The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The west coast has always been more lax than the east with respect to all kinds of things including work/life balance, and work dress codes.

^ This. Even our executives dress casual more often, and that's before and after the lockdown.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The link to their filing:

https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/sites/d...al%20Canada%20Inc.%20-%2001-MAR-2023.pdf

They say Nordstroms US has invested $775 million USD to launch in Canada.

Ontario 1334 Employees
All the full line stores 236-348 employees
Alberta 356
BC 643
Pacific Centre 498/98 (full time/part-time)

[Vin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Sore at the success of other city centre malls in Canada?

I don't know why I bother asking, but which city centre malls would you take over the #1 city centre mall in North America?

Just as a little hint since you seem to struggle with basic logic; the best malls don't offer space for a discount fire sale to fill up spaces fast, the valuation losses would be catastrophic. You wouldn't know a pragmatic business strategy if it slapped you in the face.

I think you've truly lost the plot this time.

With your kind of logic, no wonder so many businesses fail in this country.

[LeftCoaster]

Yeah, because making strategic decisions with a thought to how it affects the valuation of billion dollar assets is poor business logic....

Where did you go to business school, Chuck-E-Cheese University?

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

^ This. Even our executives dress casual more often, and that's before and after the lockdown.

While I agree with you I think Vancouver has a very different demographic where the dollars are.

Anecdotally - Calgary Holt Renfrew and Harry Rosen (downtown) have a far larger amount of business attire or suiting vs what we see here in Vancouver. Nordstroms business/dress apparel accounted a very small part of the floor space with most being dedicated to designer/street wear. I would also suggest that those in Vancouver that work aren't always at the higher end of the spectrum when it comes to purchasing this sort of clothing whereas Toronto/Calgary would have more corporate head offices etc. The business culture in Vancouver is definitely different but we can also say there just isn't as many white collar jobs here.

I find it frustrating shopping here for this sort of apparel - I am definitely not in the Canali/Kiton price point but I also don't want to shop at mens warehouse or even the bay (especially given the drab sad state of affairs at most stores - just not a great retail environment). I find myself going to Nordrstom in Seattle/Bellevue since they carry a brand of dress shirts that they used to carry in canada which is a reasonable price point vs quality.

As noted a few posts up - holt used to have a massive selection business attire (shirts/ties/suits/etc) but that for the most part is gone in this market which definitely reflects the demographic.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Yeah, because making strategic decisions with a thought to how it affects the valuation of billion dollar assets is poor business logic....

Where did you go to business school, Chuck-E-Cheese University?

I’m sure his SimCity is quite successful.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by theKB

While I agree with you I think Vancouver has a very different demographic where the dollars are.

Anecdotally - Calgary Holt Renfrew and Harry Rosen (downtown) have a far larger amount of business attire or suiting vs what we see here in Vancouver. Nordstroms business/dress apparel accounted a very small part of the floor space with most being dedicated to designer/street wear. I would also suggest that those in Vancouver that work aren't always at the higher end of the spectrum when it comes to purchasing this sort of clothing whereas Toronto/Calgary would have more corporate head offices etc. The business culture in Vancouver is definitely different but we can also say there just isn't as many white collar jobs here.

I find it frustrating shopping here for this sort of apparel - I am definitely not in the Canali/Kiton price point but I also don't want to shop at mens warehouse or even the bay (especially given the drab sad state of affairs at most stores - just not a great retail environment). I find myself going to Nordrstom in Seattle/Bellevue since they carry a brand of dress shirts that they used to carry in canada which is a reasonable price point vs quality.

As noted a few posts up - holt used to have a massive selection business attire (shirts/ties/suits/etc) but that for the most part is gone in this market which definitely reflects the demographic.

In Vancouver "formal" means black yoga pants and a black hoodie.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by theKB

The business culture in Vancouver is definitely different but we can also say there just isn't as many white collar jobs here.

I disagree. There are plenty of white collar jobs in Vancouver and probably more in absolute terms compared to Calgary.

Maybe it has something to do with the dominant industries in Calgary vs. Vancouver. After all, Calgary is the financial centre of Western Canada which means lots of suit-wearing bankers.

But whatnext is probably more correct: the dress norms for the same industries in both cities are probably more lax in Vancouver. I am curious, for example, if a healthcare executive in Calgary would tend to wear more formal wear compared to their counterpart in Vancouver.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In Vancouver "formal" means black yoga pants and a black hoodie.

A hoody may be pushing it, but among the male accountants at my firm there is roughly a 30/70 split between wearing a button down with no tie or jacket and wearing a crew neck sweater.

Practically all of us either wear lululemon's ABC pants or dark wash jeans.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Yeah, because making strategic decisions with a thought to how it affects the valuation of billion dollar assets is poor business logic....

Where did you go to business school, Chuck-E-Cheese University?

