Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[RomanR27]

There were two YOW-MEM flights tonight, both on 757s. There is another 757 scheduled to arrive tomorrow morning from MEM as well. I wonder if the A300 is gone?

[Harley613]

I saw a Cargojet 767-300 fly incredibly low over my house in Aylmer this afternoon, no more than 1500 feet! Very strange landing pattern.

[RomanR27]

I wonder if they are doing maintenance on 07/25, it looked like 14 was active all day despite winds favouring 07.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I saw a Cargojet 767-300 fly incredibly low over my house in Aylmer this afternoon, no more than 1500 feet! Very strange landing pattern.

Runway 14 ops (the least used runway) makes for some good spotting in Aylmer. I remember being at my aunt and uncle’s in Aylmer one summer afternoon/evening a few years ago and YOW was getting a pile of YYZ diversions. Great view of a bunch of extra widebodies.

Originally Posted by RomanR27

There were two YOW-MEM flights tonight, both on 757s. There is another 757 scheduled to arrive tomorrow morning from MEM as well. I wonder if the A300 is gone?

Interesting. No IND flight either?

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

I wonder if they are doing maintenance on 07/25, it looked like 14 was active all day despite winds favouring 07.

The NOTAM indicates that the RVR is unavailable on 07 and the PAPI lights on both 07 and 25, and the runway edge lights are unserviceable daily 1030-2200.
So I assume there is some maintenance going on there.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

There were two YOW-MEM flights tonight, both on 757s. There is another 757 scheduled to arrive tomorrow morning from MEM as well. I wonder if the A300 is gone?

FedEx 152/153 is still scheduled on the A310 for IND-YMX-IND.

Perhaps it's economically better for them to fly a B752 to their MEM hub instead.

FedEx is notorious for having flights in the southern US fly strange routes that go past large centres in case they have an increased in demand for cargo on certain days.

info

[RomanR27]

I actually saw the A300 taking off Saturday morning, wish I had known that was the last one

[RomanR27]

Today is the last day for the 77L on YOW-YVR before switching back to a 789 for a couple weeks until it gets dropped to a MAX. From the AC app:

AC342: Y is full, PY is 22/24 booked and 28/40 in J.
AC345: Y not fully booked, 20/24 booked in PY and 36/40 in J.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

I actually saw the A300 taking off Saturday morning, wish I had known that was the last one

I guess we'll have to wait for the weekend to see if the A300 via BUF and the A300 to EWR are also gone.

Tomorrow is showing FDX156 MEM-YOW arriving at 0732. FDX155 departs tonight for MEM at 2111.

Splitting an A300 with another station vs an exclusive 757 = capacity is probably about the same.

[Dominion301]

Coming soon to YOW. DND have procured two A330s from Kuwait Airways for introduction as transports: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airbus-a330-prime-minister-travel-1.6858381

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Coming soon to YOW. DND have procured two A330s from Kuwait Airways for introduction as transports: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airbus-a330-prime-minister-travel-1.6858381

Bad week to be an A300/310 at YOW

[mxg308]

From aeroroutes for AC:
Ottawa – Fort Lauderdale eff 02DEC23 Reduce from 5-7 to 4 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Newark Reduce from 18 to 7 weekly, CRJ900 replaces CRJ200
Ottawa – Orlando eff 05DEC23 Reduce from 4 to 2 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Tampa eff 18DEC23 Reduce from 3 to 1 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Washington Reagan eff 29OCT23 Reduce from 13 to 7 weekly, CRJ900 replaces CRJ200
Ottawa – Cancun
04NOV23 – 02DEC23 Increase from 1 to 2 weekly, rouge A319
eff 18DEC23 Reduce from 4 to 3 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Punta Cana eff 15DEC23 Increase from 2 to 3 weekly, rouge A319

YQB certainly getting more love from AC compared to YOW for winter sun destinations.

[RomanR27]

Interesting that the fourth PUJ flight they announced still isn't loaded.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by mxg308

From aeroroutes for AC:
Ottawa – Fort Lauderdale eff 02DEC23 Reduce from 5-7 to 4 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Newark Reduce from 18 to 7 weekly, CRJ900 replaces CRJ200
Ottawa – Orlando eff 05DEC23 Reduce from 4 to 2 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Tampa eff 18DEC23 Reduce from 3 to 1 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Washington Reagan eff 29OCT23 Reduce from 13 to 7 weekly, CRJ900 replaces CRJ200
Ottawa – Cancun
04NOV23 – 02DEC23 Increase from 1 to 2 weekly, rouge A319
eff 18DEC23 Reduce from 4 to 3 weekly, rouge A319
Ottawa – Punta Cana eff 15DEC23 Increase from 2 to 3 weekly, rouge A319

YQB certainly getting more love from AC compared to YOW for winter sun destinations.

The way AC just disregards YOW is ridiculous lol. Well, here's to Porter and Flair!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I think this is a good way of summing it up. To elaborate, Ottawa seems like a big city intent on making itself act and feel smaller than it actually is, whereas you see lots of other smaller cities aiming to punch above their weight. It's not any one particular group or entity within a city that decides which of the two directions to take, but rather it's the overall culture that dictates mindset.

Case in point, we are comparing our tallest buildings to Kitchener, and in the airport thread, our airport traffic to that of Halifax and Winnipeg, all cities which are much smaller than Ottawa. Meanwhile, you have similarly sized cities like Calgary and Edmonton, which blow Ottawa out of the water in terms of building height / design quality, and airport traffic.

On airport traffic, it's really due to our location between the behemoths that are Montreal and Toronto. Halifax and Winnipeg have no competition. Can't blame that on small town thinking.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 70

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

The way AC just disregards YOW is ridiculous lol. Well, here's to Porter and Flair!

