The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

With Nordstrom's impending closure, there's one less major tax payer for Vancouver that's for sure.

Fortunately the City will still get their money, because it just means CF pay the taxes once Nordstrom are off the hook, until the space is leased again.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

What about converting it into something like a rectangular version of Westlake Center in Seattle? A lively inviting place that is a real magnet for people downtown?
With a smart boutique hotel, perhaps? (gotta think of all the possibilities).

have you been Westlake centre recently? I went in 2020 and it was pretty bad. Nothing much at all. They had a Zara, Nordstrom Rack and a Saks off 5th and most of it was pretty empty. You have to walk through it to get to the monorail but thats about it. It was doing better than Pacific Place a block or so away, that mall is very bleak, it was once a great mall to shop at.

[SpongeG]

Some pics from the Guildford Hudson's Bay store. This is where the Zellers will go I assume, NE corner of the bottom level. And FYI they are having a good sale on clearance fashion and shoes, buy one and get one free. Some deals are to be had. They even had Ralph Lauren Polo socks.

2023-03-03_05-22-05 by snub_you, on Flickr

2023-03-03_05-21-58 by snub_you, on Flickr

[officedweller]

That ceiling looks tired.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

It was doing better than Pacific Place a block or so away, that mall is very bleak, it was once a great mall to shop at.

Hudson Pacific Properties plans to convert Pacific Place, Seattle to office space, possible adding towers on top of the existing structure.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/de...over-at-downtown-seattles-pacific-place/

[C3YVR]

Hudson pulled out of the Pacific Place deal in September, the mostly empty mall is now advertising space available for pop-ups and mom/pop shops on Facebook.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I think someone posted earlier about how Vancouver's downtown store made consistent profits, and so did Toronto's downtown location, but almost all other locations lost money. So it seems like Canada's largest cities can support luxury retailers perhaps in part because tourists also shop for luxury goods when they visit, but Canada's second-tier cities cannot.

I've heard from a few people over the years that the Vancouver location sold more than all of the other Canadian locations combined.

Ron.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by C3YVR

Hudson pulled out of the Pacific Place deal in September, the mostly empty mall is now advertising space available for pop-ups and mom/pop shops on Facebook.

Thanks. That's depressing.

[theKB]

With CF working with Eataly and their Canadian expansion to Sherway Gardens in Toronto, I wonder if they demised the space and put a Eataly flagship there would work. One can dream… Especially after the let down at the post (city market and a Joseph Richards food hall).

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by theKB

With CF working with Eataly and their Canadian expansion to Sherway Gardens in Toronto, I wonder if they demised the space and put a Eataly flagship there would work. One can dream… Especially after the let down at the post (city market and a Joseph Richards food hall).

Oh, that's interesting.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Oh, that's interesting.

Weston is a minority investor in Eataly so you assume they could have snagged it for the Post with City Market opening there?

Eataly has also been looking at the Vancouver market according to another source, and a deal has yet to be signed as finding space is a challenge given lease rates. Eataly has been looking primarily in the downtown Vancouver market and it is unknown if it will end up opening in the city. Retail Insider also interviewed Eataly founder and owner Oscar Farinetti in 2019 and at the time, he said that Montreal was also a potential target for a location if space could be found.

https://retail-insider.com/retail-inside...-toronto-location-at-cf-sherway-gardens/

[officedweller]

The Post is probably a bit out of the way - same could apply to Simons at The Post.

I do wonder, though, whether Eataly is yet another high end business that would eventually fail in Vancouver?
Vancouver has a very competitive restaurant market.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

have you been Westlake centre recently? I went in 2020 and it was pretty bad. Nothing much at all. They had a Zara, Nordstrom Rack and a Saks off 5th and most of it was pretty empty. You have to walk through it to get to the monorail but thats about it. It was doing better than Pacific Place a block or so away, that mall is very bleak, it was once a great mall to shop at.

I am sorry to hear about the Westlake Center going downhill in that way. For a "role model" (just an idea), what about The Crystal Court in Minneapolis? That looks bright, crisp, airy, and elegant.
Could the current Nordstrom building be converted into something like that, and if so, could it house a major retail anchor tenant? Just asking. (Of course, it is the IDS Center lobby, so maybe it's too airy to accommodate a large retailer. But it never hurts to ask, I rather think. Perhaps the PC building itself could be enlarged, but that's a challenge, too.

https://ids-center.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/after-2.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/ids-center.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IDS2021_125F.jpg?w=1042&h=695&ssl=1

[dreambrother808]

Holts should move to the Nordstrom location and PC should redevelop the current Holts.

