Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Transit4Utah]

The teaser seems to have inspired much discussion. Here is another...

This proposal is unaffiliated with UDOT, but is meant to heavily influence both the cottonwood canyons and point of the mountain transit proposals by tying them together into a single project. One line that accomplishes multiple different transit purposes. Simple, Marketable, Efficient. Branding and strategy is key to garnering support moving forward.

There is some conceptual engineering still to be done as well as finishing the proposal document and associated graphics before it's sent out to decision makers. Lets not jump the gun on this as an online community before all relevant information is compiled/illustrated in order to give stakeholders a comprehensive plan and ability to make informed decisions. That said, once completed, garnering this forum's ability to spread information ASAP will be critical.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by Transit4Utah

The teaser seems to have inspired much discussion. Here is another...

This proposal is unaffiliated with UDOT, but is meant to heavily influence both the cottonwood canyons and point of the mountain transit proposals by tying them together into a single project. One line that accomplishes multiple different transit purposes. Simple, Marketable, Efficient. Branding and strategy is key to garnering support moving forward.

There is some conceptual engineering still to be done as well as finishing the proposal document and associated graphics before it's sent out to decision makers. Lets not jump the gun on this as an online community before all relevant information is compiled/illustrated in order to give stakeholders a comprehensive plan and ability to make informed decisions. That said, once completed, garnering this forum's ability to spread information ASAP will be critical.

Looks neat, definitely excited to see the final product. Definitely an uphill battle with UDOT on the gondola thing. Only thing I'd add is changing "Silicone Slopes" to "Silicon Slopes".

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Looks neat, definitely excited to see the final product. Definitely an uphill battle with UDOT on the gondola thing. Only thing I'd add is changing "Silicone Slopes" to "Silicon Slopes".

Anyone else think "Silicone Slopes" is unintentionally hilarious on multiple levels?

Mountain Line looks good, and I would absolutely love to see it connect seamlessly with a cog section up the canyons. Stadler claimed to be able to build hybrid trains that could do it. If the ROW is built, these trains could run from Lehi and/or express from SLC direct to Alta.

My (egregiously optimistic) Frontlines 2034 wish list:

• Rio Grande Plan
• TRAX Blue Line extension to Lehi
• TRAX Orange Line from Research Park to Airport with new ROW on 400S, Foothill
• TRAX 400W extension from 200S to Ballpark, Red Line reroute
• Hybrid TRAX Mountain Line with cog rail section to Alta
• S-Line extensions north (to Westminster) and south (to downtown Millcreek) on Highland
• Streetcar on 200S servicing the former Blue Line station at Greektown (abandoned by RGP) and running all the way to President's Circle
• Extended operating hours for all rail, 24-hrs for Orange Line
• 15-minute peak FrontRunner service
• Sunday FrontRunner service
• FrontRunner extensions north to Ogden Business Depot and Brigham City, and south to Spanish Fork
• Dual-mode multiple unit FLIRT or KISS rolling stock for FrontRunner to enable piecewise gradual electrification
• Functioning state-sponsored Amtrak routes to Las Vegas and Boise
• ROW acquisition/planning for Tooele/PC line

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Transit4Utah

The teaser seems to have inspired much discussion. Here is another...

This proposal is unaffiliated with UDOT, but is meant to heavily influence both the cottonwood canyons and point of the mountain transit proposals by tying them together into a single project. One line that accomplishes multiple different transit purposes. Simple, Marketable, Efficient. Branding and strategy is key to garnering support moving forward.

There is some conceptual engineering still to be done as well as finishing the proposal document and associated graphics before it's sent out to decision makers. Lets not jump the gun on this as an online community before all relevant information is compiled/illustrated in order to give stakeholders a comprehensive plan and ability to make informed decisions. That said, once completed, garnering this forum's ability to spread information ASAP will be critical.

It would seem I only guessed half of it! The track configuration at Fashion Place West should have been a huge hint that the I-215 line was meant to be entered from the south, but I didn't pick up on that until now.

[Sidenote, I never really liked the 2-platform setup at Fashion Place West. I think it is unnecessarily complicated, and left as it is, it would prevent trains from traveling directly from the Cottonwood Canyons to Daybreak. If I had my way, I'd realign the curve to the west back to the center track, and leave the far western track as a stub track. Some future rush hour-only line could use that track as an end-of-line/turnaround, providing service along the main trunk every 5 minutes or less during the busiest times. But I digress...]

