Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Comrade]

My mad photoshop skillz since that view in the renderings is NOT what anyone would actually see lmao:

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by Comrade

My mad photoshop skillz since that view in the renderings is NOT what anyone would actually see lmao:

I think the reaction to the proposal would have been better if they had used the actual view instead. It shows that the stacks wouldn't really be blocking some super amazing view (personally, I love basically all our views of the mountains but still).

I really think the stacks would actually look great in the real context of the site.

[Comrade]

The stacks have the potential to become iconic. Like, if you follow baseball, there's a few stadiums where all you have to do is see the outfield and you instantly know whose stadium it is.

Beyond the Green Monster, which itself is iconic, everyone knows the Citgo sign at Boston:



Everyone knows Pittsburgh's yellow bridges:



San Francisco with the Bay.

Baltimore with that warehouse:



It's something that stands out - wholly unique for baseball.

Most stadiums either face the skyline, which is always nice but most skylines look generic anyway that up close or, like Coors Field in Denver, align toward a view of nothing...

[TheGeographer]

Stoked to hear SLC is serious about MLB!

I love that Coors Field points towards nothing. You get to see some amazing sunsets. If you wanna see downtown you can stroll over to the rooftop party bar and see some cool views of the downtown buildings popping out over the stadium.

Agree with the old stacks for the SLC stadium. Would make the SLC stadium stand out and be recognizable. Also would be cool if the design allowed views of the mountains and downtown SLC off in the distance from some of the upper decks.

[Marvland]

Agreed Comrade. My favorite ballpark view is for sure Pittsburgh. Imagine our backdrop spring to fall with the alpenglow of the Wasatch. Surely one of the best views in baseball. This is from my personal favorite perspective from the 10th North overpass I took after the sun came out for the first time in months. But you get the idea:

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Orlando made a comment awhile back that they hadn't really considered a stadium in the Power District master plan.

Maybe this op-ed put the idea into some important heads

Somebody on this forum is either a soothsayer or has some serious sway in these parts.

[Marvland]

A couple of little nuggets on the Big League Utah site https://bigleagueutah.com/. Among the signatories is one of the heads of Infinite Scale in C9. An amazing SLC firm that designed, among other things, the experiential design stuff for Levi Stadium, Raiders Stadium and a bunch of other amazing sports venues. The contracting firm will be Mortenson Construction, who helped build Atlanta’s Battery around Truist park for the Braves. That park and development is spectacular. Very exciting times.

Guys this team is not messing around. The hardest part is securing a parcel big enough to do an all-in experience in a urban setting. The land is there, it's HUGE, and the money is there. This is one of the best overall packages the MLB will see. Maybe the best overall of any of the entrants when you take the Millers experience with pro sports into the mix. Everything around this smells like a deal might even be imminent. PINCH ME!

[Paniolo Man]

Most recent proposal for this site I'm aware of is called Gabbott's Row. 1450 S Main.


No clue what this is. Between 438 and 448 W 700 S.





The Row at Ballpark.

[bob rulz]

Definitely seems like a good proposal.

It makes the Millers putting a new stadium out in Daybreak for the Bees more confusing though. As others have said, most metro areas don't have both an MLB team and a AAA team, and I find it unlikely we could support both. Why go to a minor league game when you could see an MLB team?

[ajiuO]

I kind of wonder what the full scope of this sports district will be. From reading all the articles most of them mention that the owner of the Jazz would also like to have an NHL team in this same district. One or two of the articles even suggest that the Jazz would also play there. What would this mean for the Delta Center?

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Orlando made a comment awhile back that they hadn't really considered a stadium in the Power District master plan.

Maybe this op-ed put the idea into some important heads

I was there at the groundbreaking ceremony. It is a bit of a surprise, but I think it's a great location for an MLB stadium. I have been heavily involved in the design of the headquarters and the masterplanning. The masterplan rendering with the baseball park is just something to show a possibility. It was done by the group helping to show a concept of a possible baseball stadium location, and not by our team. It doesn't take into consideration where the new buildings for RMP are being planned at, but the designers of the stadium know and it will all be sorted out. Hopefully, I will still be involved in the overall masterplan. We are still working on it. There were new renderings and a video animation of the HQ area. I think there is a website up that has that info.

I really liked what Gail Miller shared. She said that back in the 60's when her and Larry were just starting their family, she would take her kids to see Larry play baseball where the former White Fields? was at, which I believe was previously, just directly on the other side of the river from Rocky Mountain Power's stacks. It's already a great location, but when she added that history and sentiment, I almost teared up. My dad was friends with Larry, and I have met him personally. This endeavor will honor Larry's legacy and pays homage to the love of the game with the LHM group.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by delts145

Am I understanding this correctly? Larry H. Miller is behind a AAA team at Daybreak and the Majors in Salt Lake's Power District!! WOW, even if it didn't happen for a few more years the fact that so many movers and shakers are behind working toward that location for MLB is very encouraging, to say the least!

