Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

As this is the DTES thread, it's pretty safe to say that any walk-ups or rooming houses that are redeveloped there come with replacement of the units that are lost with more, better quality ones that are subsidized and protected in future.

That's also true for any developments associated with most of the City of Vancouver or Burnaby rental projects, where tenant protection has been introduced that is far better than in the past.

As there aren't many vacant sites sitting undeveloped, it's inevitable that older lower density housing gets replaced. What's your preferred solution to adding the additional homes we need?

Are you saying people homeless in the DTES haven’t been turfed out of their rentals elsewhere in the city over the last ten years? Broadway Plan protections haven’t been tested yet and it remains to be seen how effective they will be.

Solutions aren’t easy but it would have been a start not to approve so many luxury condos for investors in the downtown core over the last 10-15 years. Which drive up land prices to insane levels.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by lio45

Genuine question: am I the only one whose sense of logic and rationality is rubbed the wrong way by the fact the point where streets (such as Hastings) change from "West" to "East" is NOT the street called Main Street?!?!?

It was answered in the post above, but still, it's easy to think of Ontario St., symbolically, as in the province as well, as the great divide. It also seems to divide the city in terms of perception, the east being generally less desirable.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Are you saying people homeless in the DTES haven’t been turfed out of their rentals elsewhere in the city over the last ten years? Broadway Plan protections haven’t been tested yet and it remains to be seen how effective they will be.

Solutions aren’t easy but it would have been a start not to approve so many luxury condos for investors in the downtown core over the last 10-15 years. Which drive up land prices to insane levels.

I'd be surprised if many people homeless in the DTES have been turfed out of rentals elsewhere in the city over the past ten years. At least, not without some extenuating circumstance like a failure to pay the rent, or breach of tenancy rules. Not many older rentals have been redeveloped in the rest of the city. Most redeveloped rentals have been in the DTES, where older SROs have been replaced with non-market units. There have been a few buildings replaced in the West End, but they've all been replaced with more social housing units than previous rental units, and there's always been a tenant relocation plan required before the project can proceed.

Not building luxury condos in the downtown core doesn't add any units to meet the demand for condos. If basic economics apply, more demand and inadequate supply would mean higher prices in existing buildings.

Land prices have been rising across the entire region because people want to move here and we haven't been able to build enough to meet that demand, despite building more than ever.

I think ridiculously low interest rates has had much more impact on house or apartment prices than a few hundred people buying expensive condos. In the past few years in the West End many developers are switching from condo to rental projects. That's because demand for condos has gone down, as interest rates have risen, and investment purchasing has fallen off, Overall demand for housing hasn't fallen, so rents have gone up. Land cost doesn't play a part in that change one way or another. And none of that has much impact on the DTES, (unless the zoning was changed to allow condos again).

[Migrant_Coconut]

AFAIK most of the demovictions were Corrigan's council in Burnaby. I distinctly remember hearing SSP complaining - very often - about how Vision only ever spot-zoned vacant lots or commercial/industrial properties (e.g. Marine Gateway)... and by the time they were about to leave and Stewart's council took over, developing the DTES was a political red flag.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Are you saying people homeless in the DTES haven’t been turfed out of their rentals elsewhere in the city over the last ten years? Broadway Plan protections haven’t been tested yet and it remains to be seen how effective they will be.

Solutions aren’t easy but it would have been a start not to approve so many luxury condos for investors in the downtown core over the last 10-15 years. Which drive up land prices to insane levels.

Even if that is true, it still highlights the fact that municipal and provincial governments fail to secure modern mass-produced affordable housing for the less well-off. Those run down walk ups may be affordable, but are very old, low-quality and low density housing taking up good lots near major transit routes that does not meet modern standards. I bet they cost lots for landlords to fix and certainly seismic and fire hazards. No one is talking about these since these walk ups are considered "affordable housing". Zoning restrictions and pure greed for tax money are two of the biggest factors why we can't put in new affordable housing. Who else to blame? Answer: Single family home owners who hate their neighbourhoods drastically rezoned.

[Vin]

Very glad the city is doing this daily for the real residents & business owners of DTES....

• Video Link

Still this is the kind of money that should be spent on other things in this city, such as fixing the Stanley Park mini railway for the kids and improving the brick paving of Water street in Gastown. We are essentially being held hostage by lawlessness.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

No, he was right - there just aren't enough beds for the current number of homeless. That list of shelters is where all the temporarily housed are already living. The shelters are almost full - there weren't enough beds available in the city for the number of people who had been living in tents along Hastings, that were displaced. (It seems like about 100, but I'm pretty certain they didn't do an accurate count, they just cleared the street). There won't be enough tonight either, or even when the new temporary Main Street building is finished - although it'll be more than we have now. Shelters all have a limit on the number of people they can house, based on the fire officer's number that can safely be accommodated. When they're full, they turn people away.

