Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[lrt's friend]

Bring it on! 500,000 tickets or bust.

• Video Link

Notice, none of the money goes toward road improvements to improve safety.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Bring it on! 500,000 tickets or bust.

Notice, none of the money goes toward road improvements to improve safety.

A woman in Calgary got two tickets at the same time in 2016. Outrageous! I’ll assume that this means you weren’t able to find any evidence that speed cameras aren’t effective in reducing speeds.

In other relevant news, notice that revenue from Ottawa’s speed cameras actually does go to road safety initiatives: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/2023/2/4/1_6259675.amp.html.

“The city of Ottawa launched the Automated Speed Enforcement Camera program in July 2020, with cameras initially installed in eight school zones. All revenue generated from the program supports Ottawa's Road Safety Action Plan, which focuses on making roads safer for all users.”

[Innsertnamehere]

Quebec actually has speed cameras on their freeway network too, unlike Ontario.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Quebec actually has speed cameras on their freeway network too, unlike Ontario.

Where speed limits reduce to 70km/h-90km/h. In Quebec, speed cameras are literally speed traps.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Quebec actually has speed cameras on their freeway network too, unlike Ontario.

There are permanent signs here and there on autoroutes that warn of speed cameras, but I've very rarely seen them.

99% of the ones I have seen have been on city streets or roads.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

A woman in Calgary got two tickets at the same time in 2016. Outrageous! I’ll assume that this means you weren’t able to find any evidence that speed cameras aren’t effective in reducing speeds.

In other relevant news, notice that revenue from Ottawa’s speed cameras actually does go to road safety initiatives: %https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/2023/2/4/1_6259675.amp.html.

“The city of Ottawa launched the Automated Speed Enforcement Camera program in July 2020, with cameras initially installed in eight school zones. All revenue generated from the program supports Ottawa's Road Safety Action Plan, which focuses on making roads safer for all users.”

I know, 500,000 tickets in a city of 1,000,000 people never becomes abuse, especially following random speed limit reductions.

The following is inevitable with anything automated and a generates frustration amongst the public. Amongst the increasing demands of modern life, we are expected to deal with false tickets issued in the thousands as well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-speeding-tickets-cancelled-due-to-error-1.6561175

We should love 'Big Brother' getting involved in everything that we do.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I know, 500,000 tickets in a city of 1,000,000 people never becomes abuse, especially following random speed limit reductions.

The following is inevitable with anything automated and a generates frustration amongst the public. Amongst the increasing demands of modern life, we are expected to deal with false tickets issued in the thousands as well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-speeding-tickets-cancelled-due-to-error-1.6561175

We should love 'Big Brother' getting involved in everything that we do.

I'm not disputing that there are frustrating aspects to they system, but the article you linked is about the city proactively cancelling tickets that were issued by an incorrectly calibrated camera, without the drivers having to do anything. Not exactly a huge bother.

I find the "Big Brother" comment to be hyperbole. No one is saying that you should love Big Brother, but what you should love is safer streets, and by the only statistical metrics I've seen, speed cameras are achieving that.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm not disputing that there are frustrating aspects to they system, but the article you linked is about the city proactively cancelling tickets that were issued by an incorrectly calibrated camera, without the drivers having to do anything. Not exactly a huge bother.

I find the "Big Brother" comment to be hyperbole. No one is saying that you should love Big Brother, but what you should love is safer streets, and by most metrics speed cameras are achieving that.

It took weeks for the city to take action on the error, so many people had to pay the fine and wait several weeks to get it back. In the current economic situation, with countless people on the financial edge, having to give the city $100++ fine for several weeks is more than a small inconvenience in many cases. I know the government. I have experienced it in other areas. They are not at all efficient in giving people's money back.

I support safer streets, but I am not so happy with using a sledge hammer approach. Given the cost of the cameras and the maintenance of the entire system including mailing out 100,000s of tickets, I expect very little of that money actually goes back to improve street safety.

As we roll out hundreds of these cameras, there will be a tipping point when there will a public backlash, which will come in various forms. A quick google search will find how a public backlash works. That is my biggest worry.

It is easy to gloss over road safety. It is very complex. What about snow clearing of both roads and sidewalks? I have seen a pedestrian problem in my neighbourhood that is worse this winter than ever before. No sense complaining about it. I have tried that and nothing happens.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It took weeks for the city to take action on the error, so many people had to pay the fine and wait several weeks to get it back. In the current economic situation, with countless people on the financial edge, having to give the city $100++ fine for several weeks is more than a small inconvenience in many cases. I know the government. I have experienced it in other areas. They are not at all efficient in giving people's money back.

I support safer streets, but I am not so happy with using a sledge hammer approach. Given the cost of the cameras and the maintenance of the entire system including mailing out 100,000s of tickets, I expect very little of that money actually goes back to improve street safety.

As we roll out hundreds of these cameras, there will be a tipping point when there will a public backlash, which will come in various forms. A quick google search will find how a public backlash works. That is my biggest worry.

It is easy to gloss over road safety. It is very complex. What about snow clearing of both roads and sidewalks? I have seen a pedestrian problem in my neighbourhood that is worse this winter than ever before. No sense complaining about it. I have tried that and nothing happens.

I don't disagree with any of this. I'd just point out that in fairness, lots of the cancelled tickets were legitimate, but the City decided to cancel all of the tickets issued by that radar.

Speed cameras aren't going to solve safety issues on their own, but good enforcement is definitely part of the picture. I don't care if the program isn't a money maker as long as it slows people down where pedestrians and kids are around.

