The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think Portland selects in some ways for people who actually don't want the big city experience.

This is a big difference between Americans and Canadians.

Canadians are very self-conscious of their city being small or uncosmopolitan and constantly pump up their city as being worldly - and that can also be cringey - whereas Americans tend to be allergic to big cities.

A lot of it is racial animus, but this begs the question: if the US were Canada, wouldn't there be black flight, instead of white flight? Wouldn't white, professional Americans of the time have redlined black ghettos to be shantytowns on the outskirts, rather than flee valuable central city real estate?

Portland is one of a string of "it" cities in the United States that follows a familiar path. A predominantly white, midsized city with a bit of a quirky culture that presents itself as a small town but with a critical mass of people to support subcultures (and provide jobs) gets taken up, grows to be a big city, has big city problems, and people flee or the shine comes off. First came Portland, then came Austin and, now, I suppose, it's Nashville.

[jigglysquishy]

All three of Portland, Austin, and Nashville have the similarity of being great cities to visit. Less great cities to live in.

A lot of people experience the glamour of SXSW or CMA and fall in love with the city.

Things like housing market, commuting culture, job market, school systems don't come out to a tourist. But their high streets, restaurants and bars, and peak weather certainly do.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Blitz

Not really, at least not in London and Windsor. The system in London is improving but the general populace still views it as a system for students or the poor. In Windsor only the tunnel bus and the special events buses (Tigers/Red Wings/Lions games) seem to be considered essential services by the general populace.

At the beginning of the pandemic Windsor actually shut down its transit system entirely. Not just the tunnel bus, but the whole system. There were stories of essential workers being forced to shell out money for taxis to get to their jobs, and I think city officials got caught off guard, assuming that “everyone drives”. It was shut down for about six weeks, then went to a Sunday schedule, then later to a Saturday schedule. It was September 2022 before they resumed full service, not counting the tunnel bus.

That’s how disposable public transit is considered in Windsor.

I doubt it was the only system to shut down, but it’s the only one I heard about in Canada.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

All three of Portland, Austin, and Nashville have the similarity of being great cities to visit. Less great cities to live in.

Haven't been to Austin or Nashville but I've been to Portland maybe a dozen times. I'd say it's an OK city to visit and it's a bit hard to justify the longer drive (which has gotten bad mostly due to YVR/SEA traffic while transit options are unchanged as far as I know). Portland was sort of a mid-tier tourism destination and it has suffered a lot lately with downtown abandonment/vacancy and street problems.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Canadians are very self-conscious of their city being small or uncosmopolitan and constantly pump up their city as being worldly - and that can also be cringey - whereas Americans tend to be allergic to big cities.

We also just don't have a lot of options in this sparse country so as an example Vancouver is "the city" to move to in the western half of the country while in the US it would be one of a number of mid-sized options. Portland is a place you can move to for affordable real estate from California, while LA has more of a big city feel and both SF and Seattle tend to have very good employment opportunities.

I think even relocating across the country is probably easier in the US due to better travel and employment options.

I have always thought that a lot of their urban abandonment and disposability culture existed because things are in greater supply and are cheaper there. That even goes for big old buildings and urban space. That doesn't necessarily create a better outcome overall. People wonder why such great towns in NY or PA are emptying out but they are a dime a dozen there and there's a plethora of much nicer options of where to move, whereas in Canada they would be rare and closer to the top of the list.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by someone123

We also just don't have a lot of options in this sparse country so as an example Vancouver is "the city" to move to in the western half of the country while in the US it would be one of a number of mid-sized options. Portland is a place you can move to for affordable real estate from California, while LA has more of a big city feel and both SF and Seattle tend to have very good employment opportunities.

I think even relocating across the country is probably easier in the US due to better travel and employment options.

I have always thought that a lot of their urban abandonment and disposability culture existed because things are in greater supply and are cheaper there. That even goes for big old buildings and urban space. That doesn't necessarily create a better outcome overall. People wonder why such great towns in NY or PA are emptying out but they are a dime a dozen there and there's a plethora of much nicer options of where to move, whereas in Canada they would be rare and closer to the top of the list.

more Canadian move out of Vancouver than move in, Edmonton and Calgary are the cities in Western Canada Canadian move to.


july 1 2019 to 2020
https://www.calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com/insights/demographics/

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nite

That's not true at all as both Calgary and Edmonton have a similar amount of population increase as Vancouver.

The context is people who are interested in "bigger city living" more than other things like job opportunities and affordable real estate. With American-style urban offerings, this appeal in Vancouver would be lower.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by someone123

The context is people who are interested in "bigger city living" more than other things like job opportunities and affordable real estate. With American-style urban offerings, this appeal in Vancouver would be lower.