For real. Apparently a year ago the excuse to not getting LHR back was because they needed to increase operations and recover what was lost in their hubs first. Then the excuse was there are no frames available. Over the past few months I’ve seen nothing but brand new routes implemented. I guess these new routes are much more important than re-establishing what once was in YOW furthering the speculation they are moving more towards the hub-spoke system. That’s fine though, my money goes to the airlines that do not consider YOW an afterthought.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

On airport traffic, it's really due to our location between the behemoths that are Montreal and Toronto. Halifax and Winnipeg have no competition. Can't blame that on small town thinking.

That's definitely a factor, but I think my point about Ottawa's culture actually perpetuates the problem more than what would occur naturally. I get the feeling we almost think of ourselves as second class citizens, living in a second class city and that we should have no choice but to connect via hubs like YUL or YYZ because we don't "deserve" our own direct flights. Even when direct options exist from YOW, many people opt for connections at other airports to save a bit of cash, which gives carriers the business case to continue shafting us by cutting our options and routing us through their hubs. On top of that, you have people driving to places like Ogdensburg or Syracuse to catch a regional flight so they can "begin" their journey from a US hub. It's hard to imagine why a resident of a 1.5M-sized metro would/should go to such lengths but here we are.

You're right that YHZ and YWG have no nearby competition, but shouldn't YEG experience the same problem as us with its proximity to YYC? Maybe to a lesser extent, given that the two airports are farther apart than say YOW and YUL, but carriers could just as easily route most YEG traffic through YYC. In terms of pax stats comparison, YEG was at 6.1M in 2010 compared to YOW's 4.5M. Since then, YEG's numbers have exploded, reaching a peak of 8.3M in 2018 to YOW's 5.1M, before a slight decrease in 2019 for both airports and then decimation by covid. Two similarly sized cities, located close to major hub(s), with vastly different growth. YEG increased pax traffic by 2.3M in eight years, to YOW's measly 600K. There has to be an explanation beyond proximity to larger airports.

Edit: please feel free to move this to the airport thread if necessary

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

That's definitely a factor, but I think my point about Ottawa's culture actually perpetuates the problem more than what would occur naturally. I get the feeling we almost think of ourselves as second class citizens, living in a second class city and that we should have no choice but to connect via hubs like YUL or YYZ because we don't "deserve" our own direct flights. Even when direct options exist from YOW, many people opt for connections at other airports to save a bit of cash, which gives carriers the business case to continue shafting us by cutting our options and routing us through their hubs. On top of that, you have people driving to places like Ogdensburg or Syracuse to catch a regional flight so they can "begin" their journey from a US hub. It's hard to imagine why a resident of a 1.5M-sized metro would/should go to such lengths but here we are.

You're right that YHZ and YWG have no nearby competition, but shouldn't YEG experience the same problem as us with its proximity to YYC? Maybe to a lesser extent, given that the two airports are farther apart than say YOW and YUL, but carriers could just as easily route most YEG traffic through YYC. In terms of pax stats comparison, YEG was at 6.1M in 2010 compared to YOW's 4.5M. Since then, YEG's numbers have exploded, reaching a peak of 8.3M in 2018 to YOW's 5.1M, before a slight decrease in 2019 for both airports and then decimation by covid. Two similarly sized cities, located close to major hub(s), with vastly different growth. YEG increased pax traffic by 2.3M in eight years, to YOW's measly 600K. There has to be an explanation beyond proximity to larger airports.

Edit: please feel free to move this to the airport thread if necessary

It's a chicken and egg thing. Direct flights are more expensive here because of the low "ridership", so people decide to take the flight elsewhere (either by transfer or driving), but they are more expensive because of the low "ridership". Blow my mind how people lose their minds about having to wait 30 seconds behind a bus once in a while (Orleans Boulevard rebuild at Convent Glen station), but are happy to wait in line 30 minutes at the Tim's Drive-Thru, or take an extra 3 hours to get to their destination to save what, $200? Or waist time and gas to drive to the cheapest gas station and save 3 cents a liter.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

That's definitely a factor, but I think my point about Ottawa's culture actually perpetuates the problem more than what would occur naturally. I get the feeling we almost think of ourselves as second class citizens, living in a second class city and that we should have no choice but to connect via hubs like YUL or YYZ because we don't "deserve" our own direct flights. Even when direct options exist from YOW, many people opt for connections at other airports to save a bit of cash, which gives carriers the business case to continue shafting us by cutting our options and routing us through their hubs. On top of that, you have people driving to places like Ogdensburg or Syracuse to catch a regional flight so they can "begin" their journey from a US hub. It's hard to imagine why a resident of a 1.5M-sized metro would/should go to such lengths but here we are.

You're right that YHZ and YWG have no nearby competition, but shouldn't YEG experience the same problem as us with its proximity to YYC? Maybe to a lesser extent, given that the two airports are farther apart than say YOW and YUL, but carriers could just as easily route most YEG traffic through YYC. In terms of pax stats comparison, YEG was at 6.1M in 2010 compared to YOW's 4.5M. Since then, YEG's numbers have exploded, reaching a peak of 8.3M in 2018 to YOW's 5.1M, before a slight decrease in 2019 for both airports and then decimation by covid. Two similarly sized cities, located close to major hub(s), with vastly different growth. YEG increased pax traffic by 2.3M in eight years, to YOW's measly 600K. There has to be an explanation beyond proximity to larger airports.

Edit: please feel free to move this to the airport thread if necessary

We will see how Air France does. If they do well, Sky Team or One World might offer other destinations.

I just think Ottawans are not willing to pay the financial or timing premium for a direct flight to destinations where it might be theoretically possible.