[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[Taeolas]

Hopefully the days of 6 stories in Downtown Moncton are almost behind the city (NIMBY issues aside). 10+ should be the minimum for the core of the city going forward. 30 is probably too much at this stage, at least until there's enough 15-20 stories around to fill things in. But a 25 at this stage might not be too out of place the way the city is growing.

[JHikka]

Nothing but 10+ would also create a sterile environment. Generally you want a mix of different-sized developments to create a mix of options not only aesthetically but for the market in general. Cities like Paris and New York are primarily all shorter builds with, in New York's case, areas with taller builds. Obviously Moncton is neither of these cities but they form a good base of what active and healthy urban builds look like. Rows of towers aren't conducive to good urban environments.

Something like a central business district is generally all tall towers and those environments are generally very sterile, especially outside of standard 9-5 hours.

[Taeolas]

That sterileness can be more a flaw in the city design/planning than just because they are all 10+ stories.

Setbacks and similar rules can give the impression of a more cozy street scape while still allowing height. Consider the Waverly building on Regent street in Fredericton. It's 6 stories tall, but the top stories are set back from the street so it feels like it's just a 3 story building at the street level.

In any case, like anything absolutes are generally a bad idea; but I do believe Moncton should be focusing on higher when possible/feasible, especially in the core.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

In any case, like anything absolutes are generally a bad idea; but I do believe Moncton should be focusing on higher when possible/feasible, especially in the core.

I agree with you. In each location, they only have one chance to get it right. Nobody is going come around in 10 years and say we’ll this 6 storey condo building really ought to be taller so I’m going to tare it down and build it 12 storeys. It would be nice to see at least one other building if similar height to assumption place if not slightly taller. And the rest of the new buildings have good sized podiums (4-6 storeys) with a nice 10-20 storey tower on it. The nice this about these towers being built right now though, is they’re almost all residential towers, so it’ll create less of a dead zone than a block of office towers would.

[MonctonRad]

OK - Here is my preference for downtown:

1) - Height (greater than 12 storeys) should be concentrated south of Main Street (this is essentially what is happening anyway what with the Three Sisters, the rumoured 4th sister across the street, and the Ashford development which is rumoured to be 14 storeys).
2) - The historic character of Main Street downtown and of St. George Street should be maintained, and should be enhanced with the addition of tasteful new buildings of similar stature.
3) - Exceptions to this policy could be made for East Main (essentially a barren brownfield), where the Harper Building is planned, and also for West Main, especially around the Avenir Centre where more height (up to 20 storeys) could be allowed.
4) - The downtown west end between Main and St. George Streets should be limited to no more than six storeys in order to promote to promote a dense neighbourhood of medium sized apartment and mixed use buildings (like the recent new additions on Cameron, Weldon and Highfield).
5) - Anything north of St. George Street, and, also the old west end (except for along Vaughan Harvey) should remain as SFH residential with small scattered 3-4 storey apartment buildings.

[Nashe]

You're not going to be able to change the "character" of main street much in the areas that already have historic 4-6 story buildings... as they aren't going anywhere. The gaps that exist are exactly where they are building 6-10+ now... empty lots and the like. Main will never be a narrow canyon, at least in the area between Foundry and Lewis/Assumption.

[jonny golden]

I wonder when we're going to hear about the plans for the Crowne Plaza block? Soon?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I wonder when we're going to hear about the plans for the Crowne Plaza block? Soon?

The developer still wants to make his own announcement for Baton Rouge. I imagine it will coincide with ground breaking, sometime later in the spring.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm still expecting them to break ground this spring. Why? Have you heard otherwise?

I just went back and looked up the new agreement between the city and Galco. There was a further 18 month extension granted to Galco in December 2022. They wouldn't have to start this development until June 2024.

I really hope you're right about them starting this spring. It would be a nice addition to downtown Moncton, and eliminate yet another surface parking lot.

[josh_cat_eyes]

I noticed on the Moncton future roads map that they have a connection to the new downtown east-west street to Canada Street behind the Hyatt Place hotel. This in turn connection to Ivan Rand as shown on the map too. This Street connection is interesting as it would be another at grade crossing of the rail tracks, and make some of the parking south of the tracks, that much closer to Avenir Centre.
They also have Assumption connecting to the traffic circle at the end of Wheeler/Main Street.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

I noticed on the Moncton future roads map that they have a connection to the new downtown east-west street to Canada Street behind the Hyatt Place hotel. This in turn connection to Ivan Rand as shown on the map too. This Street connection is interesting as it would be another at grade crossing of the rail tracks, and make some of the parking south of the tracks, that much closer to Avenir Centre.
They also have Assumption connecting to the traffic circle at the end of Wheeler/Main Street.

Interesting. I mapped these out (light colours for built, dark for proposed) over satellite imagery (https://imgur.com/a/SDWg6Y6) and hadn't realized how much of Ivan Rand/Canada has already been built. The 'missing' pieces range from street upgrades (train station to SW of Avenir Centre) to extensive projects that won't happen without serious development (Tannery Place to behind the car lot) to downright questionable (at-grade crossing SE of Avenir).

The yet-unnamed new street that was supposed to run from Downing to Foundry is pictured, but instead of stopping at Foundry, it crosses the tracks to Canada. There's also ANOTHER new street in the area: an extension of Record from Lutz to Westmorland, just west of the courthouse.