I don't think the stats bear this out as more Canadian leave Vancouver than movie to it every year.

People outside of Canada are the one who to Vancouver not really people already living in Canada

[someone123]

I don't think those stats relate in any significant way to what I'm saying, which has more to do with the kind of people who live in small portions of each of those metro areas and why they do what they do.

You could probably come up with similar stats for Kitchener vs. Toronto.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Craziest thing about that is it isn't the parking costs that keep me from driving to an event, it's the fact that I'm putting back at least a few beers during the course of the game/show.

I can't imagine how high rates of drinking and driving are in scenarios like that.

I often wonder about NFL games as legendary all-morning all-afternoon drunkfests with 75,000 people in the middle of a sea of parking in the suburbs.

[phone]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think those stats relate in any significant way to what I'm saying, which has more to do with the kind of people who live in small portions of each of those metro areas and why they do what they do.

You could probably come up with similar stats for Kitchener vs. Toronto.

The corollary to your argument is that nobody moves to Edmonton or Calgary for reasons other than employment, which I’m not sure is true either. I don’t deny the gut appeal of your point, but I don’t see how anyone could be strident about it without stats to back it up. It reminds me of the Richard Florida “creative class” argument which I understand has not really withstood the test of time.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Poilievre responded that a federal Conservative government won't be contributing to any such project that doesn't involve private vehicles.

This is not surprising at all, given the electoral politics. The rural/exurban areas surrounding Quebec City are the main base of CPC support in Quebec where most of their MPs are, and it's also the area of Quebec where they the most potential for gains - a lot of BQ-held ridings in the area where the CPC came in second.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Nite

more Canadian move out of Vancouver than move in, Edmonton and Calgary are the cities in Western Canada Canadian move to.


july 1 2019 to 2020
https://www.calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com/insights/demographics/

Well that's a one year snapshot. I'd imagine those numbers fluctuate a lot between the years. Just the next year it seems as though the numbers were the exact opposite of those above:
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-interprovincial-migration-statistics-october-2021

I don't have the stats but I'd think Vancouver is still a net destination for Canadians, not a net supplier of population.

[ssiguy]

Latest numbers have Alberta growing significantly faster than BC. BC had it's first negative interprovincial migrants last quarter for the first time in nearly a decade. Alberta suffered from 2015 to 2020 until oil prices started to rise again so Canadians didn't move there en masse like they traditionally have done.

Now Alberta is booming once again and it's not just oil as the province's tech sector is taking off as well as it's {especially Calgary} importance as a major distribution centre and it's flourishing hydrogen sector.

Now that times are good in Alberta while BC is suffering from a slower real estate market, sky high rental & real estate prices, and a critical lack of commercial land, many are heading to Alberta and especially the young who simply can't afford BC any longer. Alberta is vastly cheaper but also has much lower taxes combined with higher wages.
BC has a lot of things going for it that make it appealing to many both economically and lifestyle wise but it's sky high cost of living simply makes it a write-off for most Canadians.

BC's truly horrifying cost of living is it's economic Achilles Heel and unfortunately it maybe too late to turn the ship around.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

A lot of it is racial animus, but this begs the question: if the US were Canada, wouldn't there be black flight, instead of white flight? Wouldn't white, professional Americans of the time have redlined black ghettos to be shantytowns on the outskirts, rather than flee valuable central city real estate?

First Nations might have something to say about that.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Latest numbers have Alberta growing significantly faster than BC. BC had it's first negative interprovincial migrants last quarter for the first time in nearly a decade. Alberta suffered from 2015 to 2020 until oil prices started to rise again so Canadians didn't move there en masse like they traditionally have done.

Now Alberta is booming once again and it's not just oil as the province's tech sector is taking off as well as it's {especially Calgary} importance as a major distribution centre and it's flourishing hydrogen sector.

Now that times are good in Alberta while BC is suffering from a slower real estate market, sky high rental & real estate prices, and a critical lack of commercial land, many are heading to Alberta and especially the young who simply can't afford BC any longer. Alberta is vastly cheaper but also has much lower taxes combined with higher wages.
BC has a lot of things going for it that make it appealing to many both economically and lifestyle wise but it's sky high cost of living simply makes it a write-off for most Canadians.

BC's truly horrifying cost of living is it's economic Achilles Heel and unfortunately it maybe too late to turn the ship around.

From 2016 to 2021, BC grew by 352 000 people vs Alberta 195 000 people. In 2022 BC grew by 147,540 vs Alberta 164,793 people. Even if you cherry pick the one year, that is hardly a significant difference. Overall, BC is growing at a much higher rate than Alberta over the last 6 years.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by logan5

From 2016 to 2021, BC grew by 352 000 people vs Alberta 195 000 people. In 2022 BC grew by 147,540 vs Alberta 164,793 people. Even if you cherry pick the one year, that is hardly a significant difference. Overall, BC is growing at a much higher rate than Alberta over the last 6 years.

