Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

From what I've read no. I think it was offered in the past and most refused?

CBC are reporting "Later, on Wednesday night, Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim said eight encampment residents who have asked for shelter have been accommodated, and additional spaces are being held for others who have left the encampment."

...

"Poirer expects people who have their homes removed today will return, just like he says happened in August after Fry issued her order. City staff also took down structures then, forcing dozens of people to move."

"Go away a day or two and come right back — that's what we did last time," he said.

And at the City Hall press conference this morning Frances Bula tweeted this "Count on people on street and whether there is shelter space available?
Mochrie: It's likely we would not have sufficient shelter spaces for everybody but many people have declined shelter spots for months. Odds of 100 shelter spaces available today, no."

So it's purely an exercise in moving tents off Hastings. Most of the people seem to have moved into the alleys or other streets nearby (although the City also moved onto Main Street too).

[thembones]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

From what I've read no. I think it was offered in the past and most refused?

i don't know what the situation is now, but i had a friend who was a manager at a hostel that was converted to housing during the pandemic. they were way way below max capacity because people did not follow the rules. destroying or stealing property, doing drugs inside, assaulting others, and not checking in at least once a day would get people booted. even if housing was available for everyone, a lot of them literally cannot be housed and function as a part of our society.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

From what I've read no. I think it was offered in the past and most refused?

Yes the majority voluntary left before yesterday and accepted offered spots.

There are still some spots open, apparently. I'm not sure if it's enough for 100% of the tents cleared.

[Changing City]

Another closure of E Hastings this morning. Meanwhile Seattle looks like it has a similar story.

[LeftCoaster]

From reddit. https://i.redd.it/420xxka5g4sa1.jpg

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

From reddit. https://i.redd.it/420xxka5g4sa1.jpg

True, although I do think there is value in breaking up something that becomes entrenched in one area, worsening and growing in danger over time. Ultimately, we need enough housing space for those who want it, but we will always have a subset of that population who are unhousable due to their own behavioural issues.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

From reddit. https://i.redd.it/420xxka5g4sa1.jpg

It seems to me that encampments are an inescapable reality; There are some people that either by choice or by circumstance simply can't be removed from the street without continuous intervention. Even the communist police state of the Soviet Union where everyone was guaranteed a house and homelessness was punishable by imprisonment had homelessness.

However, I don't think tent cities are inescapable. For whatever reason we've decided to concentrate almost all of the Lower Mainland's homeless population into a dozen or so blocks in the DTES (either by pragmatism, NIMBYism, or altruism; pick your side), but it doesn't have to be that way. I remember reading some interesting statistics which showed that the Lower Mainland doesn't actually have a significantly higher homeless population than any other North American city, it's just Vancouver proper and the DTES that does because they've all been concentrated there. Head to any other town centre in the Lower Mainland (or even any medium+ density part of Vancouver) and you'd have to go out of your way to find a single homeless person. In my experience you won't ever see a homeless person around Lower Lonsdale, or Brentwood, or Richmond Centre, or Burquitlam, or even Kerrisdale or Joyce; let alone an encampment (dubiously, Surrey gets the distinction of standing with downtown Vancouer here ). Compare this to cities on the East Coast which are known for their homelessness issues like New York, Philadelphia, or Baltimore and it's more spread out and a common element of life throughout the city but as far as I know they never accumulate tent cities like we do on the West Coast here (looking at Seattle, Portland, and LA here too).

Homeless encampments are not inherently evil necessarily, after all in our system some people just don't seem to have the mental faculties to get off the street, but tent cities seem like unironic hives of scum and villainry. They're not good for the people around them, they're not good for the people in them, and they don't seem to be good for the structures around them either.

[madog222]

They've finished between Main and Gore and have now reclosed Hastings between Main and Columbia.

