Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[jedikermit]

For the most part, I like the "vision" of more green, I like the idea of developing the empty parking lot blocks west of Temple Square, I like the idea of removing the Church Office Building (but like it more if it's replaced with something architecturally interesting and tall). Destroying more of our historic building stock is a no from me, and I'm guessing, from The Church. Although their own record on preservation is very hit and miss.

I'm guessing this outside consulting firm was told "the sky's the limit, go all-out" and then they went for it.

[RC14]

It's definitely a radical proposal.
I like what I see in the rendering more than when it was explained.
I don't think moving the Assembly hall is necessary or a good idea. I don't like the idea of removing the Church Office building but could be persuaded, especially if replaced with something better. The old Hotel Utah looks like a building I would care about but after having worked there, I am indifferent, especially if, again, replaced with something better.

I also don't like the idea of closing more streets. West Temple and 200 W wouldn't be too much of a loss. Especially considering you would be able to walk through those blocks anyway but 300 W and State Street are a no go.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by RC14

I also don't like the idea of closing more streets. West Temple and 200 W wouldn't be too much of a loss. Especially considering you would be able to walk through those blocks anyway but 300 W and State Street are a no go.

...I don't think it matters because I don't see it happening, but their plans and renderings have 300 W and State Street (and North Temple) uninterrupted, they go on under block-long tunnels that are called "land bridges" in the proposal. So those streets continue to carry traffic.

[i2theSKY]

Looks like there are several concepts. On the Reddit forum one of the plans shown retained all current buildings east of the Temple. That is a plan I could get on board with. I like that it adds much needed walkable green space while eliminating parking lots. Interesting group of towers on the Triad block. It would make the Vivint area feel more connected to downtown. Hard to say if any of this will actually happen but its interesting to look at and think about.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by SLCHenry

I was happy that the city and the church were starting to separate but I guess not after all. Wish they would go to Provo instead.

I'm not LDS but I don't agree with this. I also don't think they would ever consider moving to Provo.

Like it or not, SLC was founded by Brigham Young and the Mormon Pioneers. It's a unique heritage and it brings millions of members, workers, and visitors downtown. Abandoning "The Place" in favor of Stepford Suburbia down in Utah County would be giving up on that history. On top of it being bad for SLC, it would be bad PR for the Church.

[meman]

Does anyone on this thread know if the proposed 28 floor residential tower at 4th south and West Temple has been delayed? I thought is would have started construction by now. Any info on construction start date?

[Orlando]

Where did those renderings appear? I didn't see anything in the link of the temple area. I do agree that they shouldn't tear down the Hotel Utah and the Assembly Hall...also The Tabernacle.

[mattreedah]

I think they have the right idea with many of these plans. I actually think the best thing the church could do is not dedicate the SLC temple for ordinance work when they are finished with the seismic upgrades. Open it to the public for education and tours. I say that as an lds member. I think that would do more for goodwill and tourism than anything.

[Jbash]

What's that big building on the west end with the atrium looking thing supposed to be, does anyone know?

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

I think they have the right idea with many of these plans. I actually think the best thing the church could do is not dedicate the SLC temple for ordinance work when they are finished with the seismic upgrades. Open it to the public for education and tours. I say that as an lds member. I think that would do more for goodwill and tourism than anything.

I’ve been touting this tour idea to Mormons for years. A common objection I hear is that the temple is a “living” structure and regular ordinances should continue there forever.

I think the real truth is that there’s something inside that thing and we aren’t ready or supposed to see it. Jk sort of

[i-215]

Part of how we can know how serious the church is about this— watch the sidewalk plans once the temple is done. If it is the round sidewalk, with a diagonal one jutting off toward the northwest? Then we know they are serious.

Honestly, this screams MEGABLOCK. This is Jordan Landing. Put it as a greenfield development someplace else? I really like it. But within the framework of the existing downtown? I don't like it at all. (One page literally says a top priority for guests is "A convenient parking space"!)

