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View Poll Results: Which 'historic' districts should be opened for dense (25+ Stories) development?
West End 'Villages' (Denman, Davie, Robson) 21 55.26%
Gastown 11 28.95%
Chinatown 16 42.11%
Yaletown Historic District 10 26.32%
DTES (Strathcona) 20 52.63%
South False Creek 24 63.16%
Granville Entertainment District 22 57.89%
Shaughnessy 17 44.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 3:25 AM
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We're trying to have an honest conversation here Whatnext and I'm trying my best to include everyone for productive discourse. These are legitimate issues. High commercial rents with high triple net leases.

Just as residential rents and home prices are high and affect productivity, community vitality.
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  #102  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
You see this commonly with commercial vacancies in new buildings, for instance. Fraser and Broadway rings a bell.
The strata CRUs in Midtown Modern FINALLY sold (or they gave up and leased them?), Dunbar Cycles and a dental office both opened in the past few weeks.
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  #103  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 4:12 AM
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Well if they offered it rent free, but with the tenant paying the taxes, they'd be saving money. Or they could just stop putting the rent up; an empty store will cost them money. Kent's Kitchen closed this week, after 40+ years, due to a 30% rent increase.
Thirty percent? Now that's just the landlord being greedy.
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  #104  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Thirty percent? Now that's just the landlord being greedy.
Kent's has been there for 40 years, so who knows what the 30% was based on.

I agree it seems ridiculous to leave units empty for months or years and pay expenses, but I have to assume these are large financially savvy businesses that know what they are doing.

Central by Onni completed in 2014 and still has a massive empty CRU space. I believe it can be fully leased or subdivided.
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  #105  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 5:00 PM
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The strata CRUs in Midtown Modern FINALLY sold (or they gave up and leased them?), Dunbar Cycles and a dental office both opened in the past few weeks.
WOW. It's only been... 4 years?
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  #106  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 5:05 PM
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Kent's has been there for 40 years, so who knows what the 30% was based on.

I agree it seems ridiculous to leave units empty for months or years and pay expenses, but I have to assume these are large financially savvy businesses that know what they are doing.

Central by Onni completed in 2014 and still has a massive empty CRU space. I believe it can be fully leased or subdivided.
Having failed to find a new tenant to replace the initial lease to a restaurant that never opened, I think they got a change of use to office, and the CBSA have taken the space. CBSA seem to have leased the space the whole time as Onni weren't the letting agent, as they usually are for their projects.
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  #107  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 5:35 PM
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WOW. It's only been... 4 years?
Yup, oh and the corner unit at Midtown finally leased after 7 years, a Patisserie opened late last year. The westernmost CRU there was occupied shortly by Reliance for a sales centre but is back up for lease.
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  #108  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Chinatown, yes; Gastown, not really. Last time I was there, I could count the number of homeless on Water or Cordova with one hand.

Literally a month before that article, Vancouver Is Awesome was citing TripAdvisor when they called the city its "top travel destination in Canada" and walking food tours of Gastown a "not-to-miss (thing) to do."
So, when was the last time you were in Gastown?

Also, for that "Vancouver is Awesome" article, look at this:

Quote:
Among the not-to-miss things to do in Vancouver, according to Tripadvisor, are seaplane tours, a walking food tour of Gastown, and (awkwardly) a trip to Victoria and Butchart Gardens.

On the Vancouver page, they also suggest such iconic experiences as visits to Granville Island, the Vancouver Aquarium, and the Museum of Anthropology.
Other than the food tour of Gastown, literally nothing is really about modern Vancouver under the current City's jurisdiction:

1. Victoria: BC's beautiful capital city, definitely not Vancouver.
2. Butchard Gardens: beautiful private garden located in North Saanich, Greater Victoria.
3. Granville Island: a beautiful tourist destination managed by the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC), a federal corporation from Ottawa.
4. Vancouveruver Aquarium: technically a Vancouver entity set in a beautiful city parkland, but only possible because of the crown contribution of a vital piece of park land by the then Governor General of Canada, Lord Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby, an Englishman. If not for him and other earlier planners, I do not think the Aquarium, which is just a shadow of a larger Stanley Park zoo, will ever exist in this city.
5. Museum of Anthropology: Under the jurisdiction of UBC, a provincial entity, thus not Vancouver either.


