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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1501  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 6:24 PM
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You can't cross the street at only one of these intersections... hilarious/pathetic

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  #1502  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 6:48 PM
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Not too far from Portage and Main...:

Stradbrook @ QE Way (Main Street) is 91% of the traffic at Portage and Main. And I can disrupt traffic in both directions to cross as a pedestrian.
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  #1503  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 8:20 PM
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Isn't the city's most dangerous intersection for pedestrians actually at Leila & McPhillips? Shouldn't the folks who play the "pedestrian safety" card for keeping P & M closed be worried about those folks? Just asking.
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  #1504  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
Isn't the city's most dangerous intersection for pedestrians actually at Leila & McPhillips? Shouldn't the folks who play the "pedestrian safety" card for keeping P & M closed be worried about those folks? Just asking.
Honestly it's got nothing to do with pedestrian safety, and one councilor was saying the biggest reason is extra cost for transit due to extra delays. If they can speed up implementation of the transit master plan and find the money to get Union Station and Portage and Main Station done the impact will be nil. It makes the most sense to get the Portage and Main station at the same time as they do the membrane replacement.
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  #1505  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 8:53 PM
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^ that's the part that doesn't compute with me tho, the whole it's gonna add X amount of time to each bus trip. So we need something like a thousand more buses on the road to compensate for ONE intersection. And a new storage facility to house them.

It's all a bunch of nonsense and special interest political noise IMO. Just open the intersection to pedestrians. The sky will not fall. Buses will not cease to operate. There are pedestrians and buses at every single other intersection in this city, and wait for it.... often at the SAME time! *gasp*
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  #1506  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 9:29 PM
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^ that's the part that doesn't compute with me tho, the whole it's gonna add X amount of time to each bus trip. So we need something like a thousand more buses on the road to compensate for ONE intersection. And a new storage facility to house them.


It was the most preposterously hysterical doom and gloom scenario imaginable.

Get real, those barriers weren't placed there to keep buses moving. It was done to make Trizec happy, to make sure that they got a proper return on their 1970s investment. There is a book by late urban studies professor David Walker that explains all of it... "The Great Winnipeg Dream".
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  #1507  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 11:42 PM
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It was the most preposterously hysterical doom and gloom scenario imaginable.

Get real, those barriers weren't placed there to keep buses moving. It was done to make Trizec happy, to make sure that they got a proper return on their 1970s investment. There is a book by late urban studies professor David Walker that explains all of it... "The Great Winnipeg Dream".
Now that you mention it, I remember it was all part of the promise to Trizec at the time. I think city hall was desperate to find anyone to get some construction happening in downtown, and the Trizec project seemed to fill the bill. There was definitely a feeling that "finally something was happening" at the time, so I guess city hall got want it wanted.

Funny how the whole "transit needs/pedestrian safety/disastrous traffic delay" excuse rose to such prominence over what seemed to be such a short length of time when opening P & M became a real possibility.

If I were a cynic, I'd think the current stakeholders wanted to extend their exclusive access to foot traffic at P & M, so they cooked up the sky-is-falling narrative to scare people into continuing to block pedestrian crossing at street level. It probably wouldn't have been hard to find city counsellors willing to buckle, and scare enough suburbanites into backing their claims.

I'd only believe that if I were a cynic, of course.
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  #1508  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 11:48 PM
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You can't cross the street at only one of these intersections... hilarious/pathetic

4,5,6,7,9 and 10 have to deal with every week
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  #1509  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 1:39 AM
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As far as current stakeholders, it’s been made very clear that nearly every stakeholder in close proximity is ardently IN FAVOUR of opening the intersection. Only in Winnipeg can the powerful business lobby apparently have no effect on the outcome of a civic overhaul that benefits everyone. The refusal to simply do what’s obviously the correct thing to do has everything to do with suburban councillors afraid of losing their jobs to angry NIMBY commuters who don’t even live downtown…as if they would even be bothered to go out and be bothered to actually vote. I’m convinced this whole exercise is just the dragging out of the inevitable outcome of people jumping the new barricades to cross traffic, until someone gets hit, and then they finally capitulate and yell “well the jaywalkers have forced our hand, can’t blame us for opening the intersection for safety reasons, not our fault!”
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  #1510  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
Now that you mention it, I remember it was all part of the promise to Trizec at the time. I think city hall was desperate to find anyone to get some construction happening in downtown, and the Trizec project seemed to fill the bill. There was definitely a feeling that "finally something was happening" at the time, so I guess city hall got want it wanted.