[Vin]

Of course, the former inept mayor has something nasty to say about the latest sweep:

“Welcome to Cruel Vancouver”: Former mayor slams “genocidal” East Hastings plan
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/welc...yor-decampment
On October 15, 2022, 85,732 of you voted to elect a new mayor and council who today abandoned our attempts to reconcile with Indigenous people and resume traditional genocidal practices. Welcome to Cruel Vancouver.

Words like "genocidal" and "colonist" are used. Also, we are now a "cruel" city. Yay!!

Originally Posted by scryer

Just a question for clarity: are these people being relocated at all?

Shelter or jail: pick one. It is really simple, actually.

[Vin]

• Video Link

Advocates only came to disrupt VPD and City crew in the afternoon. The City actually started clearing early in the morning.

To the "advocates":
Sleeping in, ya?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Shelter or jail: pick one. It is really simple, actually.

The only thing that's simple is you. The new wonderful mayor admitted that there actually weren't enough available shelter beds for all the people living on Hastings. And let's not forget there's still an encampment on Crab Park (which a judge didn't allow the Park Board to clear, because there aren't alternate shelter beds). And there are plenty more homeless camping in alleys, behind buildings, under awnings and probably in places like Stanley Park.

This sweep is all about meeting the requirements of the Fire Chief, and breaking up the community that had built up along East Hastings. It's not about housing the homeless. There are more shelter beds being built, and more non-market supported housing for the homeless, (approved by the previous Council) but right now there's not enough. And there are landlords illegally evicting SRO tenants so they can renovate and charge higher rents, making the situation worse.

[Migrant_Coconut]

tl;dr: There's a 99.9% chance there'll be another tent city somewhere else in the next few weeks, so ABC'll either cut their losses now, or waste a lot of time and resources playing whack-a-mole for the next three and a half years.

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The only thing that's simple is you. The new wonderful mayor admitted that there actually weren't enough available shelter beds for all the people living on Hastings. And let's not forget there's still an encampment on Crab Park (which a judge didn't allow the Park Board to clear, because there aren't alternate shelter beds). And there are plenty more homeless camping in alleys, behind buildings, under awnings and probably in places like Stanley Park.

This sweep is all about meeting the requirements of the Fire Chief, and breaking up the community that had built up along East Hastings. It's not about housing the homeless. There are more shelter beds being built, and more non-market supported housing for the homeless, (approved by the previous Council) but right now there's not enough. And there are landlords illegally evicting SRO tenants so they can renovate and charge higher rents, making the situation worse.

It is not Vancouver’s responsibility or obligation to provide housing for those folks. It’s a provincial and federal issues that they choose to do nothing about.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The only thing that's simple is you. The new wonderful mayor admitted that there actually weren't enough available shelter beds for all the people living on Hastings. And let's not forget there's still an encampment on Crab Park (which a judge didn't allow the Park Board to clear, because there aren't alternate shelter beds). And there are plenty more homeless camping in alleys, behind buildings, under awnings and probably in places like Stanley Park.

This sweep is all about meeting the requirements of the Fire Chief, and breaking up the community that had built up along East Hastings. It's not about housing the homeless. There are more shelter beds being built, and more non-market supported housing for the homeless, (approved by the previous Council) but right now there's not enough. And there are landlords illegally evicting SRO tenants so they can renovate and charge higher rents, making the situation worse.

Correction: The "new wonderful" mayor never said that, but the City manager did. BTW, Vancouver isn't the only place that provides shelters. At least many of these illegal squatters will be forced to seek alternative shelters, and that's a very good thing.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

tl;dr: There's a 99.9% chance there'll be another tent city somewhere else in the next few weeks, so ABC'll either cut their losses now, or waste a lot of time and resources playing whack-a-mole for the next three and a half years.

Crab Park?

It's a tolerable spot compared to the sidewalks of Hastings.

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by chowhou

It seems to me that encampments are an inescapable reality; There are some people that either by choice or by circumstance simply can't be removed from the street without continuous intervention. Even the communist police state of the Soviet Union where everyone was guaranteed a house and homelessness was punishable by imprisonment had homelessness.