When NuSkin stole a city street in Provo, I was told it would make the city better. It didn't. When the church stole another street for the Provo City Center Temple, I was told the same lie. Downtown Provo kind of sucks south of Center because there is no 24/7 pedestrian access. It's a blood clot. Those blocks are DEAD.

Anything north of South Temple DIES with this plan.

Nobody will want to walk on State Street anymore than they want to walk underneath the convention center. The church will not provide a 24/7 easement on the other blocks.

-----

The monorail (while insisting it must not feel like an amusement park) is a nice touch...

[meman]

No one answered my previous question, so i will ask it again. Does anyone know if the proposed 28 floor Tower at 4th South and West Temple has been delayed? Wasent is supposed to have started construction by now?

[VelvetElvis]

It would be great to have some of those proposed features, but the design is a terrible idea even if it's simply an expensive exercise in broadcasting a vision. Why not work within the fabric of those blocks with minimal demolition? Make a better effort to incorporate the current into your future vision! But LDS Corp. is consistent. They have a history of wiping the slate clean. In this design, that clocktower, for me, is the epitome of their approach. No doubt it would be tall, impressive, and relatively well constructed. But it would be vapid and without content. And if business continues as usual, it'll be torn down 50 years later. Bloom is right, LDS is the American religion and it tends to embody some of the worst characteristics of our culture. That austere COB (with all of its flaws) is a far more meaningful structure. Keep it! Keep the JSMB! When I think of SLC, those two structures are towards the top of my list.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by meman

No one answered my previous question, so i will ask it again. Does anyone know if the proposed 28 floor Tower at 4th South and West Temple has been delayed? Wasent is supposed to have started construction by now?

It seems to be on hold unfortunately. No word from the developer, no permits as of now. That lot is cursed.

And as it pertains to this temple square thing, It looks gaudy and would definitely not help the LDS' image as it just flaunts excess wealth.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by VelvetElvis

It would be great to have some of those proposed features, but the design is a terrible idea even if it's simply an expensive exercise in broadcasting a vision. Why not work within the fabric of those blocks with minimal demolition? Make a better effort to incorporate the current into your future vision! But LDS Corp. is consistent. They have a history of wiping the slate clean. In this design, that clocktower, for me, is the epitome of their approach. No doubt it would be tall, impressive, and relatively well constructed. But it would be vapid and without content. And if business continues as usual, it'll be torn down 50 years later. Bloom is right, LDS is the American religion and it tends to embody some of the worst characteristics of our culture. That austere COB (with all of its flaws) is a far more meaningful structure. Keep it! Keep the JSMB! When I think of SLC, those two structures are towards the top of my list.

They better keep the JSMB. Would be a travesty if that was torn down. As time goes on this area and the other temples they’re building in SLC could serve mainly as tourist attractions opposed to a place of religious gathering. Eventually they’ll have to open them up to tourists to maintain them, similar to the Catholic Church in Europe and the churches there. Similar to Notre Dame, Vatican, churches in Spain etc. Call me crazy but history repeats itself. Religious members move around and do not necessarily stay where their religion started. Who’s to say in 500 years another part of the globe away from Utah will be where the most active LDS members reside. They would then travel to SLC to visit and sight see, as well as non-LDS members who want to see the architecture- like in Europe. With that in mind, if they do an amazing job and do not build for 50 years and tear down/rebuild, then it could be a huge tourism draw for centuries to come. Kind of like aging wine, if they build something spectacular that stands the tests of time, then I’m on board. Not sure they’ll accomplish that from what I’m seeing, but maybe they will if they compromise and keep some of the historic buildings, and fill in where there is open space (parking lots to the west).

