to driving in other similarly-sized Ontario cities.

The better comparison will be the changes in person-trips along the main corridors of the lower city's network once transit improvements are made, rather than strictly thinking about impacts on auto trips. And a 2-way Main will help once sections of King are restricted during LRT construction, so better to get on that now before those disruptions occur.

I do agree about enforcement. For example, Main between Gage and the Delta is a drag strip. When the light at Gage turns green, some drivers (motorcyclists especially) 🞵🞵🞵 it and I'd wager they're going far closer to 100 km/h than 50 by the midpoint of the block. I'm amazed nobody's been killed in just the 5 months I've been living in this area and hearing the roar of the racers, and I've yet to see police with radar. The 2-way conversion here will resolve some of that issue, but not all.

[Berklon]

Most of the people complaining about the Main conversion don't even go downtown. They just want Main to stay a highway so they can fly through the city. I'm not worried about the loss of business downtown as it'll be replaced by the increasing density that's continuing to happen.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Most of the people complaining about the Main conversion don't even go downtown. They just want Main to stay a highway so they can fly through the city. I'm not worried about the loss of business downtown as it'll be replaced by the increasing density that's continuing to happen.

Also, just people won't stop coming downtown. Nobody avoids going to do something they want to do in Toronto because of the traffic. Look at Dundas peak? It's an absolute SHITSHOW, and yet thousands flock there for the view.

Downtown Hamilton will if anything have more people coming downtown because it will be more comfortable to be downtown not in a car, and people will brave the traffic for it. It's not like when Disney on Ice is in town it's not already a disaster on Bay St and York, but yet popple come because it's an event they want to visit. With LRT they may just park further away and ride the train in.

I've already seen hundred come to the Toronto Rock via West Harbour Go, things will take time to shift, but temporary pain isn't worth skipping for long term gains. Hamilton will be better for the traffic chaos. And I say that as someone who drives and will be dealing with both that future traffic and the absolute 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 that LRT construction will bring. And I say Bring. It. On.

[matt602]

Ya'll really trying to pretend that inner city Hamilton was actually a NICE place to go/live when it was dominated by giant one-way urban highways? I've lived here for over 20 years and I've lived on many of those streets. It ain't pleasant. The progress the city has made just in the past 5 years with complete streets design has made it so much nicer to live in and be downtown than it ever was before. Just being able to have a conversation with the person next to you without yelling is enough to be enjoyable, never mind not having to worry that you'll be run down every time you try to exist on a sidewalk or cross a street. Enough of the 15 minute city.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by matt602

Enough of the 15 minute city.

A Bobra legacy quote. He may have said "20"... but what's the difference. The city is for people, not cars.

[TheRitsman]

I'm confused by the 15 minute city comment. The term "15 minute city" refers to a more bikable, transit friendly and walkable city. I'm guessing you were referring to a 15 minute driving city as a result?

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

Look what Toronto and other multi million persons cities have done to their main roads through their downtowns (reduced lanes widened sidewalks and in some cases even closed roads completely to vehicles) and it has only had positive outcomes on their downtowns. People want to walk, shop and dine downtown--- not drive as quickly as they possibly can through them --- and the ones that only care about car convenience don't spend much time downtown anyway so they can go play on the link or the QEW

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I'm confused by the 15 minute city comment. The term "15 minute city" refers to a more bikable, transit friendly and walkable city. I'm guessing you were referring to a 15 minute driving city as a result?

The current meaning is very different than what old Bob meant.

Bratina was interviewed by Steve Paikin on The Agenda years ago, to discuss LRT, and said something like "we like to call ourselves the 20-minute city" but he was referring to being able to drive anywhere in town within that timespan.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

The current meaning is very different than what old Bob meant.

Bratina was interviewed by Steve Paikin on The Agenda years ago, to discuss LRT, and said something like "we like to call ourselves the 20-minute city" but he was referring to being able to drive anywhere in town within that timespan.

Ahhh, I didn't get the reference apologies. With all the weird conspiracy theories and alt-right hate for 15 minute cities, the proper use of the term relating to active transportation I was just confused by what seemed like a contradiction, but now makes sense!

Damn commies making it easier for me to walk to the grocery store. True freedom is sitting in traffic and picking up 30lbs of food in a 4000lbs truck.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I'm confused by the 15 minute city comment. The term "15 minute city" refers to a more bikable, transit friendly and walkable city. I'm guessing you were referring to a 15 minute driving city as a result?

Yeah, I wasn't referring to that 15 minute city with the comment, more the ability to drive across the city in 15-20 mins. Probably shoulda just said 20.