Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It always chaps my ass to see piles of seats and other stuff at old arenas like the Coliseum headed to the landfill. I recall when CanadInns Stadium was for sale they were charging a pile for old seats and artificial turf fragments. Some people bought it, but most of it probably ended up in the dump... they didn't sell anywhere near as much as they could have with the high prices they were charging.

I don't get it, why not just charge a nominal amount (like $20 a pop) and let people haul it off? It's a public asset headed for the dump anyway.

They could do a "pay what you can" and give half the proceeds to charity. Sell or give some to a high-school or something. That's what the NAC did when it changed the seating in Southam Hall.

https://nac-cna.ca/en/stories/story/southam-hall-seats-donated-to-three-theatres

If they at least sent them to the scrap yard for recycling.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I'm sure they will be done on time. I wonder what the fine would be from the league if they were not able to get things ready for opening day.

42 days to get it done. I think it's easier to tell if a new stadium/arena will be done in time with only a little over a month left than it is with a renovation.

I'm sure that if they're going to face troubles getting it done in time, we'll be hearing about it very soon.

[TorontoDrew]

As long as they get enough done like the new Ball pen and put all the season ticket holders seats back I'm sure they can finish up any loose ends even during the start of regular season.

[Brisket17]

Those photos of the dome were taken on January 17th - a lot of the 500 level seating is already installed, and the bullpen sections are much more defined now.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Brisket17

Those photos of the dome were taken on January 17th - a lot of the 500 level seating is already installed, and the bullpen sections are much more defined now.

I've been trying to find more recent pics.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It always chaps my ass to see piles of seats and other stuff at old arenas like the Coliseum headed to the landfill. I recall when CanadInns Stadium was for sale they were charging a pile for old seats and artificial turf fragments. Some people bought it, but most of it probably ended up in the dump... they didn't sell anywhere near as much as they could have with the high prices they were charging.

I don't get it, why not just charge a nominal amount (like $20 a pop) and let people haul it off? It's a public asset headed for the dump anyway.

Actually, they did dismantle and sell most of the seats, items and other misc. items from the locker room etc.

The seats sold very, very well and were $150-300/pop.

[esquire]

^ It looks like there were still stacks of them left in some of the pictures.

[Coldrsx]

If I recall, they only sold the ones not damaged, soiled, or in disrepair, but yes, there are a bunch remaining.

[WhipperSnapper]

The time and effort to sell a stadium full of seats at $20 a pop is huuge. I doubt the alternative for seats with life remaining in them is the garbage heap. In my experience, there's always a guy with inside connections to flip large bundles willing to buy the whole lot for a nominal amount allowing you to cross them off your list.

[J.OT13]

Sounds like some of the bidders for the Ottawa Senators aren't interested in LeBreton Flats. This according to Bill Daly on the Bob McCown podcast. That would be another major blow to the NCC, after trying twice to get an arena at LeBreton over the last 6 years.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/dal...d-arena-plans-set-up-fascinating-spring/

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The time and effort to sell a stadium full of seats at $20 a pop is huuge. I doubt the alternative for seats with life remaining in them is the garbage heap. In my experience, there's always a guy with inside connections to flip large bundles willing to buy the whole lot for a nominal amount allowing you to cross them off your list.

When CanadInns Stadium was closed they just piled up stacks of that stuff in the concourse. Once the seats and turf were removed, it was about as much effort as running a thrift store.

I have seen a few of the old stadium seats end up in small town arenas, but very few considering that there were thousands and thousands of those things.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Sounds like some of the bidders for the Ottawa Senators aren't interested in LeBreton Flats. This according to Bill Daly on the Bob McCown podcast. That would be another major blow to the NCC, after trying twice to get an arena at LeBreton over the last 6 years.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/dal...d-arena-plans-set-up-fascinating-spring/

At yesterday's pressor in Edmonton, Bettman said that there are '13-15 individuals and groups' doing their due diligence right now and are 'on track' for bid submissions by mid-year.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

At yesterday's pressor in Edmonton, Bettman said that there are '13-15 individuals and groups' doing their due diligence right now and are 'on track' for bid submissions by mid-year.

Mid-year!? Holly crap! The timeline keeps being pushed back. At one point, they said January, then February, March. Now mid-year?

Of course, they want to do their due-diligence, let everyone evaluate the situation fully in order to place the best bid, but don't set unrealistic timelines... Are we talking about the sale of an NHL team or a transit project.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Mid-year!? Holly crap! The timeline keeps being pushed back. At one point, they said January, then February, March. Now mid-year?

Of course, they want to do their due-diligence, let everyone evaluate the situation fully in order to place the best bid, but don't set unrealistic timelines... Are we talking about the sale of an NHL team or a transit project.

I’d imagine that a big part of it is whittling out the groups that don’t want to move forward at Lebreton Flats, which I would assume is within the NHL’s best interest since it will increase the franchise value if the Senators end up owning the arena project outright, as well as new potential revenue streams if hotel/residential development becomes part of the arena like what was shown in the renderings. Maximizing team-only franchise value is also probably a factor.

Setting a benchmark franchise value for a mid-market NHL team also has lots of implications for future league expansion. Last December it was indicated that the NHL is potentially mulling expansion again after seeing the massive increase in revenue generation that Vegas and Seattle have had for the league. Toronto 2, Austin, and Houston are flagged as the purported favourites at the moment - mainly Austin because it doesn’t have a Big 4 team yet and it is growing fast.