The "food tour" of Gastown, a historic "colonial and Victorian style" neighbourhood built by the colonists, was only mentioned because seriously, what else is there really good in modern Vancouver that can achieve international accolades?
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  #109  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 7:44 PM
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Just over a month ago; no homeless on Water Street then. Though that may have changed since late March, now that they can't camp on Hastings...

The Aquarium was built in the Fifties; the prison zoo would likely have been shut down no matter what. Gastown is visited in spite of the colonists, not because of them; the steam clock was built in '77, most of the venues moved in long after that, and Jack Deighton's statue is gone. And most of any city's tourist destinations are either private sector, provincial or federal, so whatever moronic "good ol' colonial days" argument is trying to be made here is effectively null and void.
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  #110  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 7:45 PM
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4. Vancouveruver Aquarium: technically a Vancouver entity set in a beautiful city parkland, but only possible because of the crown contribution of a vital piece of park land by the then Governor General of Canada, Lord Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby, an Englishman. If not for him and other earlier planners, I do not think the Aquarium, which is just a shadow of a larger Stanley Park zoo, will ever exist in this city.
Wow, I'm surprised you didn't know that The Lord Stanley of Preston didn't like fish. And he was a Conservative politician, not a planner.

Actually, he had nothing to do with creating the park. It was leased to the City by the UK Government in June 1886, and was known then as 'the miltary reserve'. He didn't become Governor General of Canada until 1888.
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  #111  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 7:51 PM
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Next thing you know, some other poster will tell us that Victoria wasn't founded by the Queen... /s

Back to the original point: either Vancouver Is Awesome is bipolar, or it basically just parrots what everybody else says and shouldn't be used as a reliable source of journalism. Now, does anybody have any news that's actually relevant to the thread?
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  #112  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Given that I was born in Vancouver and have been going there since my parents took us all to Old Spaghetti Factory for special occasions , yeah I know it pretty well. Millennial hipster delusions to the contrary, the area won't survive on people getting drunk alone. Kind of the way Granville island merchants recoil in horror whenever some fixie-rider proposes cutting parking at Granville Island.
I am a few days late replying here, but Granville Island is not a good comparison. Yes, both GI and Gastown are tourist magnets but one is located next to the Cruise Ship terminal and the busiest transit hub in the region and the other is not. Also, one of them has a significant residential population and number of hotels and the other does not. It's also convenient that you are invoking GI merchants' attitudes towards parking while ignoring that the Gastown BIV is supportive of pedestrianizing its neighbourhood.
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  #113  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Wow, I'm surprised you didn't know that The Lord Stanley of Preston didn't like fish. And he was a Conservative politician, not a planner.

Actually, he had nothing to do with creating the park. It was leased to the City by the UK Government in June 1886, and was known then as 'the miltary reserve'. He didn't become Governor General of Canada until 1888.
Putting words into my mouth as usual I see?

1. Never said Lord Stanley "created" the park.
2. Never said he was a "planner".
3. Never said he liked fish.
4. Never said he was a Liberal politician.

However, he did do this:

Quote:
Lord Stanley threw his arms to the heavens, as though embracing within them the whole of 1000 acres of primeval forest, and dedicated it "to the use and enjoyment of peoples of all colours, creeds, and customs, for all time. I name thee Stanley Park."
He helped make it become a permanent park.




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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Just over a month ago; no homeless on Water Street then. Though that may have changed since late March, now that they can't camp on Hastings...

