Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 215

lio45 · #**4281** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

... taken down statues of multiple historical figures (including Queen Victoria in Winnipeg)

If they also did that in Victoria BC (which they may well have!), it would be hilarious. The city's name gets 10000x more visibility than any statue.

Same thing with any Champlain statue in Montreal -- the biggest and busiest bridge connecting Montreal to the mainland dwarfs the entirety of all the statues of the guy on the planet in existence right now.

Hali87 · #**4282** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 9:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Global audience? You mean European and North American audience I suppose. That's just 1/8th of the world. The Indians, who are more numerous than Europe and North America combined, largely support the Russians.

India is famous for the large number of languages spoken there, and of these many languages, English is the second most widely-spoken and one of only two that is official at the national level, and of those two is the only one that is widely spoken in a large number of other countries. There are more English-speakers in India than there are in the UK, Canada, and Australia combined.

On top of that I'm nearly positive that his speech would have just been translated into basically every other language for which media exist, both in real-time and as transcriptions immediately after the fact. Isn't that how globally-relevant speeches usually work, regardless of what language is being spoken?

Quote:

Large parts of Africa also support more Russia than the Western point of view.

English is widely spoken in much of Africa, and without knowing exactly which countries you mean here, I'd hazard a guess that English is the primary language in several of them.

lio45 · #**4283** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 9:12 PM**

Also, I'm pretty sure Indians don't "support the Russians". Only a handful of countries actually do (Nicaragua, Syria, Belarus, North Korea...)

India is neutral, but likely more Western than Sinorussian, if it had to pick a side.

Hali87 · #**4284** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Also, I'm pretty sure Indians don't "support the Russians". Only a handful of countries actually do (Nicaragua, Syria, Belarus, North Korea...)

India is neutral, but likely more Western than Sinorussian, if it had to pick a side.

That's the impression I get as well. India-as-a-country doesn't seem very interested in getting directly involved if they can avoid it. If the general population there is definitively Pro-Russia/Anti-Ukraine I'm not really seeing that in any significant way (maybe they're really sneaky about it?)

New Brisavoine · #**4285** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Also, I'm pretty sure Indians don't "support the Russians".

India is neutral, but likely more Western than Sinorussian, if it had to pick a side.

Wrong guess.

India regularly abstains at the UN in all the votes condemning Russia, and Modi + the Indian foreign minister are blatantly pro-Russian, always finding excuses for Russia.

lio45 · #**4286** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 10:14 PM**

Doesn't disprove my guess at all. You'd have to produce a poll in which Indians say at ~51% that the USA is an adversary, ~29% that it is a rival, and ~15% that it is a necessary partner.

For all we know, Indians consider everyone a potential friend. I bet at least 50% of Indians would ALSO say that the Western World are generally allies.

MolsonExport · #**4287** Posted **Feb 25, 2023, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

As if it's somehow a bad thing that a dude in Paris reads Québec newspapers...

Read that with a clear head.

Somebody is cranky today. BTW I don't drink (aside from maybe one or two glasses of wine per month).

I actually do read French Newspapers from time to time, as I regularly spend weeks in France, pretty much every year.

Read that with a cloudy head.

Acajack · #**4288** Posted **Mar 1, 2023, 4:10 PM**

Polls out today show that Legault and the CAQ's popularity are still holding strong.

The PQ is the second-most popular party in Quebec now, and support for sovereignty is at 38%.

Some observers are noting that support for sovereignty was around 40% in the period just before the 1995 referendum campaign kicked off.

lio45 · #**4289** Posted **Mar 1, 2023, 5:08 PM**

It’s mostly Justin who did the work, but PSPP definitely gets credit too.

Acajack · #**4290** Posted **Mar 1, 2023, 8:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

It’s mostly Justin who did the work, but PSPP definitely gets credit too.

The current era is also a very fertile one in terms of flashpoints appearing along faultlines (both old and new) between the various groups in society.

We'll see how it goes but there are already some signs that this could revive the old Quebec-Canada French-English drama.

kwoldtimer · #**4291** Posted **Mar 1, 2023, 9:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

The current era is also a very fertile one in terms of flashpoints appearing along faultlines (both old and new) between the various groups in society.

We'll see how it goes but there are already some signs that this could revive the old Quebec-Canada French-English drama.

“This” being?

Acajack · #**4292** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 3:35 AM**

More tidbits from the poll:

For the first time in a long time more francophones are for the Oui than for the Non: 48 to 41% with the rest undecided or refusing to answer.

The PLQ is at 4% support among francophones.

