Sen̓áḵw (Squamish Nation) | 11 Towers | 171m | 58fl | 4M sqft | U/C

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

No COVID would probably shave a year off that timeline too.

Covid was the saving grace for this poorly planned project. That and Gillespie being a top Liberal so he received the 1 Billion plus loan from CMHC. It was originally supposed to be one phase and because there was no parking requirements would be complete years ahead of any other project. At the time I was involved in a 1000 unit 7 building development that would have been directly competing for the same labour pool. We had meetings and were putting in a plan B schedule. Because it falls outside of typical construction lending being on First nation lease land it stalled out.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

It's always amazing how quickly we can build without parkades.

And its amazing what a mess the surrounding streets will become due to the lack of parking, given the price/rental costs these units will have. Still, parking might be an opportunity for Concord to wring some money out of the Molson site until they get around to developing it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

It's next to a bridge with an extra-large sidewalk and two major bus routes, and ridesharing is a thing now. Parking is pretty overrated in the core these days.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It's next to a bridge with an extra-large sidewalk and two major bus routes, and ridesharing is a thing now. Parking is pretty overrated in the core these days.

Bingo!

Though it's in demand, I did stop at a meter that was $8/hr the other day.

[officedweller]

Senakw is close enough to downtown that anyone there who works downtown will walk to work. The question is if you work elsewhere.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Bingo!

Though it's in demand, I did stop at a meter that was $8/hr the other day.

To be fair, renting a ~150 sqft piece of land for only $8/hr in a downtown core is a pretty good rate.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It's next to a bridge with an extra-large sidewalk and two major bus routes, and ridesharing is a thing now. Parking is pretty overrated in the core these days.

You might try visiting the parkade of some downtown stratas. That would be news to many who live there, although I'm sure the trend of renting a unit out to several adult students/service workers has probably lessened the demand somewhat.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by mcj

To be fair, renting a ~150 sqft piece of land for only $8/hr in a downtown core is a pretty good rate.

$192/day or $5760/month for an outdoor space with no amenities?

I don't want to get into a parking argument, I'm not a huge fan of street parking, but it's expensive.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You might try visiting the parkade of some downtown stratas. That would be news to many who live there, although I'm sure the trend of renting a unit out to several adult students/service workers has probably lessened the demand somewhat.

I have seen this pattern play out multiple times:

1. New building opens, parkade is full, people are looking to rent additional spots.

2. People sell 2nd cars, even 1st cars.

3. Parkade is less than full, people offering spots to rent, getting no takers.

Habits take time to change.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And its amazing what a mess the surrounding streets will become due to the lack of parking, given the price/rental costs these units will have. Still, parking might be an opportunity for Concord to wring some money out of the Molson site until they get around to developing it.

Sure and anyone that wants to rent a brand new apartment at market rate, and wants to park their car 2 blocks away (if they are luck enough to find a spot or even get a parking permit). They can go right ahead. It's a free market.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You might try visiting the parkade of some downtown stratas. That would be news to many who live there, although I'm sure the trend of renting a unit out to several adult students/service workers has probably lessened the demand somewhat.

Induced demand is a thing: build it and make it free, and obviously people will use it (possibly more than they really need to).

How much underground parking has been built downtown in the last decade? Exactly, much less than the decade before... and somehow the new residents still get around the inner city just fine, so maybe it's just a little bit superfluous there.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You might try visiting the parkade of some downtown stratas. That would be news to many who live there, although I'm sure the trend of renting a unit out to several adult students/service workers has probably lessened the demand somewhat.

Can you not comprehend that renters self-select what buildings they live in? If some people choose not to live in a certain building because it doesn't allow cats or does not have in-unit washers and dryers, is it really that hard to believe car enthusiasts or people who have to drive for work may choose to not live at Senakw?

[mcj]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Can you not comprehend that renters self-select what buildings they live in? If some people choose not to live in a certain building because it doesn't allow cats or does not have in-unit washers and dryers, is it really that hard to believe car enthusiasts or people who have to drive for work may choose to not live at Senakw?

It's wild how of any and all things people seem to have the most trouble grasping this concept. Even if the "necessity" of private vehicle ownership does hold true, that should only drive down rents in this building, which would surely prove the naysayers right that buildings must provide parking space to be economically viable.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Induced demand is a thing: build it and make it free, and obviously people will use it (possibly more than they really need to).

How much underground parking has been built downtown in the last decade? Exactly, much less than the decade before... and somehow the new residents still get around the inner city just fine, so maybe it's just a little bit superfluous there.

Originally Posted by mcj

It's wild how of any and all things people seem to have the most trouble grasping this concept. Even if the "necessity" of private vehicle ownership does hold true, that should only drive down rents in this building, which would surely prove the naysayers right that buildings must provide parking space to be economically viable.

TBF, maybe not that much lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
Japan only has ~20% less cars per capita than Canada.

People use cars for more than just everyday travel.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by fredinno

TBF, maybe not that much lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
Japan only has ~20% less cars per capita than Canada.

People use cars for more than just everyday travel.

B-b-b-but Gibraltar is small and densely populated, surely those people won't have cars.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You might try visiting the parkade of some downtown stratas. That would be news to many who live there, although I'm sure the trend of renting a unit out to several adult students/service workers has probably lessened the demand somewhat.

This isn't a strata development.

There are alternatives to owning a car in Vancouver, with both Modo and Evo car sharing.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

TBF, maybe not that much lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
Japan only has ~20% less cars per capita than Canada.

People use cars for more than just everyday travel.

Originally Posted by whatnext

B-b-b-but Gibraltar is small and densely populated, surely those people won't have cars.

No idea what Japan or Gibraltar have to do with anything, but while we're here, Hong Kong and Singapore each have over 400% less MVs per capita than we do. It's possible.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

B-b-b-but Gibraltar is small and densely populated, surely those people won't have cars.

Manhattan is eight times larger, and densely populated, and the vast majority of households don't have cars.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No idea what Japan or Gibraltar have to do with anything, but while we're here, Hong Kong and Singapore each have over 400% less MVs per capita than we do. It's possible.

Point is that car usage and car ownership are 2 different things (culture also plays a role), and it's not unreasonable to want parking even if you live in urban areas.

Even Manhattan is 22%.
10% is very low, and while that might be ok for a one-off, it shouldn't become standard.
We should still assume the vast majority of people will want parking unless there's strong evidence that people aren't using it, regardless of whatever induced demand.
We didn't narrow the False Creek bridges until it became clear the extra capacity wasn't really needed.

People being worried about the lack of parking spaces and wanting parking spaces have a point.


Does Vancouver allow people to sell or rent their condo parking spaces?
That might help increase overall parking stall supply if it's possible.

[Migrant_Coconut]

See above: it's more likely that car-obligate tenants will simply avoid Senakw altogether than move in and flood Kits Point with parked vehicles. I realize that one can't go without four wheels in the suburbs, but the inner city (including Vanier) is more like Manhattan and its 78% that don't drive, and so 886 stalls for 9,000 people (~10%) right next to a major busway and pedway seems more than fine.

Also, ridesharing and home delivery are things now; the street parking spaces that do exist should be more than adequate for Evo lots and dropoff spaces for Uber, Amazon and DoorDash, lowering car dependency even further.