If the Senators sell for upwards of $700M, four new teams equals a direct injection of at least $2.8B into the league, and if the teams are successful revenue generators like Seattle/Vegas, revenue would increase by around $280M/year.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

I’d imagine that a big part of it is whittling out the groups that don’t want to move forward at Lebreton Flats, which I would assume is within the NHL’s best interest since it will increase the franchise value if the Senators end up owning the arena project outright, as well as new potential revenue streams if hotel/residential development becomes part of the arena like what was shown in the renderings. Maximizing team-only franchise value is also probably a factor.

This is almost certainly what they're doing. When you have as many groups interested as the Senators do it's simply a matter of doing due diligence and weeding out strong candidates from others. The opposite situation, one where there are many bids but the NHL quickly snaps for one bid, would be a bit of a red flag.

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Setting a benchmark franchise value for a mid-market NHL team also has lots of implications for future league expansion. Last December it was indicated that the NHL is potentially mulling expansion again after seeing the massive increase in revenue generation that Vegas and Seattle have had for the league. Toronto 2, Austin, and Houston are flagged as the purported favourites at the moment - mainly Austin because it doesn’t have a Big 4 team yet and it is growing fast.

MLS in Austin is doing quite well, all things considered. I know some will scoff at the idea of MLS being in the same realm of Big 4, but the entire notion of Big 4 is being mostly thrown away now that there's the NFL and everyone else. I'm fairly certain MLS is closer to NHL than the NHL is to the other three. Anyway. The NHL was wise to get into Vegas early and have reaped the rewards of doing so. There's still a chance for Austin but i'd be surprised if they bite on that over somewhere like San Diego.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

I’d imagine that a big part of it is whittling out the groups that don’t want to move forward at Lebreton Flats, which I would assume is within the NHL’s best interest since it will increase the franchise value if the Senators end up owning the arena project outright, as well as new potential revenue streams if hotel/residential development becomes part of the arena like what was shown in the renderings. Maximizing team-only franchise value is also probably a factor.

Setting a benchmark franchise value for a mid-market NHL team also has lots of implications for future league expansion. Last December it was indicated that the NHL is potentially mulling expansion again after seeing the massive increase in revenue generation that Vegas and Seattle have had for the league. Toronto 2, Austin, and Houston are flagged as the purported favourites at the moment - mainly Austin because it doesn’t have a Big 4 team yet and it is growing fast.

Hope that's the case. There really nowhere in Ottawa better suited for an arena than LeBreton. Two transit lines, three directions + just across the bridge from Gatineau. Various entertainment districts easily accessible within a 5 minute walk or O-Train ride.

How many teams can a league get before it's too much? We want to be able to play every team at least once, while keeping the multi-game rivalries. Hope Quebec City won't be passed-up again, but it probably will considering the high-cost of a franchise nowadays. A second Toronto area franchise would be welcome.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hope that's the case. There really nowhere in Ottawa better suited for an arena than LeBreton. Two transit lines, three directions + just across the bridge from Gatineau. Various entertainment districts easily accessible within a 5 minute walk or O-Train ride.

How many teams can a league get before it's too much? We want to be able to play every team at least once, while keeping the multi-game rivalries. Hope Quebec City won't be passed-up again, but it probably will considering the high-cost of a franchise nowadays. A second Toronto area franchise would be welcome.

I don't think there is even one entertainment district (yet) within a five-minute walk of where the arena will be located, but yes this is still THE location. Can't be anywhere else.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

MLS in Austin is doing quite well, all things considered. I know some will scoff at the idea of MLS being in the same realm of Big 4, but the entire notion of Big 4 is being mostly thrown away now that there's the NFL and everyone else. I'm fairly certain MLS is closer to NHL than the NHL is to the other three. Anyway. The NHL was wise to get into Vegas early and have reaped the rewards of doing so. There's still a chance for Austin but i'd be surprised if they bite on that over somewhere like San Diego.

MLS doesn't soak up near as much money from the marketplace as NBA/MLB/NHL, though, to say nothing of the NFL. If there was another "Big 4" team in Austin it would probably make a NHL team doubtful, especially when you consider that Austin isn't that big and the U of T probably also takes a significant share of fan spending, sponsorship dollars, etc.

On the surface Houston is a more appealing market in Texas but I guess getting a NHL team into Austin probably locks out the NBA. Although that probably wasn't likely to happen anyway given that there are already two NBA teams in the general region anyway (Houston and San Antonio).

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

MLS doesn't soak up near as much money from the marketplace as NBA/MLB/NHL, though, to say nothing of the NFL.

Really depends on the market. There are some markets where MLS has a big impact on local sports - Portland, Seattle, Toronto, Atlanta, and increasingly Los Angeles.

Originally Posted by esquire

On the surface Houston is a more appealing market in Texas but I guess getting a NHL team into Austin probably locks out the NBA. Although that probably wasn't likely to happen anyway given that there are already two NBA teams in the general region anyway (Houston and San Antonio).

And Dallas. Texas is a big state but four NBA teams there seems a bit excessive, although I guess they've had four in California for a long time now.

[MalcolmTucker]

I imagine that the NCC and the bidders are finding out fast how uneconomic event centres are to build and run. And how much development needs to go forward to provide a $200 million + cash injection. You have inflation, and interest rates sloshing around, and you have the NCC wanting assurance that the event centre is actually going forward before a bunch of land is handed over for development.