Hamilton International Airport

[king10]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

YHM's has the largest commercial customs operation in Canada. It operates 24/7 so they always have personnel available. Pre COVID, they had flights that would come in and have all the passengers get off and get processed. Then they would be rescreened and back on the plane to continue on to the destination. This was for airports that either had no customs or they closed early. Suck for the passenger but was good for the airport.

Thats crazy. Who covers the cost of that extra expense? The airline?

[HamAviMech]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

Most likely at the next cities Airport Sub-Committee meeting on Thursday, April 27, 2023 @ 9:30 AM. This is the first one of the year.

Here's the link the the live stream from that meeting. Some good questions asked by council. You can tell what councilors are interested in the potential that the airport can provide. Hopefully they read this forum and add some of the suggestions from here to the lease agreement.

https://www.youtube.com/live/_YTf_bBprRg?feature=share

[NortheastWind]

Originally Posted by king10

Thats crazy. Who covers the cost of that extra expense? The airline?

There are customs officers at YYZ all night as well, but the sheer size of the airport has them focusing only on cargo during the overnight. The customs office in Hamilton is in the small terminal building right at the international arrivals hall, so it's not a lot to for them to do passenger checks if they need to. It would be the same cost as day time checks.

[Fruitloops]

I read where there is another, hope last, study about a Pickering airport. Pickering council doesnt support an airport. Free up the land for other uses.

Free up the money, billions, sending some YHM s way and its a win win. Can we trust govt to do the right thing?

[King&James]

Open up all those Pickering lands for more single family homes! YHM can take all the business YYZ can't handle

[ScreamingViking]

It may make sense to have another freight-focused airport in the region. That could take a significant load off of Pearson (though I understand that a good portion of the freight cargo it handles is transported via the belly holds of passenger aircraft... someone with knowledge about that please correct me!)

But I always feel it makes more sense to optimize existing assets first. So, maximize Pearson's capacity, and invest in Hamilton and Waterloo and others. Then consider another airport.

Build a new airport in Pickering, and the connecting infrastructure has to be built too. It's a huge decision to make. No wonder Pickering's council doesn't agree with the idea... the accompanying jobs are one thing, but the costs to the municipality and to Durham region will be large.

[Djeffery]

I get the original thinking, that Pickering is on the east side of the GTA, but I think the time has long passed to build it. It would be like Mirabel where the airlines preferred Dorval. Airlines in Toronto would always prefer Pearson. Cargo wouldn't really go over well in Pickering, as all the major players are already well ensconced either in Hamilton or Toronto and their major sort hubs are also to the west side of the GTA.

[Innsertnamehere]

I mean any secondary passenger airport is always going to be a subsidiary for Pearson - think like the London area airports with Heathrow being the big one and Stanstead / Gatwick serving secondary, lower cost markets like charter airlines and discount-flights.

Hamilton is basically following that model, being a hub for discount airlines. If Pickering ever happened, it would likely be similar.

[shoelessjoe]

I think it's important to remember that when Pickering was initially proposed/planned, the vision for future growth saw considerably more urban expansion to the East of Toronto -- we know in reality that the actual growth patterns have been more to the North and West of Toronto -- with relatively little suburban and exurban growth beyond Oshawa. Drawing a circle, if you will, YHM is likely in a better geographic location than Pickering -- from a catchment perspective (not that Pickering doesn't have advantages -- such a being closer to Downtown Toronto than YHM). It's also true that the current need for massive amounts of new housing are likely a further disincentive for using that land for an airport. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out -- ideally they will finally end the plan for Pickering -- and perhaps -- some funding will flow in lieu of that to the likes of YHM and YKF.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by shoelessjoe

I think it's important to remember that when Pickering was initially proposed/planned, the vision for future growth saw considerably more urban expansion to the East of Toronto -- we know in reality that the actual growth patterns have been more to the North and West of Toronto -- with relatively little suburban and exurban growth beyond Oshawa. Drawing a circle, if you will, YHM is likely in a better geographic location than Pickering -- from a catchment perspective (not that Pickering doesn't have advantages -- such a being closer to Downtown Toronto than YHM). It's also true that the current need for massive amounts of new housing are likely a further disincentive for using that land for an airport. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out -- ideally they will finally end the plan for Pickering -- and perhaps -- some funding will flow in lieu of that to the likes of YHM and YKF.

Pickering airport is a really good location, its near the 401 and the 412, and on the 407. Its really close to Richmond Hill, Markham, Scarbrough, and fairly close to the 404/401 interchange which is a massive business hub. Also near Oshawa, which is seeing large population growth (but so is all of the GTA). GTAA will also run the Pickering airport.
It will likely be better served than Hamilton day 1, In Hamilton its hard to pull people from the Western part of the GTA to go to Hamilton and not Pearson. There is a reason there isn't a Montreal or Ottawa flight from Hamilton, those should be easy to do with the population.

It will likely be built, just decades from now.

[Innsertnamehere]

yup - the problem for Hamilton is that Pearson is already on the west end of the city.

YHM has a large coverage area in terms of easy accessibility, but for most of the GTA, Pearson is closer. Basically anywhere east of Burlington has easier access to Pearson than YHM, plus Pearson is a far busier airport with far better connections.

YHM's catchment is really just Hamilton, Niagara, and Brantford. Kitchener has similar service levels at YKF, and London is generally too far.

Maybe a little over a million people total, and a lot of those will be tempted to go to Pearson anyway since it offers such a broad range of flight options.

[Fruitloops]

chicken and egg thing.

I know in the past Ott and Mtl were not well received. However if the airlines were offering better rates that reflects the costing at YHM then perhaps more would use the service. No way a flight out if YHM should cost anyway near the same going to Ott or Mtl vs YYZ, or anywhere for that matter.

