Canadian Airport Thread

[Calfan12]

It currently looks like the WestJet Inaugural Calgary YYC - Tokyo NRT, Japan & 1st flight to Asia from,will depart from YYC Airport Gate D80.

Inbound WS Boeing 787 for it, will be doing the YYC - Cancun CUN- YYC flight route
Saturday April 29, which is the last YYC departure to CUN on the 787 for this (Winter season 2022). And then it's doing YYC - NRT on Sunday April 30 2023.

Also Sunday April 30 YYC - Dublin DUB & London Gatwick LGW flight routes resume for Spring/Summer 2023 season.

[zahav]

Reposting from my post in the YVR thread:

I had a few mins and did an calculation on combined AC+UA daily seat capacity to United's hubs this summer from the 3 AC hubs (sorry YYC, I don't count you as an AC hub whatsoever). Some numbers surprised me...

United Airlines operates more seats from YVR than from YYZ (and by default, more than YUL). UA seats from:
YVR - 2,418
YYZ - 2,240
YUL - 520

Quite the gap with YUL. They have very decent service transborder overall, but UA only flies Express aircraft. and you really see the difference that makes compared to somewhere like YVR that sees majority mainline (and majority the 737-Max 9, which is United's largest narrobody outside the 757).

Then looking at AC seats from the 3 airports:
YYZ - 3,792
YVR - 2,359
YUL - 1,899

So obviously weighted to YYZ (duh!), but decent numbers to YVR and YUL. So in total, this is the combined AC+UA daily seat count:
YYZ - 12,064
YVR - 9,554
YUL - 4,838

YVR had 79% of YYZ's traffic, but YUL only had 51% of YVR's, so the gap between YYZ and YVR is much narrower than with 3rd place YUL. Honestly I was surprised by YYZ, I really thought their combined AC+UA total would have been significantly higher to these airports. I have followed flight schedules for well over a decade but have never done this comparison before unfortunately, which is too bad because I wish I could compare to 2019 to see if traffic is back to normal and these numbers are historically normal, or if there's been reductions (and if so, which airport has seen the most).

I should add, UA has 7 hubs in the US. YVR is the top destination from SFO, LAX, DEN, and IAH. YYZ is the top destination from EWR, ORD, and IAD. I believe pre-COVID that YYZ was bigger for all of these markets, at least based on flights.

Disclaimer for any easily offended people: this is not a commentary on total airport traffic or a — match, I realize both AC operate lots of routes outside these hubs, so this isn't including those. But UA is focused on their hubs exclusively, and AC does focus operations there too more than other airports, so the combined joint venture is an interesting study.

[zahav]

Also, WS axing YYZ-LAX is pretty jarring, that is a major US route, it's not like one of the boutiquey Caribbean destinations like Roatan or Merida. LAX is hugely important as a destination, for both tourism and business. And it is very popular in winter, it's not totally a summer seasonal destination (like Palm Springs or many of the Florida spots), so who knows if they will bring it back in the summer? It's a message that their dismantling of the YYZ hub is still in action... Yesterday was the last day of YYZ-YQM and YYZ-YQT. Come winter, there's only going to be one single daily flight each to YOW, YUL, YYT, and YHZ for eastern, plus one daily to New York. Then a — ton of Florida service, which is the only thing really propping up transborder (there is LAS too, but its not even daily). And of course all of the sun destinations. But those are mostly under 3x per week, some are only once weekly, so not a lot of traffic there. Even Puerto Vallarta, a staple for Canadians and for airlines going south, is only served 3x weekly! Just very crazy to me how they did this while. Usually airlines go bankrupt and that's why they stop flying to destinations, that's what we're used to seeing. But not such a massive shift in operations, it was very bold of WS as it really publicly handed the spare keys to Air Canada, lol. They were never equals at YYZ, but WS was formidable and certainly a HUB for them. Air Canada just wiped out their biggest competitor at their home base. I don't think AC will try anything at its other bases to challenge WS either, I think they are OK with the status quo elsewhere, since now they have the prize of YYZ more than ever

[Denscity]

Ya so awesome YVR is very strong with both Air Canada and Westjet!

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by zahav

Also, WS axing YYZ-LAX is pretty jarring, that is a major US route, it's not like one of the boutiquey Caribbean destinations like Roatan or Merida. LAX is hugely important as a destination, for both tourism and business. And it is very popular in winter, it's not totally a summer seasonal destination (like Palm Springs or many of the Florida spots), so who knows if they will bring it back in the summer? It's a message that their dismantling of the YYZ hub is still in action... Yesterday was the last day of YYZ-YQM and YYZ-YQT. Come winter, there's only going to be one single daily flight each to YOW, YUL, YYT, and YHZ for eastern, plus one daily to New York. Then a — ton of Florida service, which is the only thing really propping up transborder (there is LAS too, but its not even daily). And of course all of the sun destinations. But those are mostly under 3x per week, some are only once weekly, so not a lot of traffic there. Even Puerto Vallarta, a staple for Canadians and for airlines going south, is only served 3x weekly! Just very crazy to me how they did this while. Usually airlines go bankrupt and that's why they stop flying to destinations, that's what we're used to seeing. But not such a massive shift in operations, it was very bold of WS as it really publicly handed the spare keys to Air Canada, lol. They were never equals at YYZ, but WS was formidable and certainly a HUB for them. Air Canada just wiped out their biggest competitor at their home base. I don't think AC will try anything at its other bases to challenge WS either, I think they are OK with the status quo elsewhere, since now they have the prize of YYZ more than ever

