Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Me too - I see Quebeckers as the most transactional and self-interested voting group in Canada.

Which explains their fickle herd instinct voting pattern of rushing from one parti-du-jour to the next.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

We have sarcastic terms about several European nations

For some reason, this doesn't surprise me in the least!

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

No specific term for the Canadians, they are not important enough for the French.

Checkmate!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Which explains their fickle herd instinct voting pattern of rushing from one parti-du-jour to the next.

Being the black sheep Frenchies in the land of anglos, we'd arguably get fucked over even more often than we already are if we didn't do that!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

The "breakfast of champions" I've heard the most reference to in Canada post-2010 would be Pepsi and cigarettes, although in my experience this is a more broadly blue-collar thing and not specifically associated with Francophones or Quebec (although almost certainly derived from older Quebec references).

Beer and pizza left over from the night before...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Beer and pizza left over from the night before...

Definitely exists out there, but also not specifically identified with Canadian francophones.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Me too - I see Quebeckers as the most transactional and self-interested voting group in Canada.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Which explains their fickle herd instinct voting pattern of rushing from one parti-du-jour to the next.

Yep. On that one, you two are right, Architype is wrong.

Quebec often gets accused of voting too much for its own interests (for valid reasons IMO), so it's strange to see people trying to argue the opposite.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Definitely exists out there, but also not specifically identified with Canadian francophones.

I would suspect it exists (or existed) more among anglophones, given the reference to the American-based Wheaties ad campaign. It's really the only version of "breakfast of champions" that I'm familiar with. I would have thought that it may have made its way into the Francophone sphere of existence due to exposure to American/anglo TV, especially among young university students... or others who experienced the 'party life' in their youth.

Unlike many here, I'm always looking for stuff that we have in common vs stuff that drives us apart...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I would suspect it exists (or existed) more among anglophones, given the reference to the American-based Wheaties ad campaign. It's really the only version of "breakfast of champions" that I'm familiar with. I would have thought that it may have made its way into the Francophone sphere of existence due to exposure to American/anglo TV, especially among young university students... or others who experienced the 'party life' in their youth.

Unlike many here, I'm always looking for stuff that we have in common vs stuff that drives us apart...

I am aware of it personally but have never heard Québécois reference that. Though I am sure some are aware but it's not a mainstream thing here.

For me personally I get the usual reference but it always brings to mind some crude tattoos some military guys I knew had, where you could see a dude's lips and tongue in close proximity to a certain female body part. And it was titled "The Breakfast of Champions".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am aware of it personally but have never heard Québécois reference that. Though I am sure some are aware but it's not a mainstream thing here.

For me personally I get the usual reference but it always brings to mind some crude tattoos some military guys I knew had, where you could see a dude's lips and tongue in close proximity to a certain female body part. And it was titled "The Breakfast of Champions".

Glad I haven't seen that. I would be forever scarred!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Glad I haven't seen that. I would be forever scarred!

If ever you mention it again, keep in mind what image I will visualize in my head!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Polls out today show that Legault and the CAQ's popularity are still holding strong.

The PQ is the second-most popular party in Quebec now, and support for sovereignty is at 38%.

Some observers are noting that support for sovereignty was around 40% in the period just before the 1995 referendum campaign kicked off.

On a side note, a recent article in Le Figaro described Legault's CAQ as a "coallition nationaliste". I'm not sure that's how it's described in Canada.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

It’s mostly Justin who did the work, but PSPP definitely gets credit too.

Honestly I think Justin Trudeau (and probably most of the ROC) are thinking "yeah, yeah, they whine, support for independence rises, but in the end they'll always be too afraid to make the big leap forward and plunge in the unknown". Québec is taken for granted, more or less.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're getting it - this is good!

But seriously, don't know what his point is.

Quebecers have voted against independence (sovereignty) on two occasions already.

Is this voting for or against their own "best interests", in his mind?

