Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Migrant_Coconut]

Buying out hotels didn't work last time - even the pro-poverty advocates can see that.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It hasn't "worked" because there has been zero enforcement. Like any rule, you need the carrot and the stick.

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LOL your bias is clear.

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I'd love a ton more information and data on spaces available, who is occupying them, and who is requesting more space. All the way through the system until they are into permanent housing.

The opaque nature of these numbers serves some interests.

Before, it didn’t have a carrot or a stick; now, without an alternative beyond another park/street, it’s just all stick. And so despite certain posters thinking everything from this council is the Best Thing Ever just because they voted for them... it’ll pretty much be the exact same result. No bias, just deep, deep cynicism.

Indeed. The BC Housing CEO is gone and the province is auditing his wife’s “non-profit” Atira, so that’s a start.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Buying out hotels didn't work last time - even the pro-poverty advocates can see that.

Not buying them at $500k/door, that's a gross waste of money.

Pay nightly for AirBNB if they have so much to give.

Indeed. The BC Housing CEO is gone and the province is auditing his wife’s “non-profit” Atira, so that’s a start.

Long overdue. A full audit on anybody receiving more than $500k annually from BC Housing should be done.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Fun fact: EWR means "Extreme Weather Response," or non-shelter spaces (e.g. community centres) converted to shelters. They kick you out once the storm is over.

That excludes 86 of those 108 beds - including the 16 in North Van which you lumped into Vancouver's count for some reason - leaving 22 permanent beds for 117 Hastings campers. Shame on you.

True, and congrats on getting back to society. Like I said: we should aim for enough shelter/treatment/detainment space for everybody, in order to sort the genuinely housable from the problem cases; getting rid of the latter would likely improve quality of life in existing shelters too. Simply tearing down the tents and acting like that solves the problem just because ABC came up with it? Hardly effective.

Shelter is shelter. If they get kicked out, they can go community centre's or charity halls to get food and shower. Better than to rot in the bed. Besides we were talking about shelters, and never said if it's temporary or permanent. Double shame on you.


So much nicer in the neighbourhood now. The local residents and businesses deserve that. Oppenheimer Park is also free of tents and look rather clean when I passed by the area just now.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Buying out hotels didn't work last time - even the pro-poverty advocates can see that.



Before, it didn’t have a carrot or a stick; now, without an alternative beyond another park/street, it’s just all stick. And so despite certain posters thinking everything from this council is the Best Thing Ever just because they voted for them... it’ll pretty much be the exact same result. No bias, just deep, deep cynicism.

Indeed. The BC Housing CEO is gone and the province is auditing his wife’s “non-profit” Atira, so that’s a start.

I see you rather have Vision ot Kennedy Stewart running the show. Glad you are the minority. Providing carrots only will never ever work.

Agree that buying cheap hotels doesn't work. Besides that is supposed to be temporary, but like the DTES these hotels are now a permanent blight.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Shelter is shelter. If they get kicked out, they can go community centre's or charity halls to get food and shower. Better than to rot in the bed. Besides we were talking about shelters, and never said if it's temporary or permanent. Double shame on you.

So much nicer in the neighbourhood now. The local residents and businesses deserve that. Oppenheimer Park is also free of tents and look rather clean when I passed by the area just now.

If it's a temporary shelter, they'll be back out on the streets again and we'll be right back to where we started or worse - removing the tent cities means places to stay for the long term, which you falsely said existed. Triple shame on you.

For now. We'll see how long it lasts.

Originally Posted by Vin

I see you rather have Vision ot Kennedy Stewart running the show. Glad you are the minority. Providing carrots only will never ever work...

There's no carrots in sight, period. Robertson and Stewart are both guilty of virtue-signalling, everybody knows that, but you're perfectly fine with a different form of virtue-signalling that you agree with. I'd rather have permanent solutions.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Shelter is shelter. If they get kicked out, they can go community centre's or charity halls to get food and shower. Better than to rot in the bed. Besides we were talking about shelters, and never said if it's temporary or permanent. Double shame on you.

So much nicer in the neighbourhood now. The local residents and businesses deserve that. Oppenheimer Park is also free of tents and look rather clean when I passed by the area just now.

Shelter's only shelter when it's open. When it's closed, it isn't shelter. And there wasn't (and until the new camp shelter on Main opens) weren't enough shelter beds to offer space for the unhoused, let alone permanent housing.

Apparently the City has realised how bad things are, (and implicitly acknowledged there weren't enough shelter beds) because now, a week late, they're opening up those closed extreme weather shelter beds for 3 nights.

Oppenheimer Park doesn't have any tents on it, but CRAB Park now has more, and there are all sorts of little encampments popping up all over the area. There are some on Alexander, and there's now a bigger camp between the viaducts. But out of sight, out of mind's so much better?

[whatnext]

Maybe we can house some of them here:

One of Vancouver's most expensive properties has been taken over by squatters
While police investigate reports of conflicts between campers and neighbours, the property's manager says the trespassers have gone so far as to change the locks on the entrance gate

Author of the article: Joanne Lee-Young
Published Apr 10, 2023

For nearly a year, campers have set up a makeshift shelter on one of Vancouver’s most expensive pieces of real estate, leading to friction with the owner and neighbours, and prompting calls to police....