I do get the sense that a big backlash is less likely now, given that cameras are pretty ubiquitous in most jurisdictions in Canada and Europe. If they can survive in the UCP's Alberta, my guess is that they will survive here.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Where speed limits reduce to 70km/h-90km/h. In Quebec, speed cameras are literally speed traps.

o darn.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are permanent signs here and there on autoroutes that warn of speed cameras, but I've very rarely seen them.

99% of the ones I have seen have been on city streets or roads.

There are cameras regularly on the 40 as you enter Montreal but that's where there is construction.


22, 000 tickets on St. Laurent. 60 a day suggests the speed limit is set too low. (50) The new one on King Edward will be in a 40 zone and I expect we will see much more than that even. When someone goes 40 on that stretch it's a noticeable traffic impediment.

[rocketphish]

Here's how many tickets have been issued by Ottawa speed cameras
Operational cameras were installed between July 2020 and November 2022

CBC News
Posted: Feb 25, 2023 4:00 AM EST | Last Updated: 6 hours ago



With the City of Ottawa planning to install 23 more automated speed enforcement cameras along city roads this year CBC crunched the numbers to determine just how many tickets have been doled out.

Introduced as a pilot project, the camera program was made permanent in October 2021, with plans to add between 15 and 25 new cameras each year until 2026.

In 2022, the busiest camera was on St. Laurent Boulevard between Noranda and Clarke avenues, catching 22,914 violations.

Since the first cameras were installed, the most tickets have come from the camera at Ogilvie Road between Appleford Street and Elmlea Gate, which issued 34,699 fines.

In total, 259,656 tickets have been issued as a result of the automated speed cameras in the city since the program began.

In addition to the 17 new cameras, six more that were approved for installation last year — but held up due to labour disruptions and other "unforeseen delays" — will be installed this spring, according a memo sent earlier this week to the mayor and councillors from Carol Hall, the city's associate director of traffic services.

Of the new locations, 11 are within school zones, two are near parks and others are on roads where speeding has been identified as a problem.

Fines range from $20 for exceeding the speed limit by 1 km/hto $718 for going 49 km/h over the limit.

In choosing locations, the city said it takes a "data-driven approach" that takes into account factors such as existing compliance with the posted speed limit, the prevalence of "high-end speeders" (those travelling 15 km/h or more over the speed limit), the number of collisions and the number of students walking or cycling to schools in the area.

The city also lists 77 red light camera locations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-speed-cameras-tickets-issued-1.6759754

[Richard Eade]

I think that the city should provide the monthly data for each camera, so that we can see the decrease in number of tickets issued. Not just month over month changes, but comparing the same month for previous years.

Also, it would be good to look at the traffic counts of neighbouring roads. I know a lady who habitually drives above the speed limit - not unsafely (in her opinion), but likely enough to just get a ticket. She now cuts through the neighbouring community to avoid the camera on Katimavik. It is probably not faster than staying on Katimavik and going a bit slower, but it makes her sure that she won't creep up in speed and be caught.

For every action, there are (often unconsidered) reactions.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

22, 000 tickets on St. Laurent. 60 a day suggests the speed limit is set too low. (50)

Or that motorists should slow down.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The new one on King Edward will be in a 40 zone and I expect we will see much more than that even. When someone goes 40 on that stretch it's a noticeable traffic impediment.

Great. There's no need to be rushing through what are urban areas lined with residential builds and pedestrians.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Also, it would be good to look at the traffic counts of neighbouring roads. I know a lady who habitually drives above the speed limit - not unsafely (in her opinion), but likely enough to just get a ticket. She now cuts through the neighbouring community to avoid the camera on Katimavik. It is probably not faster than staying on Katimavik and going a bit slower, but it makes her sure that she won't creep up in speed and be caught.

For every action, there are (often unconsidered) reactions.

So this woman habitually speeds on a road with schools on it, and because she apparently can't control the speed of her car, she takes a detour to smaller neighbourhood streets so she can speed there but not save herself time? That kind of makes her a bad person with very poor judgment.

I doubt that there are enough people doing that to make it a significant issue, as most drivers look for the most direct route and are capable of driving at a constant speed. But it does suggest that we want to prioritize traffic calming for these alternative routes to make cutting through less possible or at least less appealing. Also, fines should be higher for speeding on residential streets - i.e. 20 over on a 40 kmph street should be a much higher fine than 20 over on the 401.

[acottawa]

Are they really issuing tickets for going 1 km over the limit?

[YOWflier]

I got nabbed by the one on Fisher a couple months ago. I have a tendency to “default” to driving around 60km/h in many settings without much thought so it makes sense that I was clocked at 61 in the 50 zone.

Now I just avoid that area … unless I forget to in which case I set my cruise until clear. So in my case they kind of work but I don’t think they’ll be enough to crack my decades old habit.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by phil235

. . . That kind of makes her a bad person with very poor judgment. . . .

It must be nice to have no vices and have never sinned so that you can cast stones. Such a damning judgement of another, whom you have never even met, is quite remarkable.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

It must be nice to have no vices and have never sinned so that you can cast stones. Such a damning judgement of another, whom you have never even met, is quite remarkable.

Okay, admittedly I may have gone a bit far with that comment.

I get really irritated by people speeding on residential streets full of kids and pedestrians. To hear that an adult woman is deliberately choosing to take smaller residential streets so she can speed without consequence is pretty troubling. Maybe there is some justification for that behaviour, but I am struggling to guess what it could be.

[JHikka]

I'm not sure how else we're supposed to handle an anecdote about a driver so determined to avoid speed cameras that instead of doing the most logical thing (slowing down) they instead decide to weave through a residential neighbourhood to avoid them entirely other than to criticize them for their poor and (likely) more dangerous decision.