I think this Mountain Line is a very interesting idea - I will have to give it more thought. The section between Sandy and The Point is what gives me most pause, since I really don't like the idea of leaving the current Draper line unfinished in favor of a new alignment along I-15. If I could somehow have both things (the faster Draper line to American Fork on the old railroad ROW) and a slower, more local connection between Sandy and the Point (using the inevitably slower new alignment on I-15), I would lose my hesitation right away. And I do like the idea of a TRAX station at the aquarium; that would definitely be a popular stop.

I also like the symetry of the two green lines on this map. Very slick presentation - I can't wait to see the full proposal!

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Anyone else think "Silicone Slopes" is unintentionally hilarious on multiple levels?

Mountain Line looks good, and I would absolutely love to see it connect seamlessly with a cog section up the canyons. Stadler claimed to be able to build hybrid trains that could do it. If the ROW is built, these trains could run from Lehi and/or express from SLC direct to Alta.

My (egregiously optimistic) Frontlines 2034 wish list:

• Rio Grande Plan
• TRAX Blue Line extension to Lehi
• TRAX Orange Line from Research Park to Airport with new ROW on 400S, Foothill
• TRAX 400W extension from 200S to Ballpark, Red Line reroute
• Hybrid TRAX Mountain Line with cog rail section to Alta
• S-Line extensions north (to Westminster) and south (to downtown Millcreek) on Highland
• Streetcar on 200S servicing the former Blue Line station at Greektown (abandoned by RGP) and running all the way to President's Circle
• Extended operating hours for all rail, 24-hrs for Orange Line
• 15-minute peak FrontRunner service
• Sunday FrontRunner service
• FrontRunner extensions north to Ogden Business Depot and Brigham City, and south to Spanish Fork
• Dual-mode multiple unit FLIRT or KISS rolling stock for FrontRunner to enable piecewise gradual electrification
• Functioning state-sponsored Amtrak routes to Las Vegas and Boise
• ROW acquisition/planning for Tooele/PC line

This is a good list. I'd add a few BRT lines to the mix - such as on 700 East that curves into downtown on 2nd South, or on State Street. Extending the new Mid-Valley connector (currently planned from Murray to West Valley Central) out to Magna on the old MAX corridor would also be cool.

I'd also like to see state-supported rail service begin in-state, such as on a line from SLC to Moab. If that line proves successful, then getting cooperation from Idaho and Nevada to run trains to Pocatello/Boise and Las Vegas becomes more likely. I think it would also be a good use of the current FrontRunner equipment (supposing it does start to get replaced with Stadler trainsets) to run a few trains from SLC to Cache Valley, just to test the waters for a future expansion of FrontRunner to Brigham City and Logan.

And of course, I want higher frequency on TRAX. I want 10 minute service or less, at least during peak hours. 15-minutes still isn't really frequent enough to not 'live by a train schedule.' In the wind and snow, 15 minutes can feel like an eternity.

If I were to get ambitious, I'd start discussing how we need to grade-separate the entire TRAX line from ballpark to Fashion Place, and add 2 express tracks for higher speed and capacity... but that's more wishful thinking than anything.

[Jbash]

Originally Posted by Transit4Utah

The teaser seems to have inspired much discussion. Here is another...

This proposal is unaffiliated with UDOT, but is meant to heavily influence both the cottonwood canyons and point of the mountain transit proposals by tying them together into a single project. One line that accomplishes multiple different transit purposes. Simple, Marketable, Efficient. Branding and strategy is key to garnering support moving forward.

There is some conceptual engineering still to be done as well as finishing the proposal document and associated graphics before it's sent out to decision makers. Lets not jump the gun on this as an online community before all relevant information is compiled/illustrated in order to give stakeholders a comprehensive plan and ability to make informed decisions. That said, once completed, garnering this forum's ability to spread information ASAP will be critical.

You seem to have some good insider knowledge T4U! Could I ask how you came about this information, or is this a project you're involved with directly? Either way it's always cool to hear from industry insiders on here. Seeing as I'm just out of high school, I don't have the luxury of knowledge haha

[Paniolo Man]

All the talk of "Frontlines 2034" inspired me.

Letter: We can plan a system that will make Utah a transit model for the nation

By Paniolo Man | The Public Forum | March 16, 2023

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Salt Lake City is getting serious about closing Main Street to cars:
https://www.abc4.com/news/wasatch-front/...pedestrian-only-main-street-in-downtown/

This would obviously have some major implications for TRAX, which has 2 stations on this section of Main Street.