....The properties are owned by B.C. numbered companies with a sole director, Edison Washington, who lists a West Vancouver residential address. A 2016 story by former Province reporter Sam Cooper reported that Edison Washington is also known as Qiang Wang and that he and his wife had purchased $152 million worth of Vancouver property since 2011, including the Belmont Avenue properties and parcels on Cambie Street that have since been redeveloped.

The campers have been constantly changing the locks of the gate at the entrance of the lot at 4883 Belmont Ave...

....The listings for the properties were originally held by real estate agent Danny Deng, who didn’t return Postmedia’s calls. Deng’s ad said that a potential buyer could “apply for redevelopment” and, at first, included a photo illustration that showed 27 residences on the combined parcel......(bold mine)

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...perties-has-been-taken-over-by-squatters

[SpongeG]

an interesting look at how Seattle does things

What B.C. can learn from Seattle's approach to ending homeless camps

Non-profit's program involves visiting encampments, building trust, then developing individual housing plans
CBC News · Posted: Apr 11, 2023

As part of his promise to take swift, decisive action on homelessness, Premier David Eby introduced the Homes for People plan, which looks to create more than 100,000 new homes by 2028.

More than halfway through the report is a new strategy to address homeless encampments.

It involves action response teams working with homeless encampment residents directly to help them find appropriate housing. So far, the details are limited, but it's based on a model that has seen success in Seattle.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, Nichole Alexander — director of outreach and special initiatives with Seattle-based non-profit Purpose. Dignity. Action — and her team have been working to address homeless encampments in a way that doesn't involve police officers.

Through the program JustCare, created in partnership with CoLEAD, case managers respond to encampments as soon as they're established. Staff visit daily, build trust with residents, listen to their needs, and eventually develop an individual housing plan for each person.

"It takes time and it takes relationship," said Alexander.

But it works, she says, adding her group has attended and resolved almost 20 encampments in the Seattle area, with more than 90 per cent of homeless residents accepting housing through JustCare.

The work doesn't end after an encampment is cleared. Alexander says case managers continue to work with residents for another year after they get keys to their apartments to ensure the transition is lasting.

"To move into your own place and to really have somebody there that understands your journey with you has been key to having success."

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-seattle-homeless-camp-approach-1.6805216

[WarrenC12]

Nice article. It doesn't mention drugs though.

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nice article. It doesn't mention drugs though.

And they did not say how many people were actually removed from the streets. Not the percentage, but actual people.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Changing City

But out of sight, out of mind's so much better?

Is a park or a less concentrated camp better? Yes, because it’s not blocking access to buildings and creating a fire hazard for those buildings and residents.

The COV had valid reasons for breaking up the encampment beyond the one-sided “Ken Sim is heartless” narrative.

Would anyone here be ok if the sidewalk in front of their building was filled with tents and fires were occurring regularly?

Housing is the ultimate solution, yes, but this situation was untenable, even in the short-term.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Is a park or a less concentrated camp better? Yes, because it’s not blocking access to buildings and creating a fire hazard for those buildings and residents.

The COV had valid reasons for breaking up the encampment beyond the one-sided “Ken Sim is heartless” narrative.

Would anyone here be ok if the sidewalk in front of their building was filled with tents and fires were occurring regularly?

Housing is the ultimate solution, yes, but this situation was untenable, even in the short-term.

I entirely agree that the situation of tents, and propane tanks on the street had to be stopped. I am very unimpressed with the way the City has gone about this 'decampment'. They apparently didn't inform any of the shelter operators, or BC Housing that the 'sweep' was going to happen, or that unlike previous efforts it wasn't a one-off, but a daily event. We know that at least the City Manager (and the Mayor, standing next to him) knew there weren't shelter beds available as an alternate when the operation started.

This was carefully planned - there's a base for the operation in the police impound lot under the viaducts. They hired trucks, switched crews for regular garbage pickup, had a lot of VPD available, but they didn't have any plans for where people would go. My guess is they thought the new work camp on Main, or the restored Water St SRO that was damaged in the Winter's Hotel fire would be available, but they weren't. They've opened extreme weather shelters now, which is better, but now there are mini encampments and people sleeping in doorways and in alleys and under tarps, so we can be reasonably sure there will be additional problems with fewer supports.

That's likely to just scatter the problems into more obscure corners, and add even more trauma to the lives of many traumatized people. Now some of them are wandering around Chinatown and the eastern side of Downtown, trying to drag their belongings and tent with them all day.

The Seattle article shows this might have been approached differently, and it's good that the Provincial Housing Plan will encourage / support this different approach. It's interesting to see Portland (with a far worse problem that Vancouver) have started to change their approach too.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Would anyone here be ok if the sidewalk in front of their building was filled with tents and fires were occurring regularly?

The million dollar question.