Yeah, Alberta’s economy had a rough time in that period.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

At the beginning of the pandemic Windsor actually shut down its transit system entirely. Not just the tunnel bus, but the whole system. There were stories of essential workers being forced to shell out money for taxis to get to their jobs, and I think city officials got caught off guard, assuming that “everyone drives”. It was shut down for about six weeks, then went to a Sunday schedule, then later to a Saturday schedule. It was September 2022 before they resumed full service, not counting the tunnel bus.

That’s how disposable public transit is considered in Windsor.

I doubt it was the only system to shut down, but it’s the only one I heard about in Canada.

I think that is slowly changing, as ridership for Transit Windsor is already 20% above pre pandemic levels, and there is massive pressure to expand and increase service.

They are investing $63M over the next ten years to modernize and add new express routes, so hopefully the city realizes that good Transit is absolutely necessary for a growing city.

[J.OT13]

From March 2022. Hoping we see some plans for a rebuild soon. I haven't used it myself, but I can imagine transferring between outbound Expo lines must be quite a pain.

Adding a third track and centre platform could be a good solution to improve the station without shutting it down for more than a few evenings and weekends.

TransLink acquires Boucher Centre for future SkyTrain Columbia Station upgrade

Kenneth Chan, DailyHive
Mar 22 2022, 5:09 pm

The extent and scope of the planned major overhaul of SkyTrain Columbia Station in downtown New Westminster is hinted at by a recent property acquisition.

TransLink confirmed to Daily Hive Urbanized it has acquired the Boucher Centre property, located immediately south of the station at 435 Columbia Street, for $17.7 million. The purpose of the acquisition of the 17,200 sq ft lot is directly related to the future upgrade of the station.

Records show the deal closed in December 2021.

Few details are available at this time, but the building could conceivably be demolished and redeveloped for an expanded footprint of the station to address its significant capacity and accessibility challenges.

Columbia Station serves as a major interchange hub on the Expo Line for passengers travelling towards Waterfront, Production-Way University, and King George stations. However, when it was designed more than two decades ago, it was not intended to serve as an interchange for multiple train lines, which was a purpose it gained in 2002 when the original looping Millennium Line routing — now exclusively the Expo Line — opened.

Currently, particularly during peak periods, overcrowding can be an issue due to the volume of passengers transferred on the narrow platforms and circulation passageways.

In 2019, Columbia Station saw 1.64 million annual boardings, representing a 2.6% year-over-year increase, making it the 34th busiest SkyTrain station. Average boardings on weekdays reached 5,160, while average boardings on Saturdays and Sundays/holidays reached 3,610 and 2,630, respectively.

An overhaul of Columbia Station is also likely necessary in advance of future extensions of the SkyTrain network, especially the Surrey-Langley SkyTrain project, which would increase the volume of transfers through the station.

TransLink previously told Daily Hive Urbanized that Columbia Station’s upgrades will tackle accessibility, capacity, and customer flow.

In October 2021, after conducting a bidding process, TransLink selected design firm Perkins & Will to conduct architectural, engineering, technical design, site feasibility assessments, and urban planning work for the Columbia Station overhaul. It was stated that the successful proponent would also examine the feasibility of “three side-platform upgrade approaches.”

TransLink is also planning major upgrades for Edmonds Station and Stadium-Chinatown Station.

Earlier this month, the public transit authority announced a $33 million capacity and accessibility upgrade of Brentwood Town Centre Station would begin in April, with completion targeted for 2024.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/435-colu...w-westminster-translink-columbia-station

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Latest numbers have Alberta growing significantly faster than BC. BC had it's first negative interprovincial migrants last quarter for the first time in nearly a decade. Alberta suffered from 2015 to 2020 until oil prices started to rise again so Canadians didn't move there en masse like they traditionally have done.

Now Alberta is booming once again and it's not just oil as the province's tech sector is taking off as well as it's {especially Calgary} importance as a major distribution centre and it's flourishing hydrogen sector.

Now that times are good in Alberta while BC is suffering from a slower real estate market, sky high rental & real estate prices, and a critical lack of commercial land, many are heading to Alberta and especially the young who simply can't afford BC any longer. Alberta is vastly cheaper but also has much lower taxes combined with higher wages.
BC has a lot of things going for it that make it appealing to many both economically and lifestyle wise but it's sky high cost of living simply makes it a write-off for most Canadians.

BC's truly horrifying cost of living is it's economic Achilles Heel and unfortunately it maybe too late to turn the ship around.

Why do you continue to hold yourself hostage in such a horrible province to live in??

Broken record Ontario moron