I see voting separatist as voting against their best interests, if that is in fact the real agenda. I don't think voting to break up this country is in anyone's best interest, including theirs. Yes, they voted against independence, but just barely, and the next time it may not be so, and it will be too late to stop. Just like Brexit, it will turn out to be full of false promise (wait and see what happens to the UK now.) The fact that this is even on the table is evidence enough that the mentality is prevalent, you don't see other provinces or US states (except Alberta fringe) even considering this as a legitimate Overton window option. The question of whether Canada could or should be restructured more loosely is something we could consider though.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Architype

I see voting separatist as voting against their best interests, if that is in fact the real agenda. I don't think voting to break up this country is in anyone's best interest, including theirs.

"Best interest" is sort of in the eye of the beholder though. If it's worth it to them, it's worth it to them, even if everyone else says that it's not. Whatever economic or quality-of-life indicators you can point to only really matter to the extent that they care about those things - and even then, balanced against how much importance they place on geopolitical independence.

I think in practice it would be too complicated to be worth it (even when they're the ones deciding what that means), thinking of things like NATO/NORAD, various trade agreements, practical issues in terms of the movement of goods and people, etc.

[Acajack]

As usual the simple answer is how much is it worth it to people for Canada to remain independent from the US?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As usual the simple answer is how much is it worth it to people for Canada to remain independent from the US?

I absolutely detest the idea of Canada being broken up due to the desire of one province wanting to become a sovereign nation. However if it happens becoming part of the US is probably our best option (at least for the Atlantic Provinces).

FWIW, I am so tired of the perceived threat that I have become somewhat ambivalent about it. I would strongly hate Quebec, and anything associated with it, if this ever happens, though. Breaking up the country is an unforgivable action from my perspective.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I absolutely detest the idea of Canada being broken up due to the desire of one province wanting to become a sovereign nation. However if it happens becoming part of the US is probably our best option (at least for the Atlantic Provinces).

FWIW, I am so tired of the perceived threat that I have become somewhat ambivalent about it. I would strongly hate Quebec, and anything associated with it, if this ever happens, though. Breaking up the country is an unforgivable action from my perspective.

What if the price to keep Québec in was to give it more leeway to do its own thing inside the federation?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I would strongly hate Quebec, and anything associated with it, if this ever happens, though. Breaking up the country is an unforgivable action from my perspective.

This is probably what a Brit would have written in regard to Ireland back in 1913, and yet now they are best friends.

[LightingGuy]

I'm moving my post here from the Montreal-Toronto thread, since it's more relevant to this thread.

"My take is that it is pretty obvious that Bill 101 hurt MTL. It's not the only factor, but it had some effect. That said, even though I personally disagree with the bill, I understand why they did it.

Not MTL, but my brother lives in QC and I've visited. My wife and I also stayed in Gatineau a few weeks ago. It really is a different world. I wonder if it felt that "different" before, or if it's as a result of the bill. As soon as you cross over from Ottawa and walk around, everyone speaks French. Also, just going into stores/restaurants/businesses, things seem to be a lot more laidback, and (without trying to be insulting) less conscientious.

A really interesting thing I noticed is how many immigrants there are from other French speaking countries - Haiti, a few African countries. I can't recall the exact stats, but I looked it up and the percentage of French speaking immigrants in Gatineau (and I'm sure the rest of Quebec) has exploded over the last 20 years. I think it's awesome that Canada is able to offer that to other French speaking countries - a French speaking developed region that will welcome you, so you can have access to a better life without the language barrier."
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9881430&postcount=294

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

What if the price to keep Québec in was to give it more leeway to do its own thing inside the federation?

I would support more provincial autonomy in general- for all provinces - but I would be opposed to giving Quebec unique autonomous rights, even if thats necessary to keep Quebec inside Canada.

My mindset is: this is Canada. Take it or leave it. If any province wants to leave, the door is open.