Was interesting about Marv's comment regarding Warren Buffett owning the property. That's the kind of billionaire cartel you'd want to be involved. What a trip it would be if he became one of the investors.

Warren Buffet owning the property really doesn't mean anything either way, he has never had any interest in professional sports from an investment perspective, he's been quoted numerous times. So I'm sure his company would be happy to sell the land or strike a deal to make a crap-ton of money by leasing it for development, but there's no connection between Buffet and the chances of SLC to actually get a team.

MLB is not interested at all in expansion right now, their statements have been that they have to figure out Tampa and Oakland first, and there's no timeline on that.

Also this seems like a hideous rendering of a stadium, and not even logistically possible, the overhanging shade structures would block the light from the light stands if I'm looking at the rendering right, so hopefully this is just one person's design. Also, the smoke stacks would be a terrible backdrop. It'll be another crappy suburban stadium surrounded by low-rise buildings, no engagement outside game days, etc. I figured they would have learned their lesson with Vivint and not doing anything with the surrounding properties and land to make a totally engaging, high-energy entertainment district. I know Utah laws would prevent that type of cool neighborhood anyway, but I don't see any imagination in the design of this area either. That plot of land is too far from the mountains to make it spectacular, so as you see in the renderings now you'll have a bunch of low-rise buildings in the foreground, a peek of downtown high rises in the distance and then the mountains far off.

Put it at least on the east side of those smoke stacks, with the Jordan river running through the back side of the stadium property, integrate that in a unique way. Or, combined with the Rio Grande Project, put it on the site of SL Central, there's plenty of land there to build up around, and a better outfield view.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Definitely seems like a good proposal.

It makes the Millers putting a new stadium out in Daybreak for the Bees more confusing though. As others have said, most metro areas don't have both an MLB team and a AAA team, and I find it unlikely we could support both. Why go to a minor league game when you could see an MLB team?

Vegas may soon have AAA and MLB if they get the A's, and Tacoma is home to the Mariners AAA team, so it's not that unprecedented. Plus, the cost to see a MLB game is ridiculous compared to minor league baseball, especially for families (and even more so for big Utah families), you're looking at $300-400 or more for a family to go to an MLB game. So there's plenty that would still choose to see AAA games, especially if they're not season ticket holders.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I kind of wonder what the full scope of this sports district will be. From reading all the articles most of them mention that the owner of the Jazz would also like to have an NHL team in this same district. One or two of the articles even suggest that the Jazz would also play there. What would this mean for the Delta Center?

There's plenty of land ripe for development around the arena now, and they've done nothing with it. I don't really have a ton of faith that all of a sudden there will be this amazing entertainment district around this new area when the LHM company has shown an utter lack of interest to make the Vivint area a thriving hub of restaurants, bars, nightlife, etc. Plus, Utah law is going to prevent this from really being a great area, although it's going to be 10 years until an MLB team may possibly be ready to play here so things might change. But you're not going to have great alcohol options at the stadium (can't be letting adults carry a cocktail around the children), I assume their license laws would prevent a concentration of bars and restaurants in the one district, or you'll just have a bunch of restaurants serving beer only.

Look at Petco Park in San Diego... they put this on the outskirts of downtown in 2004, integrated the old Western Metal Building into the stadium itself, and the surrounding area exploded with high rise development, restaurants, bars, hotels. The ownership group back at that time was also a real estate developer and they owned a lot of the surrounding land, but look at this change in the area. These stadiums can be a catalyst, but there has to be a visionary behind it, that can imagine what's possible. Would we really see this kind of development on that side of SLC, or is this going to forever be a stadium surrounded by lower-end construction, a few entertainment options that may or may not thrive outside of gameday? Is this a destination area outside of a baseball team? Or will it be like the area surrounding the Bees stadium that was never really built up and enhanced over the years with the stadium being the catalyst?

I have serious doubts about the choice of location.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

Or will it be like the area surrounding the Bees stadium that was never really built up and enhanced over the years with the stadium being the catalyst?

I have serious doubts about the choice of location.

Given that you think state law is the main barrier to the development of a lively sports district, what are your serious doubts about this location in particular?

It seems ideal to me. The proximity to the interstates, TRAX, and FrontRunner makes it accessible with or without a car to most locals, and its location between the airport and downtown will be perfect for visiting fans. RMP already broke ground on the beginnings of a mixed-use neighborhood, so the vision and intent of the main property owner is clearly there. Without the Rio Grande Plan, what would be a better location?

The stacks are actually pretty cool, if you ask me. They will be gritty monuments of a bygone era of energy and they can be illuminated in creative ways at night. The rendering isn't great quality and I think the orientation/position/design of the stadium could be improved to maximize the views, but I think the idea itself is solid and keeps with the adaptive reuse trends of more recent MLB ballparks.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Given that you think state law is the main barrier to the development of a lively sports district, what are your serious doubts about this location in particular?

It seems ideal to me. The proximity to the interstates, TRAX, and FrontRunner makes it accessible with or without a car to most locals, and its location between the airport and downtown will be perfect for visiting fans. RMP already broke ground on the beginnings of a mixed-use neighborhood, so the vision and intent of the main property owner is clearly there. Without the Rio Grande Plan, what would be a better location?