However, I don't think tent cities are inescapable. For whatever reason we've decided to concentrate almost all of the Lower Mainland's homeless population into a dozen or so blocks in the DTES (either by pragmatism, NIMBYism, or altruism; pick your side), but it doesn't have to be that way. I remember reading some interesting statistics which showed that the Lower Mainland doesn't actually have a significantly higher homeless population than any other North American city, it's just Vancouver proper and the DTES that does because they've all been concentrated there. Head to any other town centre in the Lower Mainland (or even any medium+ density part of Vancouver) and you'd have to go out of your way to find a single homeless person. In my experience you won't ever see a homeless person around Lower Lonsdale, or Brentwood, or Richmond Centre, or Burquitlam, or even Kerrisdale or Joyce; let alone an encampment (dubiously, Surrey gets the distinction of standing with downtown Vancouer here ). Compare this to cities on the East Coast which are known for their homelessness issues like New York, Philadelphia, or Baltimore and it's more spread out and a common element of life throughout the city but as far as I know they never accumulate tent cities like we do on the West Coast here (looking at Seattle, Portland, and LA here too).

Homeless encampments are not inherently evil necessarily, after all in our system some people just don't seem to have the mental faculties to get off the street, but tent cities seem like unironic hives of scum and villainry. They're not good for the people around them, they're not good for the people in them, and they don't seem to be good for the structures around them either.

Lots of homeless folks in Burnaby including Brentwood, Metrotown, Lougheed and Edmonds. Highest concentration is at Central Park. There are dozens of camps inside Central Park that public is not aware about.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Crab Park?

It's a tolerable spot compared to the sidewalks of Hastings.

The same CRAB Park camp ABC says they also wants to get rid of? Like I said: 3-4 more years of whack-a-mole.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Lots of homeless folks in Burnaby including Brentwood, Metrotown, Lougheed and Edmonds. Highest concentration is at Central Park. There are dozens of camps inside Central Park that public is not aware about.

I spend a lot of time in the Brentwood area and I honestly cannot remember ever seeing a homeless person in the area. Perhaps I'm blind but in my more limited time around Metrotown or Lougheed I don't remember ever seeing any there either. Now it's entirely possible that I'm wrong about that and they've found hiding places outside of the public realm or they pack up early in the morning and setup again late at night, but if either of those are true then that kind of feeds into my thesis that there doesn't have to be tent cities. Can't speak towards Edmonds though, not my stomping grounds.

Edit: Actually finally one came to my mind, for a while last year there was someone permanently encamped at the intersection of the Willingdon and Hwy 1 westbound offramp inside the cloverleaf on the sidewalk. I don't think he made it a year before he got kicked out. Not exactly Brentwood though and only a single individual though. Hope they're not in the DTES now.

Edit2: And there was also the man encamped in Broadview Park who killed that RCMP officer, I suppose.

Either way, relative to the downtown core the amount of homelessness in the Lower Mainland still appears to me to be extremely sparse.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Lexus

It is not Vancouver’s responsibility or obligation to provide housing for those folks. It’s a provincial and federal issues that they choose to do nothing about.

You're right that housing and homeless is not the responsibility of the City. That's why ABC could close the Renter's Office that the previous Council had established. But the City (and other municipalities) end up paying the bill for the policing, and first responder calls, and all the other costs that come from having inadequate numbers of shelter beds and SRO rooms that are so awful that some people would rather live in a tent on the street. That's why the City started finding ways to increase the number of shelter beds and increase provision of non-market housing - it's not their responsibility, but it is their problem.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Correction: The "new wonderful" mayor never said that, but the City manager did.

You're quite correct. The mayor was standing next to the City Manager when he clarified that there weren't actually enough shelter beds available. That was because journalists were questioning the Mayor's statement that "Shelter space is available to those currently residing on Hastings St." Which turned out to be misleading - some shelter space was available, but not enough.