[felixg]

Long format post incoming, feel free to skip;

I am completely lost as to how anyone, Mormon or not, on an urban development forum can see virtually anything positive whatsoever about these plans; these ideas are absolutely deranged afaic

First of all, privatizing public utility spaces like roads is completely and physically antithetical to the idea of public space being for everyone, not just those with the money to buy it, and therefore the values and rules subjugated by them. I resent what they did to main street in the 90s and I would resent this 1000x more, I genuinely don't see how this could even be legal

Secondly, excusing any of these plans as being acceptable because of the church’s place in our area’s history entirely washes over anyone else who has made SLC home in the last century. Mormons have not even been in salt lake’s majority since like the 1930s iirc? That would mean this city has technically spent more time without a dominant Mormon population than with one. If they weren’t planning on either burying or completely taking over 5+ public streets I might feel slightly differently here; what’s stopping them from expanding into marmalade and the avenues in a few decades when they’re bored and wondering what to do with another 50 billion?

Thirdly, everything about the physical design of these plans screams “take us seriously as a world religion!!”. And they’ve really managed to include it all— it’s got the Vegas/Dubai waterways, the Disneyland monorail, the fake Venetian clocktower, and of course more of that postmodern, simulated, City Creek urbanism making up the edges. It’s like if a bunch of design students were tasked with imagining what an LDS Masjid Al Haram would look like. I mean if this happens there’d literally be a matching, church-owned shopping center attached to the complex’s south side, this is beyond parody lol

I earnestly believe that no single entity, especially a religious one with virtually no one to answer to but its own 15 heads, should be legally able to do this much change to an urban center home to millions. It would be completely insane to allow any of this to happen

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by felixg

I am completely lost as to how anyone, Mormon or not, on an urban development forum can see virtually anything positive whatsoever about these plans; these ideas are absolutely deranged afaic

First of all, privatizing public utility spaces like roads is completely and physically antithetical to the idea of public space being for everyone, not just those with the money to buy it, and therefore the values and rules subjugated by them. I resent what they did to main street in the 90s and I would resent this 1000x more, I genuinely don't see how this could even be legal

Secondly, excusing any of these plans as being acceptable because of the church’s place in our area’s history entirely washes over anyone else who has made SLC home in the last century. Mormons have not even been in salt lake’s majority since like the 1930s iirc? That would mean this city has technically spent more time without a dominant Mormon population than with one. If they weren’t planning on either burying or completely taking over 5+ public streets I might feel slightly differently here; what’s stopping them from expanding into marmalade and the avenues in a few decades when they’re bored and wondering what to do with another 50 billion?

Who are you arguing with here? No one on this forum has shown favor for giving the Church more public land.

My comment about the history of the city was responding to someone saying that the church headquarters should move to Provo. I didn't say the city should give them anything. They already own nearly all of the land in this plan except for the streets.

[John_Walker]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I'm not LDS but I don't agree with this. I also don't think they would ever consider moving to Provo.

Like it or not, SLC was founded by Brigham Young and the Mormon Pioneers. It's a unique heritage and it brings millions of members, workers, and visitors downtown. Abandoning "The Place" in favor of Stepford Suburbia down in Utah County would be giving up on that history. On top of it being bad for SLC, it would be bad PR for the Church.

Haven't multiple Mormon prophets of the past declared that the church will eventually move its HQ and everything to suburbia Independence, MO?

[UtahBison]

According to a Building Salt Lake Tweet:

"The USDOT just announced it awarded Salt Lake City with $1.97 million to study ways to minimize the divides between the east and west sides of the city. The study will include the citizen-led Rio Grande Plan, among other issues."

This is a huge step in the right direction!

[airhero]

Originally Posted by UtahBison

According to a Building Salt Lake Tweet:

"The USDOT just announced it awarded Salt Lake City with $1.97 million to study ways to minimize the divides between the east and west sides of the city. The study will include the citizen-led Rio Grande Plan, among other issues."

This is a huge step in the right direction!

Incredible news. I think this drastically improves the chance the RGP actually happens, albeit it’s still like a 2% chance.