The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Woho

Regarding the idea of a large grocery store in Brunswick Square, I would imagine the logistics of supplying that location with products would be a very difficult. The only road access they would have is either King St. or Germaine St. Large grocery stores need enough space for loading bays where two or more transport trucks can unload at a time. From my perspective, that would be the biggest challenge in opening a big box store of any kind in Brunswick Square.

There is a large loading dock off of chipman hill into B Square

[cdnguys]

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[cdnguys]

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[sailor734]

Listening to the new museum being discussed on CBC Information Morning by the board chair and the architect . I'm a little concerned about how frequently they referred to parking in the discussion about location. I'd hate to see it in an isolated location surrounded by asphalt like some kind of 70's mall.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Listening to the new museum being discussed on CBC Information Morning by the board chair and the architect . I'm a little concerned about how frequently they referred to parking in the discussion about location. I'd hate to see it in an isolated location surrounded by asphalt like some kind of 70's mall.

I agree and parking is certainly a consideration but I am less concerned with this based on the portfolio of the architect and their recent statements about location (uptown, views of the harbour etc). Their work is stunning.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I agree and parking is certainly a consideration but I am less concerned with this based on the portfolio of the architect and their recent statements about location (uptown, views of the harbour etc). Their work is stunning.

Agreed as to how impressive their portfolio is. Hopefully the site will have sweeping ocean views if not actually waterfront. I'm still hopeful about an uptown location. It would be a shame if this once in a generation opportunity was just another example of 1960's urban sprawl. I still think a Long Wharf or sugar refinery site location with the right design could have a Sydney Opera House type impact on Saint John's landscape.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Listening to the new museum being discussed on CBC Information Morning by the board chair and the architect . I'm a little concerned about how frequently they referred to parking in the discussion about location. I'd hate to see it in an isolated location surrounded by asphalt like some kind of 70's mall.

A museum is a provincial resource, and, would hopefully attract tourist traffic in the summertime too. As such, parking is most definitely a serious consideration, but this doesn't necessarily mean oceans of surface parking surrounding the building. Parking could be underground, or in an adjacent structure.

Also, there are places on the uptown peninsula where a large lot could be accommodated (like the old sugar refinery site or Long Wharf). In some ways it would be nice if the new museum could be sited somewhere like that rather than shoehorned into a small lot in the absolute heart of uptown (around King Street).

If they are hiring a world class architecture firm, we should allow them the license to make their artistic inspiration fly. This would entail an open site, where the architecture could be put on full display.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A museum is a provincial resource, and, would hopefully attract tourist traffic in the summertime too. As such, parking is most definitely a serious consideration, but this doesn't necessarily mean oceans of surface parking surrounding the building. Parking could be underground, or in an adjacent structure.

Also, there are places on the uptown peninsula where a large lot could be accommodated (like the old sugar refinery site or Long Wharf). In some ways it would be nice if the new museum could be sited somewhere like that rather than shoehorned into a small lot in the absolute heart of uptown (around King Street).

If they are hiring a world class architecture firm, we should allow them the license to make their artistic inspiration fly. This would entail an open site, where the architecture could be put on full display.

I feel like this gets brought up a lot, but they are not looking Uptown for the museum, it will either be at an expanded version of the existing site, or a second nearby site that will be waterfront but not Uptown.

I agree with the sentiment that the architecture firm is very good, and from what I've heard actually under-bid to ensure they got the contract because they wanted the opportunity so much. On the issue of parking that's less of an issue than proper loading bays and bus parking, because as a provincial institution they need the ability to have students and tourists bussed in from other areas, and the loading bay is necessary to accommodate visiting exhibitions, etc., which is not something that the museum has ever been able to properly service because of contrasts on Douglas Ave and at Market Square.

The museum will be a huge resource for the province for at least 50 years, so we deserve the best on this.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I feel like this gets brought up a lot, but they are not looking Uptown for the museum, it will either be at an expanded version of the existing site, or a second nearby site that will be waterfront but not Uptown.

I agree with the sentiment that the architecture firm is very good, and from what I've heard actually under-bid to ensure they got the contract because they wanted the opportunity so much. On the issue of parking that's less of an issue than proper loading bays and bus parking, because as a provincial institution they need the ability to have students and tourists bussed in from other areas, and the loading bay is necessary to accommodate visiting exhibitions, etc., which is not something that the museum has ever been able to properly service because of contrasts on Douglas Ave and at Market Square.

The museum will be a huge resource for the province for at least 50 years, so we deserve the best on this.

That's disappointing to hear. I wonder why they have discounted a more central location? Although, I've lived in NB (Saint John) all my life so it won't come as a huge surprise if this project is screwed up from the get go.

I understand about the for loading/unloading facilities for both buses and cargo but it seems to me that most of the world's great museums are located in downtown urban cores and they somehow seem to manage so......???

I can't think of a second site that is both nearby, waterfront and not uptown. Surely to God not Fallsview Park with that stunning view of the pulp mill?

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Agreed as to how impressive their portfolio is. Hopefully the site will have sweeping ocean views if not actually waterfront. I'm still hopeful about an uptown location. It would be a shame if this once in a generation opportunity was just another example of 1960's urban sprawl. I still think a Long Wharf or sugar refinery site location with the right design could have a Sydney Opera House type impact on Saint John's landscape.

100% agree. I still understand that the sugar refinery site is being looked at by Cooke and I don't know about Long Wharf....Based on some of the designs that the chosen architect has previously done I agree with the opera house analogy.

[Sabien]

Originally Posted by sailor734

That's disappointing to hear. I wonder why they have discounted a more central location? Although, I've lived in NB (Saint John) all my life so it won't come as a huge surprise if this project is screwed up from the get go.

