The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

Could this potentially be the long awaited phase 2 of Harbourfront Condos on Water? Perhaps the rumored Brunswick Square conversion?

I don't believe that there will be any further development or "Phase 2" of the 3 Sisters condo development. I think based on the 48m figure it would be something much more significant - Maybe Brunswick Sq but even that figure seems high to me. I also thought maybe a Cooke HQ but the residential /retail component would lead me to think not.

[adamuptownsj]

I just learned the Lian St extension project in Fredericton is on JDI land. It's pretty wild they are unwilling to part with or develop their extensive Uptown and East Side holdings. What are they waiting for? They probably paid pennies on the dollar for acquisition cost vs what they'd get now, over the decades. What's going on there?

I'm not reflexively anti-Irving but this 'sit on vacant lots and underused parking lots forever' strategy is perplexing, and wearing thin. This is the home of both Irving HQs, most of their industrial facilities, and their workforce. They need to find development partners for this land or develop it themselves. Via Kent, Atlas, Shamrock Truss, Wallboard, and the Ocean Capital group (OSCO, FCC, Marque), they could likely build cheaper than anyone else in the Maritimes.

IOL is less of an offender, but what are their Golden Ball plans? It would make superb condos or a hotel. Instead it sits- I think a skeleton crew is still there. I also believe IOL owns the 2-3 lots across Union on the Waterloo intersection.

And lastly, with most Irving employees using their garages now, Saint John has a surplus surface parking that is not being shopped around. I was up Paddock twice yesterday during and just after normal business hours and the large lot on the west side of the street, which is blocked on the Peters entrance and apparently leased to Rogers, was basically empty.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I don't believe that there will be any further development or "Phase 2" of the 3 Sisters condo development. I think based on the 48m figure it would be something much more significant - Maybe Brunswick Sq but even that figure seems high to me. I also thought maybe a Cooke HQ but the residential /retail component would lead me to think not.

Yup anything on the sites south (or north) of Harbourfront may share a wall with it... but probably won't be similar looking or have the same developer. They're small units that FEEL small. Low ceilings. Not worth replicating. Very hard sells until recently. But both sites are interesting.

Based on the 'Cooke at Tin Can Beach' theory, there could be a residential component on upper floors. Why not? Cooke doesn't have a uniquely giant in-office staff, and they don't seem like the type to build a suburban office park style HQ. Offsetting some operating expenses with 50-100 rental units 200m from bus transit on Broad, 300m from a new school, on a Harbour Passage spur, in the Primary Development Area, would be a good decision that the city would probably encourage.

Is the Brunswick Square rumor still self storage? The city should reject that immediately if so. I would rather see a vacant lot than a block of self storage on King.

On that note, have any permits been pulled for the French school conversion in Market Square?

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It's likely going to be Douglas Avenue, incorporating the existing archive building.

There is another site being considered still, either way it won't be Uptown, but it'll still be walking distance at least.

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

There is another site being considered still, either way it won't be Uptown, but it'll still be walking distance at least.

Either way, that is a shame. Look at what’s happening in Fredericton. Beaverbrook Gallery recently updated and new performing arts centre being planned in the downtown core. Most of the Museum board are not from Saint John and don’t give a damn about revitalizing our Uptown.

[cdnguys]

An NYK container ship is calling on the port April 27th. This would be new business. Not sure if this is a trial run, new regular customer or one off due to port congestion. Regardless great for the port.

Update: NYK is owned by ONE Shipping. This ship is on a route that goes from Vancouver - Oakland - Los Angeles - Panama - Colombia - Dominican Republic - Halifax - Southampton, UK. So this may be a pick up from Ceres in Halifax, although it’s still showing on Port of Halifax sched

[cdnguys]

..

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

An NYK container ship is calling on the port April 27th. This would be new business. Not sure if this is a trial run, new regular customer or one off due to port congestion. Regardless great for the port.

Update: NYK is owned by ONE Shipping. This ship is on a route that goes from Vancouver - Oakland - Los Angeles - Panama - Colombia - Dominican Republic - Halifax - Southampton, UK. So this may be a pick up from Ceres in Halifax, although it’s still showing on Port of Halifax sched

This call is listed on the DP World schedule for Saint John so safe to say this is valid. The reasoning behind the call? We can only speculate for now.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

This call is listed on the DP World schedule for Saint John so safe to say this is valid. The reasoning behind the call? We can only speculate for now.

There is one other update on the latest DPW call schedule that might be significant. There are three HAPAG LLOYD calls that haven't shown up before(or at least recently):
PUERTO LIMON EXPRESS on April 17
AMALTHEA on May 1
SANTA MARTA EXPRESS on May 8.
These 3 calls are listed as working the Caribbean Express Service (CES). The Hapag LLoyd CES designation is new to the DPW call schedule so I am assuming it's new service.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

There is one other update on the latest DPW call schedule that might be significant. There are three HAPAG LLOYD calls that haven't shown up before(or at least recently):
PUERTO LIMON EXPRESS on April 17
AMALTHEA on May 1
SANTA MARTA EXPRESS on May 8.
These 3 calls are listed as working the Caribbean Express Service (CES). The Hapag LLoyd CES designation is new to the DPW call schedule so I am assuming it's new service.

It is and it isn’t. This is a reconfiguration of a line Hapag-Lloyd ran solely between Saint John and Germany but they quietly stopped running it in the winter and are starting up again this month. Now this line will run to the Caribbean and I believe it’s added a few European ports.