The bad implications are that speeds downtown are probably going to have to get even slower, depending on how well TRAX is separated from pedestrians. Some sort of fence is probably not allowed, at least for long stretches, because it would obstruct emergency access to TRAX vehicles. Perhaps curbs and bollards can be used, but even then I think TRAX will have to drop its max speed from 25 mph to 15 like the S-Line, or even 10. The Main Street section already has the slowest average speed on the network, including the S-Line, and slowing trains even further will make through trips (such as U of U to the airport) even longer.
Speaking of the U of U/airport line, there may be new scheduling issues if new restrictions are added on how many trains per hour UTA is allowed to run down Main Street. But on the other hand, with fewer cars to share space with at the 4th South interlocking, it may become easier to schedule a new line. I understand that UTA wants to run this line down 400 South, and though I do support that extension for a downtown circulator route, I think Main Street needs the direct connection to the U more than 4th South does.

On the positive side, having more pedestrian-oriented development and business on the TRAX corridor will be excellent for ridership. I think it would be cool if more platforms were built at the two stations, so that trains could open all their doors and passengers could exit directly onto the plaza.

Ultimately I am definitely in favor of this concept, I only hope that consideration is given to transit functionality and not just pedestrian and visual features.

Main Street has been one bad idea after another. I always thought TRAX should have gone up West Temple, parallel to Main Street, not right down it. And Main Street should have been designated a historic district long ago, and all new towers built along west temple or state street instead.

[Paniolo Man]

Train service to Moab. Inspired by URPA"s Link Utah.

I believe this line should be the first regional line in the state because it would require so little investment. All you have to do is:

• Buy FLIRTS
• Build a short spur and station in Moab
• Negotiate with UPRR to use their tracks and clear off some of their Eastern Utah passing sidings currently filled with abandoned railcars
• Hire people to operate and maintain

Every station except Moab already exists, is in use, and is ADA compliant or actively being brought into compliance.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Old&New

Main Street has been one bad idea after another. I always thought TRAX should have gone up West Temple, parallel to Main Street, not right down it. And Main Street should have been designated a historic district long ago, and all new towers built along west temple or state street instead.

I've always thought the same about TRAX and West Temple. Street festivals and parades ('47 and Pride, etc.) should still go down Main, and Main should be a walking street closed to cars (and TRAX).

[Paniolo Man]

Located about where I'd expect. This station would need a tunnel or bridge to reach BDO.

[RC14]

^
This is good news. I have been wondering about his station, which I haven't heard anything about for awhile. I am disappointed that the station won't be at 2nd street but at least it's happening.

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Train service to Moab. Inspired by URPA"s Link Utah.

I believe this line should be the first regional line in the state because it would require so little investment. All you have to do is:

• Buy FLIRTS
• Build a short spur and station in Moab
• Negotiate with UPRR to use their tracks and clear off some of their Eastern Utah passing sidings currently filled with abandoned railcars
• Hire people to operate and maintain

Every station except Moab already exists, is in use, and is ADA compliant or actively being brought into compliance.

I love this! Especially because, as you said, most of the infrastructure already exists. The only change I would make is to have the line begin at Ogden instead of Salt Lake as, again, the station and ROW already exists.

[rockies]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

The University of Utah Alignment would be quite the undertaking, and for that I believe it to be unlikely. Though if it were built that would offer a solution to the Trunk Line overcrowding, a new line from Lehi to The U via P.O.M. This route would also bring LRT to Millcreek.

I know I'm being aspirational, this is all just speculation.

I was looking at the local link study for sugarhouse/millcreek and it seems to hint at eventually extending the streetcar to the canyons via holiday blvd. Somewhat similar to your proposal. As a bonus it shows the streetcar extending north on 900E and then west on 200S

I would hope it's actually trax and not a streetcar tho

[bob rulz]

I don't think there's much of a chance of actual TRAX along that route. I'll believe a street car when it happens.

[i-215]

Considering this is the "Cottonwood Mall" NIMBY neighborhood, I deeply oppose any transit investment in this area.

I refuse to see limited tax dollars spent to give "toys to rich people" without the responsibility of allowing new, higher-density development to capture value from the investment.

Better to prioritize transit in communities willing to "build up" near stations.

[Paniolo Man]

I sent my Moab idea around and the mayor of St. George actually got back to me. I learned two things. St. George, UP, and Grand County are already engaged in dialog about having a rail depot at the UMTRA site.

I will be meeting with Nathan Anderson, UP's Director on Public Affairs on March 28th to discuss utilizing the current rail site at the UMTRA project as a potential rail depot once the project is completed - anticipated completion 3-5 years.