The Aquarium was built in the Fifties; the prison zoo would likely have been shut down no matter what. Gastown is visited in spite of the colonists, not because of them; the steam clock was built in '77, most of the venues moved in long after that, and Jack Deighton's statue is gone. And most of any city's tourist destinations are either private sector, provincial or federal, so whatever moronic "good ol' colonial days" argument is trying to be made here is effectively null and void.
You said a lot, but haven't answered this: "What else is really good for tourism in Vancouver?"


And indeed a "moronic good ol' colonial days argument"......
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Next thing you know, some other poster will tell us that Victoria wasn't founded by the Queen... /s
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  #114  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 8:20 PM
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Putting words into my mouth as usual I see?

1. Never said Lord Stanley "created" the park.
"only possible because of the crown contribution of a vital piece of park land by the then Governor General of Canada, Lord Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby"

He didn't contribute anything - he was the political figurehead who 'opened' it two years after it had been negotiated by the governmnet and the City. He wasn't Governor General until 2 years after the lease had been granted.
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
2. Never said he was a "planner".
"If not for him and other earlier planners"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
3. Never said he liked fish.
whoosh
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
4. Never said he was a Liberal politician.
Never said you said he was.

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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
However, he did do this:

"Lord Stanley threw his arms to the heavens, as though embracing within them the whole of 1000 acres of primeval forest, and dedicated it "to the use and enjoyment of peoples of all colours, creeds, and customs, for all time. I name thee Stanley Park."

He helped make it become a permanent park.
No he didn't - it was already a park. He didn't have any involvement in negotiating the lease (which was not 'for all time', it was initially for 99 years).

As this isn't one of the heritage neighbourhoods that fredinno wants to run a bulldozer through (selectively), it really isn't relevant to this thread.
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  #115  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 11:09 PM
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You said a lot, but haven't answered this: "What else is really good for tourism in Vancouver?"
In the CoV? Science World, the Art Gallery, events at the stadiums or the convention centre, Bloedel Conservatory (and QE Park in general), Vanier Park and its museums, the seawall, English Bay Beach, Davie, Denman, car-free street festivals, Playland, and soon, the PNE amphitheatre and NEFC. All of them became a thing long after Lord Stanley's death.

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And indeed a "moronic good ol' colonial days argument"......
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Next thing you know, some other poster will tell us that Victoria wasn't founded by the Queen... /s
It was not. "Fort Albert" was renamed to "Fort Victoria" in honour of the Queen, who never (nor her family) even set foot in BC in their lives.
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  #116  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 11:20 PM
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It was not. "Fort Albert" was renamed to "Fort Victoria" in honour of the Queen, who never (nor her family) even set foot in BC in their lives.
I think you'll find Queen Victoria threw her arms to the heavens, as though embracing within them the surrounding 1000 acres of primeval forest, and dedicated it "it's mine, I tell you, all mine. I name thee Fort Victoria. Forget Albert, he does what I tell him to."
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  #117  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
In the CoV? Science World, the Art Gallery, events at the stadiums or the convention centre, Bloedel Conservatory (and QE Park in general), Vanier Park and its museums, the seawall, English Bay Beach, Davie, Denman, car-free street festivals, Playland, and soon, the PNE amphitheatre and NEFC. All of them became a thing long after Lord Stanley's death.



It was not. "Fort Albert" was renamed to "Fort Victoria" in honour of the Queen, who never (nor her family) even set foot in BC in their lives.
Sigh. If these are really that great, they would've been mentioned in Tripadvisor's list.
BTW, I also never said Queen Victoria named the city after herself.

Back to Gastown:
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Police called over multiple sex assaults in Vancouver's downtown core
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-sex-assaults-investigations-police
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  #118  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 8:32 PM
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A military base belongs to the Crown. The Feds could have seized it for their own. Under the then Governor General, the military reserve was given to the City of Vancouver, making public facilities such as the zoo and aquarium porssible.