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I'm not reflexively anti-Irving

That's your mistake. You should be.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

It is and it isn’t. This is a reconfiguration of a line Hapag-Lloyd ran solely between Saint John and Germany but they quietly stopped running it in the winter and are starting up again this month. Now this line will run to the Caribbean and I believe it’s added a few European ports.

Thanks. I thought there might be something like that but I couldn't find any scuttlebutt on it. Well, at least it's back.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Either way, that is a shame. Look at what’s happening in Fredericton. Beaverbrook Gallery recently updated and new performing arts centre being planned in the downtown core. Most of the Museum board are not from Saint John and don’t give a damn about revitalizing our Uptown.

From what I have heard - and it could all be just rumour - Douglas Ave will be the main museum with a large addition (something like what was proposed a number of years ago). I'm also hearing that an exhibition space will be Uptown - waterfront?

I like this approach as I really don't want to see the entire complex on the waterfront. I've said before that a museum is 90% "warehouse/storage" and this part really shouldn't be on prime real-estate. As long as they have exhibition spaces that are appropriate and dynamic I believe we can achieve what we have always wanted.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Yup anything on the sites south (or north) of Harbourfront may share a wall with it... but probably won't be similar looking or have the same developer. They're small units that FEEL small. Low ceilings. Not worth replicating. Very hard sells until recently. But both sites are interesting.

Based on the 'Cooke at Tin Can Beach' theory, there could be a residential component on upper floors. Why not? Cooke doesn't have a uniquely giant in-office staff, and they don't seem like the type to build a suburban office park style HQ. Offsetting some operating expenses with 50-100 rental units 200m from bus transit on Broad, 300m from a new school, on a Harbour Passage spur, in the Primary Development Area, would be a good decision that the city would probably encourage.

Is the Brunswick Square rumor still self storage? The city should reject that immediately if so. I would rather see a vacant lot than a block of self storage on King.

On that note, have any permits been pulled for the French school conversion in Market Square?

I hadn't considered a residential component for a Cooke HQ....that would be something!

I don't know if permits for the French school are in place but I do know that they are moving ahead with the plan to have the first students by this fall and a satff of @40 in 2023/24 and @100 for the 2024 school year - I see the signage is up in the old museum space so I would suspect Hardeman either has begun work or will soon.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I just learned the Lian St extension project in Fredericton is on JDI land. It's pretty wild they are unwilling to part with or develop their extensive Uptown and East Side holdings. What are they waiting for? They probably paid pennies on the dollar for acquisition cost vs what they'd get now, over the decades. What's going on there?

I'm not reflexively anti-Irving but this 'sit on vacant lots and underused parking lots forever' strategy is perplexing, and wearing thin. This is the home of both Irving HQs, most of their industrial facilities, and their workforce. They need to find development partners for this land or develop it themselves. Via Kent, Atlas, Shamrock Truss, Wallboard, and the Ocean Capital group (OSCO, FCC, Marque), they could likely build cheaper than anyone else in the Maritimes.

IOL is less of an offender, but what are their Golden Ball plans? It would make superb condos or a hotel. Instead it sits- I think a skeleton crew is still there. I also believe IOL owns the 2-3 lots across Union on the Waterloo intersection.

And lastly, with most Irving employees using their garages now, Saint John has a surplus surface parking that is not being shopped around. I was up Paddock twice yesterday during and just after normal business hours and the large lot on the west side of the street, which is blocked on the Peters entrance and apparently leased to Rogers, was basically empty.

The Golden Ball building has been brought back into the fold. It houses their lab that is working on developing renewable resources. Their new uptown HQ is overfilled with employees and they actually now rent pace from JDI on Bayside Dr. Despite layoffs in 2020, they have been quietly growing and now exceed what they used to have. Re: Cooke need for possible new building, they are now spread out in 3 locations in Saint John.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I hadn't considered a residential component for a Cooke HQ....that would be something!

I don't know if permits for the French school are in place but I do know that they are moving ahead with the plan to have the first students by this fall and a satff of @40 in 2023/24 and @100 for the 2024 school year - I see the signage is up in the old museum space so I would suspect Hardeman either has begun work or will soon.

What if Cooke took over the top of King for a mixed residential/corporate HQ!?

We can dream, haha.

[gtsoc]

I have heard a rumbling that a National grocery store chain has been sniffing around at putting a grocery store in Brunswick Square.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

The Golden Ball building has been brought back into the fold. It houses their lab that is working on developing renewable resources. Their new uptown HQ is overfilled with employees and they actually now rent pace from JDI on Bayside Dr. Despite layoffs in 2020, they have been quietly growing and now exceed what they used to have. Re: Cooke need for possible new building, they are now spread out in 3 locations in Saint John.

Good to see the Golden Ball is in use. I assume Cooke would want to keep the old synagogue- and can get out of its Brunswick Square lease if and when the HQ is built. What about 40 Wellington? IIRC they spend a lot on it when they bought it back in 2016.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

I have heard a rumbling that a National grocery store chain has been sniffing around at putting a grocery store in Brunswick Square.

There are rumours that the old Cabelas building in Moncton has been purchased by a central Canadian investor for a new grocery store too, perhaps a new to market chain.

Hmmmmmm...........

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

I have heard a rumbling that a National grocery store chain has been sniffing around at putting a grocery store in Brunswick Square.

This would be a pretty significant move for uptown. On one hand to fulfill the need for a grocery store, and second to resolve the issue that has become Brunswick square.

The pedway system and all the amenities attached are such a huge advantage to the city in our climate, this should be maximized.