Funny how the whole "transit needs/pedestrian safety/disastrous traffic delay" excuse rose to such prominence over what seemed to be such a short length of time when opening P & M became a real possibility.

If I were a cynic, I'd think the current stakeholders wanted to extend their exclusive access to foot traffic at P & M, so they cooked up the sky-is-falling narrative to scare people into continuing to block pedestrian crossing at street level. It probably wouldn't have been hard to find city counsellors willing to buckle, and scare enough suburbanites into backing their claims.

I'd only believe that if I were a cynic, of course.
The stakeholders stopped objecting a long time ago. Let's face it, the underground concourses are mostly an empty void. It is far from whatever fanciful traffic projections Trizec had back in the 70s. I'm sure the current landlords realize that any changes can only be an improvement compared to what exists.

I honestly don't think anyone has a vested interest in keeping the corner closed to pedestrians. I think it's just Winnipeg's paralyzing fear of change and nothing else.
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  #1511  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 2:10 AM
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  #1512  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 8:32 PM
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Great thread!
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  #1513  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 8:42 PM
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Yeah, that is interesting. Thanks, bomberjet!
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  #1514  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2023, 2:21 PM
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We've had too P&M design contests over the years, with I think winners chosen from both. What ever happened to those?
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  #1515  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 8:56 PM
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Open House at 201 Portage and at Scotiabank building coming up. Come voice your opinion in person!

https://201portage.com/portage-main-revitalization-information-sessions/
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  #1516  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 2:01 PM
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Front Page of the Globe

Winnipeg rethinks iconic Portage and Main, but not the barriers
Rachel Ferstl

Winnipeggers are being given a chance to reimagine one of Canada’s most famous crossroads. At Portage and Main, citizens are being asked to consider designs for lookout towers, a circular “sky garden,” and a monument. They’ve been asked whether they want mobile food vendors, pop-up businesses, artwork or Indigenous programming.

What they won’t get to decide is whether they can finally walk across those streets.

Concrete barricades have closed the intersection to pedestrian traffic at street level since 1979, forcing people to cross through an underground concourse, another intersection a distance away, or to jaywalk.

The barricades are now set to come down and the intersection will be dug up because the waterproofing layer that protects the underground concourse and mall needs repair, the city announced last month. The city released the survey on the intersection’s future April 25 and it closes May 26.

But the city says the intersection will not be opening to pedestrian crossing at street level, and the barricades will be replaced.

“I have actually been scaling the barricades for decades,” said Gail Asper, chair of the Winnipegbased philanthropic organization the Asper Foundation. “I absolutely believe that those barricades should never have existed, and they should absolutely be taken down immediately.”

Ms. Asper has been working at 201 Portage Ave. for about 30 years. She said throughout that time, she has lobbied every city government to take down the barricades and let people cross.

“I’m so angry about this. This is the stupidest thing that we have to have this discussion,” she said.

“This should be a place where people drive slowly, admire the architecture, admire the shops, the restaurants, and in no way should the heart of the city be seen as a highway through to other destinations.”

The intersection is a fixture in the city. It marks the point at which two of Winnipeg’s main thoroughfares, Portage Avenue and Main Street, connect downtown. It’s where Winnipeggers cheered at the end of war, protested in the 1919 General Strike and celebrated the return of the city’s NHL team, the Winnipeg Jets.

“It’s really the heart of Winnipeg,” said Jeffrey Thorsteinson, volunteer historian and researcher at the Winnipeg Architecture Foundation. “It still holds kind of a deep place in the psychology of the city.”

In 2018, the city held a non-binding plebiscite and asked Winnipeggers whether they support the opening of Portage and Main. Sixty-five per cent of voters said no.