Whom WS have really handed the keys to in Eastern and Central Canada is Porter. It won’t be long before PD launch YYZ-LAX. I can see YOW-LAX too once PD reach a critical mass at YOW for connecting traffic. Rumour has it Porter are going to acquire 6 of the parked WS Dash 8s. They would be perfect for new regional feed at YOW from places like YQY, YSJ, YQB, YSB, YAM, YHM, YXU, YQG and maybe a couple more US cities like PHL & IAD (or even DCA if PD can somehow acquire slots).

As for WS going south, we really need to wait until the winter 23-24 schedule to gauge that in the east. This weekend marks the end of peak season down south.

With the Sunwing acquisition approved, other than abiding by the government’s terms and conditions, who knows what they’ll do. WG-WS interlining/codesharing?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

I have followed flight schedules for well over a decade but have never done this comparison before unfortunately, which is too bad because I wish I could compare to 2019 to see if traffic is back to normal and these numbers are historically normal, or if there's been reductions (and if so, which airport has seen the most).

UA, especially Express, has been downsizing Canada operations for years, and even before COVID. A lot of secondary Canadian destinations that used to see UA service, were downsized. This being said, I think the numbers you have are the historical normal.

UA has always been the weakest of the big 3 at YUL. DL and AA have far more seats to YUL than UA, and both of them send mainline equipment as well. UA doesn't. I don't mind that at all, really. (keep reading, you'll see why )

Originally Posted by zahav

I realize both AC operate lots of routes outside these hubs, so this isn't including those.

Indeed. And while your numbers are interesting, they aren't therefore representative of the overall transborder market out of each hub. YYZ/YUL to LGA/Florida, as an example, are massive markets in their own right and represent a huge chunk of transborder flying from the eastern seaboard. And UA doesn't have a single hub in LGA or Florida. AA/DL do.

Originally Posted by zahav

Disclaimer for any easily offended people: this is not a commentary on total airport traffic or a pissing match, I realize both AC operate lots of routes outside these hubs, so this isn't including those. But UA is focused on their hubs exclusively, and AC does focus operations there too more than other airports, so the combined joint venture is an interesting study.

Interesting choice of word. Piss. Because that's what I think of when thinking of UA.
The less UA flights an airport has, the better. AC is light years ahead of UA in terms quality and service.

As far as American carriers go, DL is head and shoulders above the rest. AA is second. UA is piss poor - pun intended- , and comes in last, as far as I'm concerned.

So I don't see it as a good thing that YVR has more UA metal to the 7 hubs than AC metal.

Originally Posted by zahav

Also, WS axing YYZ-LAX is pretty jarring

Not really. They can't compete against an airline that sends B787s/A330s on the same route.

Same thing happened or is happening on YYZ/YUL-Florida.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by zahav

Also, WS axing YYZ-LAX is pretty jarring, that is a major US route, it's not like one of the boutiquey Caribbean destinations like Roatan or Merida. LAX is hugely important as a destination, for both tourism and business.

The block time for flights is an issue with LAX. You burn a lot of time/fuel for California from Toronto (~5.5hrs). Unless you're making it up on margin for the direct flight (hard to do with the AC owning the route on frequency/size) it's a lot of resources that could be used for more local stuff.

Connect via Calgary for those who want to do the cheap California flight, just like US airlines connect to LAX via their hubs from YYZ.

[Dirt_Devil]

YQB 2022 total pax count: 1 174 321.

https://www.aeroportdequebec.com/sites/default/files/2023-04/YQB_2022_Annual_Report_0.pdf

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Dirt_Devil

YQB 2022 total pax count: 1 174 321.

https://www.aeroportdequebec.com/sites/default/files/2023-04/YQB_2022_Annual_Report_0.pdf

Y était temps, esti !

A 232.5% increase over 2021. That's the highest of any Canadian airport that posted 2022 stats so far. They basically jumped 4 spots and regained 11th busiest spot in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Canada#2022

[Dirt_Devil]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Y était temps, esti !

Criss oui! Pour vrai le site internet de YQB et la section statistiques est une vraie farce depuis 2 ans.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

So I don't see it as a good thing that YVR has more UA metal to the 7 hubs than AC metal.

Maybe 5-10 years ago, AC have very limited service to UA hubs from YVR.