Ive been on many flights to Las where western New Yorks were on board. No direct flights from Buf to Las.

Opportunity is there. Seize it.

[shoelessjoe]

I'm not saying Pickering isn't well located -- it is, but any number of locations around the GTHA are "good" locations. The question remains what is the compelling reason to build it? What incentive would any airline have to locate service there when they are already serving YYZ? What was the last major airport built in N. America? Denver? Infrastructure already exists for so-called reliever airports in S. Ontario. Durham and York Regions are absolutely growing -- as are Peel, Halton, Wellington, Waterloo, Hamilton, Niagara, etc -- growth is everywhere. Also consider the ideological bend of the current federal government as it relates to carbon, etc when considering whether this airport will ever be developed.

As for service to YOW and YUL -- it has operated on/off over the years. It's a bit of a misnomer to say it's been poorly received. Westjet ran them at 4x/5x daily on a 737 -- the frequency helped because short haul ops like that are primarily driven by business travel. AC has come and gone a couple of times with service to YUL -- it tends to get cut due to opportunity cost -- it's profitable but the aircraft will make MORE money elsewhere -- in this era of low staffing, particularly at regional airlines, I wouldn't expect a return in the short term...but AC is still committed to building up YUL as a connecting hub -- frankly a great way to get to Europe without going to YYZ.

[King&James]

I am a bit surprised that Swoop does not have a run to Montreal. I am sure there would be enough interest to sustain (although I wonder if that volume would be more interested in accumulating flyer points on AC), than saving their organizations some bucks on corporate travel).

[shoelessjoe]

It would be great to have YUL back. How it's served really is dependent on what type of traffic the airline would be trying to attract. If the hope is to get business/official traffic general orthodoxy is that it requires frequency (3x daily or more). AC would achieve this operating a regional aircraft (and AC would have the benefit of onward connections at YUL, including Europe). Swoop (at 1x a day for example) would likely struggle to attract business travel due to the lack of frequency -- doesn't mean it couldn't be successful however. Another possible future connection would be YOW -- considering Porter is currently building up a hub operation there.

The population growth in the entire region has been quite spectacular -- I think it's important not to lose sight of that when talking about services and what has worked/not worked in the past. I think it's fair to say that what was once a vastly underutilized facility has now become one many flyers have become accustomed to having as an option.

Originally Posted by King&James

I am a bit surprised that Swoop does not have a run to Montreal. I am sure there would be enough interest to sustain (although I wonder if that volume would be more interested in accumulating flyer points on AC), than saving their organizations some bucks on corporate travel).

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by King&James

I am a bit surprised that Swoop does not have a run to Montreal. I am sure there would be enough interest to sustain (although I wonder if that volume would be more interested in accumulating flyer points on AC), than saving their organizations some bucks on corporate travel).

I might have to disagree here.

Flair attempted to fly to YUL from Waterloo and Windsor with hopes of attracting leisure travellers. While they were able to find some demand, it didn’t make much money. With this sort of flight, less people are to purchase add one such as checked baggage, carry ons, and seat selection due to the short duration of the flight and usually the short visit for the traveller. Axillary fees are the money makers for ULCC’s.

This sort of route does need to be operated by a carrier such as Air Canada or Porter where they have a proper structure to gain some sort of revenue. Air Canada’s YUL flights were pretty successful but it’s a shame that they cut it prior to 2020.


I’m still at a loss on how we still don’t have a direct YHM-YVR flight; lynx’s one-stop flight doesn’t count. Westjet use to serve YHM-YVR during the summer but axed it when swoop came. If YKF can warrant daily+ service on this route, I don’t see why no airline is jumping to the YHM market. We’re the only southern Ontario airport without this direct route.

[shoelessjoe]

YVR would definitely be nice...the lack of that service is really a function of Swoop's large operation at YHM as Swoop serves YXX and not YVR. Westjet's stated strategy for Swoop has been to keep it out of its mainline hubs -- initially YYC and YVR -- and now that Westjet has deployed a strategy of building Edmonton back up, Swoop has essentially been reduced to almost no presence there. Swoop is present at YYZ owing in part to Westjet mainline reductions there -- for us to see YVR it's going to have to be something/someone other than Swoop -- it's unlikely Westjet mainline would want to compete with itself -- that leaves AC, Lynx or Flair as the likely contenders (should Flair ever chose to make an attempt to return).

[JakeLRS]

Currently flying out of YHM once again, first of many this year. Noticed some new changes since the last time I flew last August.

The Security area is now larger with 4 different screening lanes. They turned the old storage area and gallery area into the extra lane and they moved the security line out to the pre-security area.

There are now two new family-friendly washrooms in the departures lounge. Located in the area where there use to be a window that separated the lounge and the check-in area.

The departure lounge Tim Hortons line no longer starts right where security ends and now goes along the wall.

Detour has more snack offerings.

I’ve noticed the departure lounge felt a little bit cramped with two departures happening, the narrow lane of seats wasn’t very comfortable; I can imagine it’s worse during morning rushes with 3 or more departures.

The detour bar is a hot commodity but the bar area for people to enjoy their drink is relatively tight with lots of people wanting to congregate in that area. Also the two pre existing washrooms aren’t enough; only two toilets for up to 4 flights at once? Criminal.

If the airport continues to gain more flights, the departure lounge needs to be expanded.

[Innsertnamehere]

The whole airport needs to be rebuilt. Like all infrastructure in Hamilton, it’s substandard for a developed country.

[LikeHamilton]

As to washrooms, they have, at the same time they put in the family washrooms, expanded the women’s washroom to 10 stalls. They have added two water bottle filling stations outside of the women’s washroom also. Next the men’s room is getting an expansion that is supposed to start soon. They have known this was problem for a while.