The stacks are actually pretty cool, if you ask me. They will be gritty monuments of a bygone era of energy and they can be illuminated in creative ways at night. The rendering isn't great quality and I think the orientation/position/design of the stadium could be improved to maximize the views, but I think the idea itself is solid and keeps with the adaptive reuse trends of more recent MLB ballparks.

The whole area currently is not a place most people go unless you live or work there. I know they're trying to create a connection between the west side and downtown, so there needs to be some REALLY big thinking about what to do with this area. Yes, TRAX access is great but it's only from one direction, people won't be coming straight from the airport to the stadium. There needs to be a connection to the green line from someplace other than North Temple, or it's going to be a s-show for people trying to catch TRAX to games with only one line serving the stadium location. Has there been plans to build a connection maybe along Bangerter that could connect the west side of the valley to the green line without going through downtown first? San Diego has a FrontRunner twin, called the COASTER, and they have a special train that runs every home game outside of the normal schedule. My dad just took my son to a Padres game during spring break, they took the train down, hopped on the trolley and walked one block to the stadium. Easy. Would Utah run a special FrontRunner on every game day (even Sundays) to accommodate fans who want to take transit? What about doubling TRAX frequency on game days to handle the increased ridership?

I just feel this location is going to be "isolated" outside of games themselves or another stadium event. Will any restaurants or entertainment district draw enough people outside of event days to stay in business? The success of Petco Park in SD, for example, is the location of the stadium is so close to downtown that all the surrounding development is busy whether there's a game or not. They've built up the area around it with 40-story residential towers, so there's a buzz of activity and people all the time. Are they going to do that here, or is it just going to be commercial and dining and not adding the new residents to make this place not dead the other 280 days of the year.

Rangers built their previous park in the suburbs of Arlington, and after 22 years they started looking to build a new one which they again built in the same suburbs. There was a study released last year about the economic impact of Truist Park and it wasn't very glowing... Full report here: https://coles.kennesaw.edu/econopp/docs/Bradbury_Cobb_report_March2022.pdf

The key findings are:

• Sales tax revenue increased following the stadium’s opening; however, much of thespending associated with the stadium development appears to have come at the expenseof existing Cobb businesses; thus, net gains to commercial activity have been small.
• Cobb property value growth, near the stadium and countywide, has been typical forthe Atlanta region, which does not reflect net positive economic or social benefits fromthe stadium, nor has the stadium’s presence expanded the County’s budget throughincreased property tax assessments.
• Stadium-induced tax revenue has fallen well short of covering Cobb’s public investmentin the stadium, costing taxpayers nearly$15 million per year to service stadium debtand fund operations, which translates to approximately$50 per Cobb household

That's what I worry about with a location far removed from where additional investment would be interested in being spent. I know there's construction of mid-rise apartments in the area, but is this a sought-after area for commercial investment as well? How much additional investment outside of the stadium and any direct construction by the stadium developers will come in, or is it likely to just stop there?

[Schmoe]

Originally Posted by Schmoe

I believe the next crane jump is after the core wall reaches level 30 (it's at 26 now). My guess is this will be sometime mid-May. This is off the top of my head without checking the schedule.

Checked the schedule, and it looks like the crane jump is scheduled for May 9-12.

[meman]

Thanks Schmoe for your prompt info!!!!!

[ThePriceWentUp]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

The whole area currently is not a place most people go unless you live or work there. I know they're trying to create a connection between the west side and downtown, so there needs to be some REALLY big thinking about what to do with this area. Yes, TRAX access is great but it's only from one direction, people won't be coming straight from the airport to the stadium. There needs to be a connection to the green line from someplace other than North Temple, or it's going to be a s-show for people trying to catch TRAX to games with only one line serving the stadium location.
I just feel this location is going to be "isolated" outside of games themselves or another stadium event. Will any restaurants or entertainment district draw enough people outside of event days to stay in business? The success of Petco Park in SD, for example, is the location of the stadium is so close to downtown that all the surrounding development is busy whether there's a game or not. They've built up the area around it with 40-story residential towers, so there's a buzz of activity and people all the time. Are they going to do that here, or is it just going to be commercial and dining and not adding the new residents to make this place not dead the other 280 days of the year.

While I agree the transit situation might prove to be a shit show I'm definitely not worried about future activation in that area. Take a look at the Fairpark Master Plan which is scheduled to be implemented and completed in 15 years.

[Comrade]

The big thing going for this ballpark is that the Power District is developing along side it (technically, even starting before it). That is something we didn't see with the Delta Center or even Franklin Covey Field when it was built. Those were sports sites dropped into an area with no commitment to actually develop around it. I posted back in 2007(!) how the promises of the ballpark creating a southern anchor to downtown were not realized.

But this isn't the case with this ballpark. They're already pushing development there, which will have a sizable impact on the area even if Salt Lake doesn't land a MLB team anytime soon.