I understand about the for loading/unloading facilities for both buses and cargo but it seems to me that most of the world's great museums are located in downtown urban cores and they somehow seem to manage so......???

I can't think of a second site that is both nearby, waterfront and not uptown. Surely to God not Fallsview Park with that stunning view of the pulp mill?

I think it might depend on what you consider uptown - is long wharf or the old sugar refinery site considered "uptown". Kind of, but not really, maybe/maybe not.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

I was looking at the DP world port schedule and it shows a new container line Hapag Lloyd AL5 which runs from Europe to the West Coast. This line currently stops in Halifax so I am not sure if this is a line moving from Halifax to Saint John or just a additional stop. Nonetheless this is exciting for the Port.

[ColSJ]

Starting April 27th Hapag-Lloyd will begin what looks to be a weekly service as part of their Atlantic Loop 5 line. This line will be run under NYK ships and connect Saint John to some of the largest ports in the western hemisphere including Los Angeles. Currently, Halifax is the recipient of this line so it looks like Saint John has snagged up more business from them.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

An NYK container ship is calling on the port April 27th. This would be new business. Not sure if this is a trial run, new regular customer or one off due to port congestion. Regardless great for the port.

Update: NYK is owned by ONE Shipping. This ship is on a route that goes from Vancouver - Oakland - Los Angeles - Panama - Colombia - Dominican Republic - Halifax - Southampton, UK. So this may be a pick up from Ceres in Halifax, although it’s still showing on Port of Halifax sched

There atre now two more NYK ships scheduled for April 30 and May 10. All the NYK ships are on a west coast circuit. So now there are total 3 new visits. All three ships are 4888 TEU. They are the largest in physical size(length) and TEU capacity currently scheduled. The NYK ships are Demeter, Romulus, and Constellation.

(Looks like everybody caught this at the same time. Good!)

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

I was looking at the DP world port schedule and it shows a new container line Hapag Lloyd AL5 which runs from Europe to the West Coast. This line currently stops in Halifax so I am not sure if this is a line moving from Halifax to Saint John or just a additional stop. Nonetheless this is exciting for the Port.

Looking at the schedule it appears to be a Eastbound only service for now. Hopefully things change and it becomes a Westbound stop also

[adamuptownsj]

Sugar refinery site is mostly landfill and ancient teak posts. I don't believe it is suitable for much more than landscaping without insane costs. Cooke will likely occupy the usable brownfield area closer to Sydney and Vulcan.

Fallsview is, I hope, unlikely. It's a terrible location. Saint John isn't even interested in cleaning up the abandoned corner store and truck at the corner of Fallsview and Douglas.

The current site at the top of Bentley is likely being repaired and retained for research and storage.

Long Wharf would be cool, but it's 700,000 square feet... literally a neighbourhood. This would be a waste.

So where else has ocean views, truck/bus access, and space? Current Prince Charles School site? Either of the two blocks between Queen, Carmarthen, St. James, and Pitt? Victor Train's block (Ross/Germain/St. James/Charlotte)? The Landmark site on the other side of TCB?

I'm personally partial to the Landmark location. Extend Carmarthen and Vulcan until they meet and soak up some under-used DoD land. Parking could all be out of the way just north of the potash silo, with the building roughly where the Landmark was planned on the Sydney side of the site. This would check a lot of boxes.

[Franco401]

We should really add a [Saint John] Port Developments thread to free up space in this one.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

I was looking at the DP world port schedule and it shows a new container line Hapag Lloyd AL5 which runs from Europe to the West Coast. This line currently stops in Halifax so I am not sure if this is a line moving from Halifax to Saint John or just a additional stop. Nonetheless this is exciting for the Port.

NYC Demeter is still scheduled to go to Halifax after a stop in Saint John. Given the ship came from western Canada and USA, I can only reasonably conclude they are picking up containers that originated in central North America. In addition, if they aren’t railing it to Halifax on CN, it must be a testament to the business case CP puts forward to getting freight to the east coast more cost effective. I truly believe at the very least SJ stymied container growth in Halifax, if not taken some business away from them. Do I feel bad? Nope lol. Since the government designated Halifax the regional centre of Atlantic Canada and poured themselves of billions of dollars into the region, I’m happy to take some business away

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

That's disappointing to hear. I wonder why they have discounted a more central location? Although, I've lived in NB (Saint John) all my life so it won't come as a huge surprise if this project is screwed up from the get go.

I understand about the for loading/unloading facilities for both buses and cargo but it seems to me that most of the world's great museums are located in downtown urban cores and they somehow seem to manage so......???

I can't think of a second site that is both nearby, waterfront and not uptown. Surely to God not Fallsview Park with that stunning view of the pulp mill?

Fallsview is a looooot bigger than just the part that faces the mill, that whole part of the city between Reversing Falls and Millidgeville is criminally underestimated by the residents of Saint John. Marble Cove, the Narrows, Milford, etc. are all incredible scenic areas with massive potential and possibly the best sunsets in the region - admittedly challenging topography too, but stunning nonetheless.

Don’t let the reputation and a few small problems with old building stock distract from a piece of of the city that is minutes from the city centre, well-serviced, and still has waterfront development potential. A lot of cities would kill to have that in their back pocket.

[JakeNB]

I am resigned to the apparent fact that the Museum board will make the same mistake that was made with the siting of the hospital and UNBSJ and we will miss a generational opportunity to develop our uptown core. Sydney Opera house is not in the suburbs. Meanwhile we will be left with undeveloped Fundy Quay for 10+ years.