The second thing I learned is that the name I used "Canyon Country Zephyr" is already the name of an online publication and that I should change it.

[Utahn]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

I sent my Moab idea around and the mayor of St. George actually got back to me. I learned two things. St. George, UP, and Grand County are already engaged in dialog about having a rail depot at the UMTRA site.


The second thing I learned is that the name I used "Canyon Country Zephyr" is already the name of an online publication and that I should change it.

There was a recent meeting in DC with UMTRA leadership on this topic
https://www.moabtimes.com/articles/county-city-to-lobby-congress-on-umtra-site/

Grand County Commission Chair Jacques Hadler, Moab Mayor Joette Langianese, Moab City Councilor Rani Derasary and Grand County Commission Vice Chair Mary McGann will visit the nation’s capital the week of March 6, hoping to meet with 10 senators and 15 members of the House, including all six of Utah’s representatives at the Capitol.

Their aim is to maintain the project’s current funding levels until its completion in the next few years, and to plan for transfer and stewardship of the 480-acre site after its subsequent remediation.

Back in 2019 UDOT said that it was doing a study of rail to Moab. Despite searching for that document past few years, I've never found the document.
https://www.moabtimes.com/articles/udot-eyes-rail-potential/

The Utah Department of Transportation presented to Moab stakeholders last week plans for a feasibility study looking at the prospect of bringing passenger rail service to Moab.

UDOT has hired Cambridge Systematics, a transportation consulting firm headquartered in Massachusetts, to conduct the study. Cambridge Systematics Principal Andreas Aeppli spoke at the presentation.

The main outcome of the study, according to Aeppli’s presentation, will be “essential information on the opportunity and considerations of a service for a discussion on whether further exploration is warranted.”

The initial study is a high-level look at what the largest barriers might be to bringing train service to Moab and what the demand would be. The focus will be traffic between Moab and Salt Lake City, with Grand Junction a possible part of the scope.

Very exciting on the broader rail front though is what's going on with the Federal Railroad Administration's Long Distance Service Study which was part of the infrastructure legislation. It was tasked with evaluating the restoration of daily long-distance intercity rail passenger service and the potential for new Amtrak long-distance routes

The study is looking at any discontinued Amtrak long-distance routes, current non-daly ones, and routes in service in 1971 when Amtrak started but not continued. Also looking at whether frequencies on the current network are sufficient.

Anyways, the FRA held a workshops across the country in February, and they plan to release a shortlist routes this spring, and the prioritized ones this summer. Utah related stuff could include an additional daily California Zephyr (the SLC-Reno portion of the California Zephyr comes in really strong), partial restoration of Desert Wind or Pioneer.

Plenty of materials and data to dig through here on in the Southwest, Northwest, and Overview Working group materials.

https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/meeting-materials/

[Paniolo Man]

DART LRV's operating on TRAX to boost capacity during the 2002 Olympics. Photos courtesy of the Department of Cultural and Community Engagement.

[i-215]

I remember riding one of the DART vehicles during the games. A real treat. Atlanta also had some of the buses for shuttling people between the parking area at the Fairgrounds to downtown for the "Olympic Fun Zone."

I wish I had appreciated 2002 more at the time. I was a high-schooler rapidly approaching draftable age, and was under deep depression because of 9/11. In fact, I found SkyscraperPage in late '01 while looking up stuff about the World Trade Center.
Early 2002 was a magical time to live in Salt Lake County. Hopefully, I will still live here in SoCal during 2028 when the Summer Games come here.

[RC14]

Here is another stupid fantasy transit map I came up with:

I think Ogden is a city with allot of untapped potential. It is a city that was build around trains and once had a street car network but now only has a single Frontrunner station.

I was thinking, it would not be difficult at all to create a rail connection between Ogden airport and Union Station, which will, hopefully, eventually be used as a Frontrunner Station. There is already existing rail ROW along the entire, short route. Although it would probably require some sort of flyover bridge north of Hinckley Dr over the Union Pacific tracks. We could simply build a streetcar line with one station at the airport and one at Union station with the potential for a third serving the Weber river trail.

This street car line could be extended along the, currently under construction, OGX BRT route and latter could be extended south from Ogden airport to Riverdale Rd or even as far south as the Clearfield Frontrunner station.



Unfortunately, there are currently no commercial flights serving Ogden airport but there have been in the recent past. If Ogden could attract more routes they could have a really nice airport with a direct, express connection to Historic 25th street and the rest of UTA's network via Union Station.