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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
"only possible because of the crown contribution of a vital piece of park land by the then Governor General of Canada, Lord Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby"

He didn't contribute anything - he was the political figurehead who 'opened' it two years after it had been negotiated by the governmnet and the City. He wasn't Governor General until 2 years after the lease had been granted.
He did, like you said, the City only designated it a military reserve. The military could raze all the trees and build training fields, barracks, and other facilities. By making it into a public park, Lord Stanley and other planners at the time made it permanent. BTW, the Aquarium could only exist because the place became public.

"If not for him and other earlier planners"

whoosh

Never said you said he was.



No he didn't - it was already a park. He didn't have any involvement in negotiating the lease (which was not 'for all time', it was initially for 99 years).
No, it was a military reserve, not a park.
As this isn't one of the heritage neighbourhoods that fredinno wants to run a bulldozer through (selectively), it really isn't relevant to this thread.
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  #119  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Sigh. If these are really that great, they would've been mentioned in Tripadvisor's list.
BTW, I also never said Queen Victoria named the city after herself.

Back to Gastown:
TripAdvisor does mention them. You're just hating for the sake of hating.

Of course not, you "only" thought Lord Stanley founded Stanley Park just because it was named after him, and then doubled down on it, which is equally stupid - hence the analogy. All the guy did was show up for the ribbon-cutting; the military reserve went from the feds straight to the city, with no "planning" from the Governor General whatsoever.

No, this is the "should we redevelop the heritage areas" thread. We already have a "complain about every random isolated incident in the city" thread.
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  #120  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 9:47 PM
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A military base belongs to the Crown. The Feds could have seized it for their own. Under the then Governor General, the military reserve was given to the City of Vancouver, making public facilities such as the zoo and aquarium porssible.
Meanwhile, here's what happened in the real world. The land was surveyed in 1859 by the British Navy, before the mill was built on the south shore of Burrard Inlet, and before Gassy Jack Deighton rowed round from New Westminster and squatted on the shore to establish his first bar.

The military reserve was declared because of the tall, straight trees that made excellent masts, the sort that the Navy needed for their sailing ships. There were first nations settlements on what became called The Coal Harbour peninsula.

Once the railway was going to arrive in the newly named City of Vancouver in 1886, the newly elected Council asked the Dominion Government if they could have the land as a park. The request was that 'the whole of that part of Coal Harbour peninsula known as the Government Reserve be conveyed to the City of Vancouver for a Public Park". By the time that approval was received from the Dominion Government in June 1887 the city had already surveyed a road around the park.

The Government of the Dominion of Canada previously claimed Crown Lands, and in turn have handed responsibility of many of the lands to provincial governments, and those are now known as provincial Crown land. However, the national government - the Feds as you referenced them - still held the military reserve when they allocated almost all of the land to the British Columbia Government when the colony of British Columbia became part of the Dominion of Canada in 1871, (and the provincial government still 'own' 94% of it). So early settlers after 1871 acquired their land from the provincial government, but in the case of Stanley Park and Granville Island (and the Sinclair Centre) the land was (and is) still held by the Federal Government, who leased, rather than gave what was later named as Stanley Park to the City Council.

As we know, unlike in most of the rest of Canada, in most of British Columbia Aboriginal title has never been transferred to the Crown, hence recent negotiations and in some cases compensation or development partnerships with first nations on both Federal and Provincial lands that are no longer required for Federal use.

Lord Stanley had no role in any of this. He didn't negotiate it, he wasn't in Canada, he was the minister in the British Government in charge of managing The British Empire in 1886, but there was a different Governor General. It was leaked to the press that Lord Stanley had been offered the job of Governor General at the end of 1887, and he took on the role in 1888. He didn't actually live in Canada - but he travelled widely, including to the new City of Vancouver. His predecessor, another British politician, Lord Landsdowne (a Liberal) had suggested that the park might be named for his successor, Lord Stanley, and the day after it was opened the Victoria newspaper referred to it as "Stanley" Park. Apparently, apart from the speeches, it wasn't a huge deal. The Daily Times reported that "Beyond a sparse display of bunting and the closing of business houses there was little or no attempt at decorations".
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