Loco101 · #**4293** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 6:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Polls out today show that Legault and the CAQ's popularity are still holding strong.

The PQ is the second-most popular party in Quebec now, and support for sovereignty is at 38%.

Some observers are noting that support for sovereignty was around 40% in the period just before the 1995 referendum campaign kicked off.

Some interesting things from that Léger poll:

-the federal NDP is leading among Quebecers aged 18-34

-only the PQ has most of their supporters (85%) as being pro-sovereignty. More people who support the CAQ and even QS are against sovereignty than for it.

-the rise in support for sovereignty compared to previous polls appears to be only in males aged 55+. While this poll has support for sovereignty at 38%, 10% answered that they aren't sure or refused to answer and more people are still against sovereignty outside the Montreal and Quebec City regions.

Also worth looking at are how most Quebecers view the appointment by Trudeau of Amira Elghawaby as not being a good thing, if changes in policy are needed for Roxham Road and if using the notwithstanding clause is a good idea or not.

Source: https://legermarketing.wpenginepowered.c...23/03/Rapport-politique-Fevrier-2023.pdf

Architype · #**4294** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 6:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Polls out today show that Legault and the CAQ's popularity are still holding strong.

The PQ is the second-most popular party in Quebec now, and support for sovereignty is at 38%.

Some observers are noting that support for sovereignty was around 40% in the period just before the 1995 referendum campaign kicked off.

Unless there is something in the water, there isn't much credible evidence to make one believe that Quebecers vote any more intelligently than Americans do or Brexiters did, that is, for their best interests.

kwoldtimer · #**4295** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 1:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architype

Unless there is something in the water, there isn't much credible evidence to make one believe that Quebecers vote any more intelligently than Americans do or Brexiters did, that is, for their best interests.

Best interests as defined by non-Quebeckers?

Acajack · #**4296** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 2:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Best interests as defined by non-Quebeckers?

You're getting it - this is good!

But seriously, don't know what his point is.

Quebecers have voted against independence (sovereignty) on two occasions already.

Is this voting for or against their own "best interests", in his mind?

Acajack · #**4297** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 2:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

Some interesting things from that Léger poll:

-the federal NDP is leading among Quebecers aged 18-34

-only the PQ has most of their supporters (85%) as being pro-sovereignty. More people who support the CAQ and even QS are against sovereignty than for it.

-the rise in support for sovereignty compared to previous polls appears to be only in males aged 55+. While this poll has support for sovereignty at 38%, 10% answered that they aren't sure or refused to answer and more people are still against sovereignty outside the Montreal and Quebec City regions.

Not too surprising in the case of the CAQ as its official party line is that it wants Quebec to remain in Canada. As for QS which is supposedly a sovereignist party, its commitment to independence is always an object of discussion - most don't really believe it. Anyway, it's still odd how the percentage of sovereignists in the CAQ and QS is always about the same. Don't if that says more about the CAQ or more about QS though.

As for older people being most of the boost in support for sovereignty, that's interesting as well. I'd put it down to people seeing this as their nation's last chance before they pass on, and maybe before the "nation" passes on as well.

Young people don't feel the urgency, and their opposition or indifference to it isn't necessarily due to a heightened degree of Canadian patriotism for most of them. I believe there is a pretty high percentage of undecided or "no opinion" responses among young people.

Québécois young people today are definitely less nationalistic (in the Québécois sense) than I've ever seen them in my lifetime.

lio45 · #**4298** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 2:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architype

Unless there is something in the water, there isn't much credible evidence to make one believe that Quebecers vote any more intelligently than Americans do or Brexiters did, that is, for their best interests.

Add Canadians to that list: under the current direction, we're projected to be dead last in growth among all developed countries on every possible time frame. "Our" choices caused even more damage than Brexit and Trump! (Trump actually did significant damage on the immigration front: the U.S. used to be the destination for all the top talent, less so post-Trump.)

lio45 · #**4299** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 2:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're getting it - this is good!

But seriously, don't know what his point is.

Quebecers have voted against independence (sovereignty) on two occasions already.

Is this voting for or against their own "best interests", in his mind?

The simple, functional beauty of democracy is that people vote for what they prefer, not for what Architype prefers.

kwoldtimer · #**4300** Posted **Mar 2, 2023, 2:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're getting it - this is good!

But seriously, don't know what his point is.

Quebecers have voted against independence (sovereignty) on two occasions already.

Is this voting for or against their own "best interests", in his mind?

Me too - I see Quebeckers as the most transactional and self-interested voting group in Canada.