For city council finance chair Jeff Browaty, who opposed opening the intersection during the plebiscite, fully opening Portage and Main would mean more traffic on other downtown streets and higher Winnipeg Transit costs.

“To me it really comes down to the movements of vehicles through our downtown,” he said. “I really think a lot of the public is a little too fixated on the intersection itself.”

Mr. Browaty said he’d rather see the underground concourse be more accessible and have improved lighting and visibility at street level.

Adam Dooley, who led a committee that encouraged Winnipeggers to “vote open” in 2018, said many of those votes came from suburban voters, who don’t spend much time downtown. He said downtown businesses, business improvement zones and residents mostly voted yes.

“It’s really ridiculous that the suburban vote swamped that,” Mr. Dooley said.

Opening the intersection isn’t a radical idea, Mr. Dooley added. He said the designs proposed by the city don’t need to be complicated.

“Before we go for a sky garden, perhaps we should try a crosswalk,” he said.

City planning consultant and former chief planner for Vancouver Brent Toderian said the issue comes down to a lack of understanding about the importance of a downtown.

“The suburban vote doesn’t understand how the downtown is the economic engine of the city, how it benefits everyone in the city, whether you ever go downtown or not, and how cities critically need their downtowns to be successful,” he said.

“The machinations and knots that Winnipeg specifically, like no other city I’ve seen, will tie itself into to avoid the obvious answer is mind boggling.”

Around the 1970s, the city was eager to revitalize and modernize its downtown, according to Christian Cassidy, a local history blogger and board member of the Manitoba Historical Society. It was struggling financially and losing residents to suburban sprawl.

So, when the developing company Trizec Corp. offered to build two office towers, a hotel, a five-storey bank, and an underground mall at Winnipeg’s main intersection, the city couldn’t refuse.

But the corporation had a few conditions. One of them was that the city would have to agree to close the intersection to pedestrians, which would, in theory, bring more foot traffic into the underground mall, Mr. Cassidy said.

In the end, all that was built was one tower, the underground concourse and a parkade at a cost of about $80-million, split between the city and Trizec, Mr. Cassidy said. The city held up part of its deal and closed the intersection to pedestrians.

Today, one of the main arguments about keeping the intersection closed is traffic congestion, Mr. Cassidy said.

“There’s a very strong desire amongst people that you need to keep it closed because it’ll be mayhem if you open up the intersection,” he said.

But for others like Brent Bellamy, a Winnipeg columnist and architect, reopening the intersection can’t happen soon enough.

“We take it over when we’re celebrating or mourning or protesting,” he said. “It has been a critical intersection since the beginning of time, really, and it would be great to see that come back.”
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  #1517  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 2:40 PM
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This article says it all. SO gut-wrenching that stupidity continues to reign abut P & M. I think every stupid urban decision in Winnipeg should henceforth be called a "Browaty".
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  #1518  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 11:43 PM
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^Dude! Yea that.

The Browaty

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  #1519  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 11:43 PM
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This article says it all. SO gut-wrenching that stupidity continues to reign abut P & M. I think every stupid urban decision in Winnipeg should henceforth be called a "Browaty".
Suburban councillors, suburbanites should have less say than the people living and or working in the area. Always a laughable yet trying nightmare for tourists and others. Only in Winnipeg do you not celebrate the most iconic intersection and wonder why the rest of downtown is a mess.
In New York, with more than 12 x our population, imagine them doing something so asinine & anti business like closing their busiest intersection.
If you want a freeway, build it in the burbs.Find an alternate route, If you do not like the traffic downtown.The suburbanites are not shopping there anyways
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  #1520  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 3:35 AM
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Let's keep it simple and open the goddam intersection once and for all.

I don't want no caveats, I don't want no extra fluff with it, as long as the necessary repairs and upgrades are NEEDED. Sky Gardens, and elevated walkways are nothing more than gimmicks, no matter which side you're on about this, and detractors of this idea has already been given ammo to shoot down any idea of opening this intersection with the current proposals, as well as past proposals.

Don't make me win the lottery and blow all my winnings out by buying Imrie demolition to completely take down the barriers myself.
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