Let’s go back to the atrium!

[dreambrother808]

Nordstrom made the same mistake as Target: too much too soon. They should have dipped their toes in the water with a Vancouver location and then built strategically from there rather than sinking all of this capital in from the jump.

[jollyburger]

Lowe's just completed their exit from Canada as well.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/lowe-s-canada-to-now-operate-as-rona-inc--852675572.html

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Nordstrom made the same mistake as Target: too much too soon. They should have dipped their toes in the water with a Vancouver location and then built strategically from there rather than sinking all of this capital in from the jump.

No, they should have bought out Holts and just brought up Rack to compliment the Holts locations.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The Post is probably a bit out of the way - same could apply to Simons at The Post.

I do wonder, though, whether Eataly is yet another high end business that would eventually fail in Vancouver?
Vancouver has a very competitive restaurant market.

I wouldn't necessarily call Eataly "high end". Definitely positioned as upper-middle-tier, but, in all honesty, the locations I've been to have had a wide range of products and an equally wide range of prices. There is a lot of stuff in their stores that is priced the same as a regular grocery store, but it's the selection and novelty that brings people in. Obviously prices would be higher here due to the "Canada tax" plus local rents and general costs, but I personally have never walked into an Eataly and gone "damn that's pricey!"

A place where you can go for a casual glass or two of wine, and a plate of burrata and prosciutto, then mosey around and choose from 100 different types of tomato sauce, olive oil, balsamic vinegar, dry pasta etc. would do very well in Vancouver. Maybe the sit-down restaurant portions seen in other cities could be scaled back in a location here, with more focus on the "grocery" side of the food hall. But a store the right size, with the right assortment, would do just fine here IMO.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by bluefox

I wouldn't necessarily call Eataly "high end". Definitely positioned as upper-middle-tier, but, in all honesty, the locations I've been to have had a wide range of products and an equally wide range of prices. There is a lot of stuff in their stores that is priced the same as a regular grocery store, but it's the selection and novelty that brings people in. Obviously prices would be higher here due to the "Canada tax" plus local rents and general costs, but I personally have never walked into an Eataly and gone "damn that's pricey!"

A place where you can go for a casual glass or two of wine, and a plate of burrata and prosciutto, then mosey around and choose from 100 different types of tomato sauce, olive oil, balsamic vinegar, dry pasta etc. would do very well in Vancouver. Maybe the sit-down restaurant portions seen in other cities could be scaled back in a location here, with more focus on the "grocery" side of the food hall. But a store the right size, with the right assortment, would do just fine here IMO.

This is my experience too, prices are pretty average - have been to the location in Toronto and Chicago as well as Germany and Italy. All were great experiences and by no means pricey, no more that whole foods. Food options were average prices as well. I think the kicker for them is they open under a restaurant license so they can retail alcohol as well (similar to Luigi and sons or the other stores that have opened as extensions of restaurants).

Toronto offers retail of wine and beer and this is an essential part of the eataly experience which in BC seems to beyond the scope of our supermarkets and by extension archaic rules. Chicago stores offer beer and wine at a little stand to sip on as you browse the offerings. It would be a great addition to our downtown core and would surely be a hit. I just wonder if this would pencil with our proportionally high costs vs population against other large centres with eataly locations.

[SpongeG]

I've only been to the Eataly in Las Vegas, and it was weird, perhaps not a proper full location, I didn't see what people rave about it, you are basically forced to walk through it to get to the casino. Just a grocery store with a restaurant?

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Nordstrom made the same mistake as Target: too much too soon. They should have dipped their toes in the water with a Vancouver location and then built strategically from there rather than sinking all of this capital in from the jump.

I don't think Nordstrom was doing that badly here, they are having problems in the states and it seems to please investors to make profits, etc the easy thing to was close their Canada division. Walmart had to do the same in its expansion into Europe. Nordstrom tried to go private a few years back but failed in that attempt.