Is the Assomption extension even necessary at this time? Or, is this just an ambitious end-goal of connecting southwest and central Moncton while avoiding another at-grade interchange?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Interesting. I mapped these out (light colours for built, dark for proposed) over satellite imagery (https://imgur.com/a/SDWg6Y6) and hadn't realized how much of Ivan Rand/Canada has already been built. The 'missing' pieces range from street upgrades (train station to SW of Avenir Centre) to extensive projects that won't happen without serious development (Tannery Place to behind the car lot) to downright questionable (at-grade crossing SE of Avenir).

The yet-unnamed new street that was supposed to run from Downing to Foundry is pictured, but instead of stopping at Foundry, it crosses the tracks to Canada. There's also ANOTHER new street in the area: an extension of Record from Lutz to Westmorland, just west of the courthouse.

Is the Assomption extension even necessary at this time? Or, is this just an ambitious end-goal of connecting southwest and central Moncton while avoiding another at-grade interchange?

I like the idea of Canada connecting to the new street. It means you don’t have to walk as far if you park on that side of the tracks and walk to Avenir Centre.

Also the extension of assumption is also probably just a long term plan. It would take a lot of cars off of west main, potentially making it easier for pedestrians. Perhaps they do a Road diet on it and shrink it down to 2 or 3 lanes with bike lanes like they did on Salisbury road. Future roads maps generally have like a 25+ year window. Usually they’re updated every decade or so unless needed before hand. The Moncton one is very recent, from last year I believe.

[MonctonRad]

I'm getting concerned that we have heard nothing from the proponents of 1333 Main since that big dust-up with the tomato people, and the initial backtracking where they were considering a six storey wooden box over a 10 storey reinforced concrete building in order to allay their concerns. Subsequently, there was a big pushback by the GMCC, the city and development forums such as ours that the developers should hold firm and carry on with their original plans.

This has put the developers between a rock and a hard place. I wonder what the chances are that they will now simply elect not to proceed with their plans, or at least to delay them until the fuss dies down. I think there is a very real risk we may end up with a vacant lot with all the trees cut down on the NW corner of Main & Vaughan Harvey, and it may stay that way for at least a couple of years............

We had better hear something soon, or I will fear the worst. The developers may even elect to sell the land (like the original owners of the proposed St. Bernard Square did).

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm getting concerned that we have heard nothing from the proponents of 1333 Main since that big dust-up with the tomato people, and the initial backtracking where they were considering a six storey wooden box over a 10 storey reinforced concrete building in order to allay their concerns. Subsequently, there was a big pushback by the GMCC, the city and development forums such as ours that the developers should hold firm and carry on with their original plans.

This has put the developers between a rock and a hard place. I wonder what the chances are that they will now simply elect not to proceed with their plans, or at least to delay them until the fuss dies down. I think there is a very real risk we may end up with a vacant lot with all the trees cut down on the NW corner of Main & Vaughan Harvey, and it may stay that way for at least a couple of years............

We had better hear something soon, or I will fear the worst. The developers may even elect to sell the land (like the original owners of the proposed St. Bernard Square did).

I agree. They were all set to go, and now here we are about a week from April and there's been nothing. The developer has been working on this project for quite some time. It was last June that the city council voted to sell the land to them, and at that time they released a rendering of the building.

Something just doesn't feel right about this whole deal. It would be quite the fiasco if they pulled out of the project and we were left with the existing eyesore on a very important downtown corner.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I agree. They were all set to go, and now here we are about a week from April and there's been nothing. The developer has been working on this project for quite some time. It was last June that the city council voted to sell the land to them, and at that time they released a rendering of the building.

Something just doesn't feel right about this whole deal. It would be quite the fiasco if they pulled out of the project and we were left with the existing eyesore on a very important downtown corner.

Or mytake on it is: do a little negotiation with the tomato lady.run the6 numbers and see the 6 storey bulding is not feasible. Decide to b uild the original 10 storey proposal. Do due diligence to ensure the protestors cannot upend your plans and then proceed with the project.

I still think plan A will proceed.

[josh_cat_eyes]

How about just build the damn 10 storey building like the city approved and who gives a crap what the naysayers think or say. It’s his land, his money and his development. Don’t let a little NIMBYism get in the way of a perfectly fin fine development.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

How about just build the damn 10 storey building like the city approved and who gives a crap what the naysayers think or say. It’s his land, his money and his development. Don’t let a little NIMBYism get in the way of a perfectly fin fine development.

You'd think that that's the most logical thing to do. So the question is: Why haven't we heard anything about the project; what's going on here?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

You'd think that that's the most logical thing to do. So the question is: Why haven't we heard anything about the project; what's going on here?

Maybe about if spit he’s going to make it EVEN BIGGER!

It also could be that it’s been winter and construction generally doesn’t get started in the winter in Canada. If we don’t hear anything or see anything in the next month, THEN I would really start to worry.

[MonctonRad]

The tender for the RCMP community policing office on Main Street has been finally awarded.



Renovations will begin in April with occupancy this summer. This office will remain open, even after the Codiac RCMP service moves into their new HQ building on Albert Street in 2025.

https://tj.news/times-and-transcript/102084129# (paywall)

[jonny golden]

Being a new week, I was thinking we might have heard something on 1333 Main Street today. But still nothing!