The biggest victims of the DTES are the local residents themselves, housed and otherwise.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I entirely agree that the situation of tents, and propane tanks on the street had to be stopped. I am very unimpressed with the way the City has gone about this 'decampment'. They apparently didn't inform any of the shelter operators, or BC Housing that the 'sweep' was going to happen, or that unlike previous efforts it wasn't a one-off, but a daily event. We know that at least the City Manager (and the Mayor, standing next to him) knew there weren't shelter beds available as an alternate when the operation started.

This was carefully planned - there's a base for the operation in the police impound lot under the viaducts. They hired trucks, switched crews for regular garbage pickup, had a lot of VPD available, but they didn't have any plans for where people would go. My guess is they thought the new work camp on Main, or the restored Water St SRO that was damaged in the Winter's Hotel fire would be available, but they weren't. They've opened extreme weather shelters now, which is better, but now there are mini encampments and people sleeping in doorways and in alleys and under tarps, so we can be reasonably sure there will be additional problems with fewer supports.

That's likely to just scatter the problems into more obscure corners, and add even more trauma to the lives of many traumatized people. Now some of them are wandering around Chinatown and the eastern side of Downtown, trying to drag their belongings and tent with them all day.

The Seattle article shows this might have been approached differently, and it's good that the Provincial Housing Plan will encourage / support this different approach. It's interesting to see Portland (with a far worse problem that Vancouver) have started to change their approach too.

I agree with all of this.

I take issue with activists trying to maintain the presence of tents on Hastings. Part of me understands that this does put more pressure on the city and province to accelerate housing but it also reactivates a dangerous situation that fails to consider the people housed there.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I entirely agree that the situation of tents, and propane tanks on the street had to be stopped. I am very unimpressed with the way the City has gone about this 'decampment'. They apparently didn't inform any of the shelter operators, or BC Housing that the 'sweep' was going to happen, or that unlike previous efforts it wasn't a one-off, but a daily event. We know that at least the City Manager (and the Mayor, standing next to him) knew there weren't shelter beds available as an alternate when the operation started.

This was carefully planned - there's a base for the operation in the police impound lot under the viaducts. They hired trucks, switched crews for regular garbage pickup, had a lot of VPD available, but they didn't have any plans for where people would go. My guess is they thought the new work camp on Main, or the restored Water St SRO that was damaged in the Winter's Hotel fire would be available, but they weren't. They've opened extreme weather shelters now, which is better, but now there are mini encampments and people sleeping in doorways and in alleys and under tarps, so we can be reasonably sure there will be additional problems with fewer supports.

That's likely to just scatter the problems into more obscure corners, and add even more trauma to the lives of many traumatized people. Now some of them are wandering around Chinatown and the eastern side of Downtown, trying to drag their belongings and tent with them all day.

The Seattle article shows this might have been approached differently, and it's good that the Provincial Housing Plan will encourage / support this different approach. It's interesting to see Portland (with a far worse problem that Vancouver) have started to change their approach too.

Happy now?

More than 100 DTES homeless will move to South Granville tower
https://biv.com/article/2023/04/more-100-dtes-homeless-will-move-south-granville-tower

I love that this operation was "planned". You should also realize that many people add traumas on their own accord, and should hold no one else responsible for it. Everyone can become better, and it just depends on the will-power of an individual.

As for having "mini encampments", it is much better this way as the concentration of so many addicts along a street makes it so much easier for drug-pushing predators peddling their dirty wares, and for folks to become hooked on to a wider array of drugs. I say spread them out, as far as possible from the concentration of filth. Perhaps that is the only way people can finally become better.

[Vin]

Just 2.5 years for killing someone these days? Wow.....

Vancouver man gets 30 months in prison for fatal Downtown Eastside stabbing
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highl...fatal-downtown-eastside-stabbing-6839818

What a broken country we are in, really.

I guess we should all be learning how to steal or rob as these won't even be considered as crimes anymore.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Just 2.5 years for killing someone these days? Wow.....

Did you read the case details? Perhaps you should.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If it's a temporary shelter, they'll be back out on the streets again and we'll be right back to where we started or worse - removing the tent cities means places to stay for the long term, which you falsely said existed. Triple shame on you.

For now. We'll see how long it lasts.



There's no carrots in sight, period. Robertson and Stewart are both guilty of virtue-signalling, everybody knows that, but you're perfectly fine with a different form of virtue-signalling that you agree with. I'd rather have permanent solutions.

The results speak for themselves .......the decampment so far is nothing but a resounding success.

Go, Ken Sim and team!

Number of reported assaults, fires, and overdoses drop following Hastings decampment
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hastings-encampment-downtown-eastside-vancouver-removal-update

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

The results speak for themselves .......the decampment so far is nothing but a resounding success.

Go, Ken Sim and team!

In case you've forgotten, we already did this last year, and several times in the years before that - they came back a few months later. Premature celebration is a very bad idea.

[jollyburger]

Hopefully they aren't too high to ignore the giant surveillance trailer



https://twitter.com/VancouverPD/status/1648053644502401024/