"We don't have enough spaces. That's why people are sleeping on the street," said Sarah Goldvine, B.C. Housing's vice president of communications and public affairs.

The organization funds more than 4,000 permanent and temporary shelter spaces across the province, with an occupancy rate of 91 per cent. It is investing hundreds of millions of dollars in affordable housing projects, but the supply is not keeping up with demand."

As usual, you are wrong...

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/h...stside-6816406

Premier David Eby described the sidewalk evictions as “a very sad situation an a sad day” but insisted that there is enough shelter space available, with more than 300 housing units coming online by June

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Those who want chaos to rule will keep saying there isn't enough shelters.

[djmk]

drove down Hastings last night and saw that the tents are back.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

As usual, you are wrong...

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/h...stside-6816406"Premier David Eby described the sidewalk evictions as “a very sad situation an a sad day” but insisted that there is enough shelter space available, with more than 300 housing units coming online by June"

Those who want chaos to rule will keep saying there isn't enough shelters.

I don't know anybody who wants chaos to rule. That's just you bullshitting again. My personal criticism is that the sweep to remove the homeless happened before there were alternate spaces available. I've showed you the City Manager admitting that there weren't enough shelter beds for everyone (and there are many other sources supporting it), and you keep desperately trawling around to find someone, anyone, to contradict it.

You now cite Vancouver is Awesome's article from four days ago stating that David Eby insisted there was enough shelter space. The problem with that is that he didn't say that. The article has presumably been edited subsequently, because now it reads “Emergency shelters are not a response to the crisis we’re seeing here. I’d say generally this is a very sad situation and a sad day. But ultimately, we are moving towards a place where people are going to get to move into high quality, permanent housing,” Eby told reporters".

See the difference? As I noted before, there might be enough housing by June, but there isn't now.

So again, you're wrong. There are now people sleeping under tarps on the sidewalk along Hastings, living out of the wheely bin the city gave out with 'Personal Belongings' stickers on them. Others have moved into CRAB Park. That doesn't seem much better than the tents that were on the street before - except fires are less likely, which was the point of the exercise.

[Zepfancouver]

The daily Hastings Street tent removal continues this morning, which is a good thing.
I have no solutions, I'm just thrilled for the tax paying residence and business owners in that neighborhood.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

The daily Hastings Street tent removal continues this morning, which is a good thing.
I have no solutions, I'm just thrilled for the tax paying residence and business owners in that neighborhood.

Indeed. If these people know that the City is Indeed not rum by clowns anymore and actually serious about bringing E Hastings here back to order, they will eventually leave and not camp here anymore.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The City already tried clearing out the last tent city a year ago; a new one moved back in just a few months later; this year's cleanup had volunteers handing out free tents literally on the same day.

It doesn't matter who's running Vancouver - getting the problem out of sight doesn't make it go away. Shelters might, which is why the previous council approved so many.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The City already tried clearing out the last tent city a year ago; a new one moved back in just a few months later; this year's cleanup had volunteers handing out free tents literally on the same day.

It doesn't matter who's running Vancouver - getting the problem out of sight doesn't make it go away. Shelters might, which is why the previous council approved so many.

If they continue to sweep daily, sooner or later the tents will stop showing up. Some people learn slower than others.

[Lexus]

https://youtu.be/apPi_669L8I

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by Lexus

https://youtu.be/apPi_669L8I

You know it Debbie
Day 5 of a 'Hastings Street tent removal' is a day count I don't mind if it runs into the thousands.
It might be the same cost or lower cost than the daily clean up and factor cost of a street tent city.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

If they continue to sweep daily, sooner or later the tents will stop showing up. Some people learn slower than others.

Gee, maybe they should try that approach with crime and sentencing.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

If they continue to sweep daily, sooner or later the tents will stop showing up. Some people learn slower than others.

And since all the shelters are full, that leads to them camping somewhere else, which ABC then also has to clean up and sweep. That'll turn into a sunk cost very fast without more shelter space.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And since all the shelters are full, that leads to them camping somewhere else, which ABC then also has to clean up and sweep. That'll turn into a sunk cost very fast without more shelter space.

You can camp overnight at a park (way better than a Hastings St sidewalk) and pack up in the morning. This is what the courts ruled.

The lower your ability to live within the laws of a civil society, the less care I have for what happens to you.

[Zepfancouver]

Live Day 6

• Video Link

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The City already tried clearing out the last tent city a year ago; a new one moved back in just a few months later; this year's cleanup had volunteers handing out free tents literally on the same day.

It doesn't matter who's running Vancouver - getting the problem out of sight doesn't make it go away. Shelters might, which is why the previous council approved so many.

I would love them keep handing out free tents and see how long they can last with their "unlimited resources". It is safe to say that this cleanup has the backing of most people in the City. Go ABC, and let's keep it up!