Do you agree with the Census Bureau's region classifications?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yes, while in Canada you have more than 1000 miles of Canadian Shield separating Southern Ontario (Great Lakes) and the Prairies (Great Plains). One is clearly East and one is clearly West. Windsor and Winnipeg both share "midwestern" characteristics , but they're completely different regions in the Canadian context. There's no "I states" linking them, no Chicago-type meeting point.

What about Thunder Bay?

I think a difference is that in the US, the farming region is continuous. But in Canada, the shield separates two farming regions (southern Ontario, the Prairies) with a resource extraction based region, which is not a good fit for a bridging or transitional zone.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

What about Thunder Bay?

Too small, too isolated.

I think a difference is that in the US, the farming region is continuous. But in Canada, the shield separates two farming regions (southern Ontario, the Prairies) with a resource extraction based region, which is not a good fit for a bridging or transitional zone.

Exactly.

[Docere]

University of Michigan handbook (1898):

"The society [Delta Tau Delta] is remarkable for the large number of its men living in the middle west; the four states of Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Illinois being credited with nearly 2000."

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Docere

University of Michigan handbook (1898):

"The society [Delta Tau Delta] is remarkable for the large number of its men living in the middle west; the four states of Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Illinois being credited with nearly 2000."

Take note of which states are not listed, which was my earlier point. Michigan and Ohio are not in the same region as Kansas and Nebraska. The grouping of them together seems to be a clumsy accident. Also, the University of Michigan's fight song, also written in 1898, calls the school the "champions of the West". The Big 10 Conference was originally named the Western Conference.

What is now the eastern Midwest has taken on many identities at over a very short period of time, and I'm not so much contesting that Midwest is an inaccurate label as I am that the grouping is too broad.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Take note of which states are not listed, which was my earlier point. Michigan and Ohio are not in the same region as Kansas and Nebraska. The grouping of them together seems to be a clumsy accident. Also, the University of Michigan's fight song, also written in 1898, calls the school the "champions of the West". The Big 10 Conference was originally named the Western Conference.

What is now the eastern Midwest has taken on many identities at over a very short period of time, and I'm not so much contesting that Midwest is an inaccurate label as I am that the grouping is too broad.

It is very broad. Hence the East North Central (Great Lakes/industrial heartland-centric) and West North Central (farm belt-centric) subregions.

Sometimes the Eastern US (though probably less true than in the past) means east of the Mississippi River states.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Docere

It is very broad. Hence the East North Central (Great Lakes/industrial heartland-centric) and West North Central (farm belt-centric) subregions.

Sometimes the Eastern US (though probably less true than in the past) means east of the Mississippi River states.

I think that's what most people would agree to be the eastern US. The eastern US is different from the East Coast of the US. The latter generally refers to the Northeast Corridor while the former refers to everything east of the Mississippi.

[Docere]

There were definitely things that link the eastern midwest and the Northeast. A history of largely Catholic immigration from southern and eastern Europe in the cities. The Great Migration. The Rust belt.

[Capsicum]

On the Canadian side, is there a sharp difference in settlement demographics between southern Ontario and the prairies that northern/northwestern Ontario interrupts?

I still see some continuity in demographics crossing Ontario and the Prairies looking at stats (e.g. "old stock Canadians", Scottish, Irish, German, some Francophones ancestry here and there). There is also an aboriginal % that is similar between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. But maybe there are some continental European ancestries more common in southwestern Ontario (e.g. Italian) that start to become less common out west.

[Docere]

Thunder Bay interestingly has similar numbers for Italians and Ukrainians, reflecting its "middling" status I suppose (the number of Finns is also similar - a group that really only had large numbers around Lake Superior).

You can kinda say Ontario is a bit Michigan-like (Great Lakes-centric, similar industrial and agricultural mixes), and the Prairies North Dakota-like (Great Plains wheat belt), separated by a large no man's land.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I can see how Chicago is tied to both the eastern and western Midwest, but I don't think Chicago's function is so much of a hub of a big region so much as a transition point between two distinct regions. .

Careful, your metro Detroit is showing

It would be nearly impossible to live in Chicagoland and not see it as the de facto capital city hub of the Midwest (both halves).

[Docere]

Population density map of US/Canada:

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/7052/united-states-population-density

[Docere]

You can definitely see the manufacturing belt/farm belt split in the 1930 census.

East North Central

Agriculture 14.3%
Manufacturing and mechanical industries 35.7%

West North Central

Agriculture 33.6%
Manufacturing and mechanical industries 19.8%

[ChiSoxRox]

As someone originally from Iowa, the Midwest label makes perfect sense.

Columbus to Lincoln is the world's largest cornfield, and the Midwest is those states that contain it.

[Docere]

Top 10 states for corn production (bushels):

Iowa 2.5 billion
Illinois 2.3 billion
Nebraska 1.6 billion
Minnesota 1.4 billion
Indiana 964.5 million
South Dakota 656.3 million
Kansas 592.3 million
Ohio 580.3 million
Wisconsin 536.9 million
Missouri 492.8 million

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/corn-production-by-state

[Docere]

Interestingly like the US Twin Cities, Thunder Bay is made up of two former twin cities, Fort William and Port Arthur. Port Arthur is the older more "eastern" twin, while Fort William is more "western."

The differences pretty much end there though.

NW Ontario (pop. 232,000) is about as close you get to "neither east or west" in Canada. NE Ontario borders Quebec and has a very sizeable Franco-Ontarian community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_Ontario

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Careful, your metro Detroit is showing

It would be nearly impossible to live in Chicagoland and not see it as the de facto capital city hub of the Midwest (both halves).

Yeah, I interpret capital or hub to mean something different. I also don't think that way about NYC's relationship with the northeast corridor, and NYC's size is way more imposing over its regional neighbors. Chicago and NYC are both regional magnets, but in both situations the existence of the other cities doesn't really depend on the existence of the biggest one. That's what a hub means to me.

[BillM]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I'm not really sure what a Mid-Atlantic "identity" really is.

I think it's kinda like... you have New England, then you have NYC, and then you have the Mid-Atlantic. Philly, southern NJ, Baltimore/MD, Delaware, DC.

I see it a similar way.
NYC is like a buffer between the Mid-Atlantic and New England.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Chicago and NYC are both regional magnets, but in both situations the existence of the other cities doesn't really depend on the existence of the biggest one. That's what a hub means to me.

To me, "hub" just means the center of a region, and since Chicago is by far the largest and most important city near the middle of the great cornbelt stretching for 800 miles from Ohio to Nebraska that is the defining feature of "the Midwest" in the minds of outsiders, it absolutely is the hub of the region IMO.

People in Michigan don't think they share a region with Nebraska.

People in Nebraska don't think they share a region with Michigan

Chicagoans are just like "what?".

[lio45]

My answer to the thread topic: YES, if tasked with dividing the US in four, not three, nor five, I'd come up with regions similar to the Census Bureau's.

(basically what mhays said)

To elaborate a bit on variants of the question...

If I were asked to divide the US in two... I'd go with "Old" (Northeast and Midwest) and "New" (Sunbelt and West). (The other option would be East of the Mississippi vs West of the Mississippi; I prefer my choice.)

If I were asked to divide the US in three... I'd go with "North", "South", and "West". (I basically took my "New" of the category above, and split it in two.)

If I were asked to divide the US in four... I'd take the three above, and split "North" into Northeast and Midwest. Which is the four Census Bureau divisions, too.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Docere

They also have divisions of these regions:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK569304/figure/appii.fig1/

Could they at least try with some of these names
"East south Central rgion" Bruh