VIA Rail

[ssiguy]

HFR was nothing more than political show. It made it look like VIA & Ottawa were doing something but in reality doing next to nothing. Spending billions only to get back to the service Canadians enjoyed half a century ago is nothing to get excited about and why it has been received with a collective "blah". In some ways it made matters worse because to many it is viewed as Ottawa really not caring at all and getting serious about getting people around in a fast and sustainable way.

In short, if you are going to do it then do it right the first time. That means true high speed rail from Quebec to Windsor with minimum travel speeds of 200 km/hr except in urban zones.

The first phase should be Tor/Ott/Mon and then the second should be extending the lines to Quebec and Lon/Win and the southern Ottawa bypass for the multitude who simply want a very fast trip between our 2 biggest cities.

We also have to remember that any funding going to the Corridor will have huge negative political ramifications unless a decent amount of money is also spent on the Cal/Edm corridor. Vancouver may get some funding but it's really far more dependent on what Amtrak does.

[GoTrans]

[QUOTE=ssiguy;9875508]HFR was nothing more than political show. It made it look like VIA & Ottawa were doing something but in reality doing next to nothing. Spending billions only to get back to the service Canadians enjoyed half a century ago is nothing to get excited about and why it has been received with a collective "blah". In some ways it made matters worse because to many it is viewed as Ottawa really not caring at all and getting serious about getting people around in a fast and sustainable way.

In short, if you are going to do it then do it right the first time. That means true high speed rail from Quebec to Windsor with minimum travel speeds of 200 km/hr except in urban zones.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The first phase should be Tor/Ott/Mon and then the second should be extending the lines to Quebec and Lon/Win and the southern Ottawa bypass for the multitude who simply want a very fast trip between our 2 biggest cities.

I disagree with your comments about bypassing Ottawa. The goal should be to increase BOTH frequencies and speed between large mid-points as well as end-points. This will lead to higher ridership levels, lower maintenance costs as well as increased chance of profitability.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

We also have to remember that any funding going to the Corridor will have huge negative political ramifications unless a decent amount of money is also spent on the Cal/Edm corridor. Vancouver may get some funding but it's really far more dependent on what Amtrak does.

I absolutely agree with your comments about the Edmonton-Calgary corridor. With respect there is work that needs to be done such as improvements to the rail bridge in New Westminster which would benefit Via, Amtrak and CN. The Canadian is often 2 hours late by the time it gets to Mission. Clearly there is room for improvement there even if there are only a pathetic 2 trains a week to Toronto.

[manny_santos]

[QUOTE=GoTrans;9875819]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

HFR was nothing more than political show. It made it look like VIA & Ottawa were doing something but in reality doing next to nothing. Spending billions only to get back to the service Canadians enjoyed half a century ago is nothing to get excited about and why it has been received with a collective "blah". In some ways it made matters worse because to many it is viewed as Ottawa really not caring at all and getting serious about getting people around in a fast and sustainable way.

In short, if you are going to do it then do it right the first time. That means true high speed rail from Quebec to Windsor with minimum travel speeds of 200 km/hr except in urban zones.



I disagree with your comments about bypassing Ottawa. The goal should be to increase BOTH frequencies and speed between large mid-points as well as end-points. This will lead to higher ridership levels, lower maintenance costs as well as increased chance of profitability.



I absolutely agree with your comments about the Edmonton-Calgary corridor. With respect there is work that needs to be done such as improvements to the rail bridge in New Westminster which would benefit Via, Amtrak and CN. The Canadian is often 2 hours late by the time it gets to Mission. Clearly there is room for improvement there even if there are only a pathetic 2 trains a week to Toronto.

Even just getting out of Vancouver could be improved. I can see the tracks VIA runs on from my office window (near the Vancouver-Burnaby border), and a week ago Friday I saw the 3pm departure passing by around 3:45. Some of the trackage between New Westminster and Pacific Central is single track, and I can imagine there’s some congestion with freight trains at the yard near the station as well.

[ssiguy]

When I was talking Vancouver, I was only referring to Van/Sea/Por.

An Ottawa by-pass is a necessity and would be a huge draw and there should be as non-stop between Canada's 2 biggest cities.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

When I was talking Vancouver, I was only referring to Van/Sea/Por.

An Ottawa by-pass is a necessity and would be a huge draw and there should be as non-stop between Canada's 2 biggest cities.