Oh I wish! If a lesson in business resilience means anything, the survival of Chuck-E-Cheese should be well noted. If businesses are really properly evaluated, the Nordstrom space would not have to be constantly vacated for a period of time with so much investment write-offs, no revenue for the landlord with added costs for renovation and construction, only to have the cycle repeated every few years.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Oh I wish! If businesses can be run like Chuck-E-Cheese we wouldn't be seeing the Nordstrom space constantly vacated for a period of time with no revenue for the landlord, added cost of renovation and construction, only to be repeated every few years.

So that was your university?

[mcj]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Maybe it has something to do with the dominant industries in Calgary vs. Vancouver. After all, Calgary is the financial centre of Western Canada which means lots of suit-wearing bankers.

I'm not in finance, but I have trouble believing that Calgary has more of presence in the finance sector than Vancouver does (or is this one of those things where BC, the western most province, is excluded from "Western Canada"). Calgary's dominant industry is definitely oil & gas, an industry that attracts primarily conservative minded people and therefore people that will be more traditional in their clothing choices.

[whatnext]

According to DailyHive the Pacific Centre Nordstrom was the chain's top grossing store not just in Canada but the USA:

....It has been known for years that Vancouver’s Nordstrom flagship at CF Pacific Centre was widely regarded by the company as an immense success. And as it turns out, according to experts in the retail industry, it was by far the best one. The company has about 100 full-line department stores in Canada and the United States, which does not include the numbers for Nordstrom Rack.

“The Vancouver store blew all other Canadian locations out of the water. This was the top store in the company, even beating out Seattle and Chicago which were the other top units,” Craig Patterson, the founder and publisher of retail news publication Retail Insider, emphatically told Daily Hive Urbanized in an interview.

Vancouver’s store even performed better than the 2019-opened, 320,000 sq ft New York City flagship in Manhattan, which has since seen its performance tank to the same level as a suburban location.

“Vancouver was performing almost triple more than the second-best store. It was really the only store that was doing absolute gangbuster sales,” he said...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-nordstrom-store-performance-canada-shutdown

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So that was your university?

The ongoing animosity between Mr Chuck and Mr Cheese has been well documented

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

According to DailyHive the Pacific Centre Nordstrom was the chain's top grossing store not just in Canada but the USA:

....It has been known for years that Vancouver’s Nordstrom flagship at CF Pacific Centre was widely regarded by the company as an immense success. And as it turns out, according to experts in the retail industry, it was by far the best one. The company has about 100 full-line department stores in Canada and the United States, which does not include the numbers for Nordstrom Rack.

“The Vancouver store blew all other Canadian locations out of the water. This was the top store in the company, even beating out Seattle and Chicago which were the other top units,” Craig Patterson, the founder and publisher of retail news publication Retail Insider, emphatically told Daily Hive Urbanized in an interview.

Vancouver’s store even performed better than the 2019-opened, 320,000 sq ft New York City flagship in Manhattan, which has since seen its performance tank to the same level as a suburban location.

“Vancouver was performing almost triple more than the second-best store. It was really the only store that was doing absolute gangbuster sales,” he said...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-nordstrom-store-performance-canada-shutdown

Vancouver also had a lot of wealthy immigrants pre-pandemic, who were willing to purchase from stores such as Nordstrom, including a certain demographic group that you are so critical of or even despise. You of all should be glad that such stores are gone.

[Denscity]

I can't imagine closing by far the best performing store plus it's so close to head office that surely they could have made the situation work?

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by mcj

I'm not in finance, but I have trouble believing that Calgary has more of presence in the finance sector than Vancouver does (or is this one of those things where BC, the western most province, is excluded from "Western Canada").

Per this fact sheet Calgary had 9 more corporate headquarters compared to Vancouver. That's not a big spread.

But there are far more investment banking jobs in Calgary than Vancouver.

[s211]

Originally Posted by mcj

I'm not in finance, but I have trouble believing that Calgary has more of presence in the finance sector than Vancouver does.

You'll have to change your beliefs. The banking/finance sector has a FAR larger presence in Calgary than Vancouver.

I almost spit-took when I saw your comment.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Vin

Vancouver also had a lot of wealthy immigrants pre-pandemic, who were willing to purchase from stores such as Nordstrom, including a certain demographic group that you are so critical of or even despise. You of all should be glad that such stores are gone.

I'll take affordable housing over being able to buy the latest disposable fashion from TopShop or bejewelled loafers , thanks.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by s211

You'll have to change your beliefs. The banking/finance sector has a FAR larger presence in Calgary than Vancouver.

I almost spit-took when I saw your comment.

The 2021 census says Calgary has 28,370 working in Finance and insurance, while Vancouver has 65,305. The detailed breakdown by North American Industry Classification System [NAICS] shows:
Calgary
521 Monetary authorities - central bank 45
522 Credit intermediation and related activities 11,900
523 Securities, commodity contracts, and other financial investment and related activities 6,560
524 Insurance carriers and related activities 9,710
526 Funds and other financial vehicles 155

Vancouver
521 Monetary authorities - central bank 0
522 Credit intermediation and related activities 25,755
523 Securities, commodity contracts, and other financial investment and related activities 14,505
524 Insurance carriers and related activities 24,930
526 Funds and other financial vehicles 115