LAX was mostly AC
EWR was entirely AC
SFO was split AC/UA
IAH, DEN, ORD, IAD was all entirely UA

AC flight to most of UA hubs was all relatively recent additions. If you look at the blackout routes for the old JV proposal, you'll see only YVR-SFO was listed. That's simply because there was no competition for the other routes as AC don't fly there.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Y était temps, esti !

A 232.5% increase over 2021. That's the highest of any Canadian airport that posted 2022 stats so far. They basically jumped 4 spots and regained 11th busiest spot in the country.

So YHZ had it wrong for being the second highest % increase over 2021? Or they don't consider YQB as "Tier 1" airport

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Dirt_Devil

Criss oui! Pour vrai le site internet de YQB et la section statistiques est une vraie farce depuis 2 ans.

C'était toujours une farce avec seulement des changements mensuel en % au lieu des données actuelles. Mais quand même c'est mieux que YHZ.

[Calfan12]

WestJet starts Boeing 737 service on Calgary YYC- Seattle SEA - YYC flight route this Sunday April 30 2023,for the Spring/Summer season.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

Maybe 5-10 years ago, AC have very limited service to UA hubs from YVR.

LAX was mostly AC
EWR was entirely AC
SFO was split AC/UA
IAH, DEN, ORD, IAD was all entirely UA

AC flight to most of UA hubs was all relatively recent additions. If you look at the blackout routes for the old JV proposal, you'll see only YVR-SFO was listed. That's simply because there was no competition for the other routes as AC don't fly there.

Indeed. Part of the reason why UA is so big at YVR is because AC simply wasn't present in those same markets until very recently. That's not the case at YYZ/YUL.

There are other factors too, however. YVR's cruise industry draws a significant amount of US point of sale traffic. Having a US airline (with mainline equipment) to serve that huge market makes sense, as most nationalities tend to fly their own national airlines.

Originally Posted by nname

So YHZ had it wrong for being the second highest % increase over 2021? Or they don't consider YQB as "Tier 1" airport

It's probably the latter scenario.

And speaking of airports with high % increases, I'm thinking YTZ should be up there as well, once they publish their results (they rarely do. Hopefully they will this year). They handled even less traffic than YQB in 2021, and should be above 1 million in 2022 as well I would think.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It's probably the latter scenario.

Are you accusing Haligonians of conceit and arrogance???

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Are you accusing Haligonians of conceit and arrogance???

Haha I do because it's true.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

WestJet starts Boeing 737 service on Calgary YYC- Seattle SEA - YYC flight route this Sunday April 30 2023,for the Spring/Summer season.

I think it is a positive especially if it provides connecting traffic for all of those flight to Europe. Air Canada has been very successful connecting the US to Europe through Toronto. Given how far west Calgary is they have fewer major US cities where they could play the same trick. Seattle is one of them. Plus you add in the fact it is a Delta hub make it even better.

I do hope they continue to do the same thing they did with Saskatoon of taking over flights to Delta hubs. Victoria (YYJ) use to have a Delta flight to Seattle that was pulled during COVID and has not returned. Having WestJet Encore take that over would be fantastic.

[Calfan12]

WS flight 80's Inaugural Calgary YYC - Tokyo NRT, Japan & 1st flight to Asia on the Boeing 787-9 ,is departing from YYC Airport Gate D80, this Sunday April 30.

WestJet actually picked a good time to start up the YYC - NRT- YYC flight route 3x weekly for the (Spring/Summer season).

As it is Japans Golden Week National holiday from Sat, Apr 29 – Fri, May 5 2023. As between April 28- May 7 300,000 Japanese people have booked overseas/International trip.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Narita’s farewell to COVID blues with 7-fold rise in trips overseas. Passengers headed for overseas destinations thronged Narita Airport outside Tokyo on April 29 at the start of the Golden Week national holidays.

Officials said it would likely be the facility’s peak day until the passengers return in early May.

Narita International Airport Corp. said that around 300,000 passengers were booked to depart for trips overseas between April 28 and May 7, marking a seven-fold increase over last year and close to 70 percent of the level recorded in 2018 before the novel coronavirus pandemic.

Many passengers were already using the international airport in Chiba Prefecture close to Tokyo on April 28 for overseas destinations now that entry regulations have been lifted.

May 7 is expected to mark the peak for returning passengers, officials said.

In addition, 245,000 or so passengers were expected to use Narita Airport for domestic flights, about the same level as pre-COVID-19 Golden Week seasons.

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14897272

[hollywoodcory]

Sunwing officially joins the WestJet group

https://westjet.mediaroom.com/2023-05-01-WestJet-Group-completes-acquisition-of-Sunwing

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Sunwing officially joins the WestJet group

https://westjet.mediaroom.com/2023-05-01-WestJet-Group-completes-acquisition-of-Sunwing

In order for WG to maintain a balanced fleet year-round, I could see WG eventually becoming WS' rouge equivalent. Mostly sun flying in winter, shifting a lot more than currently to low yield domestic in summer.