Travellers between Montreal and Toronto care about the travel time and frequency of the trains offered to them, not whether the train passes through Ottawa or not. Whatever travel time you desire between Montreal and Toronto can also be achieved by further upgrading the Montreal-Ottawa and Ottawa-Toronto segments, ensuring that these investments also benefit passengers travelling to/from Ottawa, while minimizing operating costs. Running services hourly and non-stop from Montreal to Toronto may work with buses or small airplanes with some 80 seats, but not with entire trainsets of 400+ seats…

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

An Ottawa by-pass is a necessity and would be a huge draw and there should be as non-stop between Canada's 2 biggest cities.

An Ottawa bypass would destroy the business case of the line. I look forward to industry rubbishing this dumb idea.

Ottawa-Montreal as a market probably has the combined demand potential of Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Montreal. Proximity and size of cities drives demand. And there's no greater potential on this line than a metro of 4.3M just 200 km from a metro of 1.5M.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

When I was talking Vancouver, I was only referring to Van/Sea/Por.

An Ottawa by-pass is a necessity and would be a huge draw and there should be as non-stop between Canada's 2 biggest cities.

So, you want to bypass the 3rd busiest station?

[cranes]

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...eliver-where-the-province-could-not.html

...But while much of the focus has been on the Quebec City-to-Toronto corridor, the federal government is also laying the groundwork for an expansion as far as Windsor.

A team of advisers with expertise in railway planning and engineering are working with the Transport Ministry to evaluate different options to improve rail service in southwestern Ontario.

The results of this work are expected at the end of 2023, said Liu.

“After that, the government of Canada will be able to further explore the feasibility of integrating southwestern Ontario into the High Frequency Rail project,” she said. “Once HFR is in operation, the Windsor-to-Quebec City corridor would be provided service in an integrated manner connecting Canadians across Ontario and Quebec.”

...

Wynne’s plan, priced at $60 million per kilometre for the 350-km line, would have been built in two phases, with a first phase between Toronto and London completed within eight years.

Departing from Union Station in Toronto, it would have had stops at Pearson International Airport, Guelph, Kitchener, London, Chatham and Windsor.

Early projections saw more than 10 million passengers using the line by 2041.

...

For Kitchener, high-speed rail could help bolster a regional economy that is expected to grow with continued immigration.

“Transit connectivity for the city of Kitchener has been a key priority and a significant factor in economic development for more than a decade,” said Mayor Berry Vrbanovic.

“As we continue to see improvements in regional rail with provincially funded Go Transit, higher-speed rail with stops in Kitchener is also a long-overdue addition, and we welcome the federal government’s interest to improve rail service connections in southern Ontario.”...

[JHikka]

It seems inevitable that as growth continues in KWC and Hamilton that rail in that direction becomes more frequent and faster. Connecting those areas, down to London at least, makes far too much sense from a ridership perspective. I just stepped off a Toronto-Ottawa Monday night VIA with half my car deboarding for Queens in Kingston, the same would ultimately be said for the plethora of similar schools in SW Ontario.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It seems inevitable that as growth continues in KWC and Hamilton that rail in that direction becomes more frequent and faster. Connecting those areas, down to London at least, makes far too much sense from a ridership perspective. I just stepped off a Toronto-Ottawa Monday night VIA with half my car deboarding for Queens in Kingston, the same would ultimately be said for the plethora of similar schools in SW Ontario.

So, the GO extension to London is in line with this.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It seems inevitable that as growth continues in KWC and Hamilton that rail in that direction becomes more frequent and faster. Connecting those areas, down to London at least, makes far too much sense from a ridership perspective. I just stepped off a Toronto-Ottawa Monday night VIA with half my car deboarding for Queens in Kingston, the same would ultimately be said for the plethora of similar schools in SW Ontario.

I think the more frequent and faster GO service will largely take care of this problem, at least for KW, Guelph and Hamilton. Even in countries with extensive High Speed rail systems, people don't usually take them for journeys under 100km.

[manny_santos]

Amtrak has restored full Cascades service between Vancouver, BC and Portland, OR.

https://www.king5.com/article/traffic/tr...281-8d7c86fd-e055-4603-943d-7e82aac4b4fc

This means day trips from Vancouver to Seattle by train will once again be possible. Daily departures from Vancouver are at 6:35am and 5:45pm, and departures from Seattle to Vancouver at 7:50am and 7:00pm.

There had been a single train per day between Seattle and Vancouver for the past few months, but this restores a second run per day and direct connection to Portland without having to transfer.

[ssiguy]

I think HSR going by the northern KWC route would be stupid mistake.

The southern route via Aldershot is MUCH more direct to London while the northern route is very slow with much sharper turns which is why it takes GO 2 hours to get from London to KW despite only having 2 intermittent stops. Also taking the KW route would bring back Wynne's HSR proposal which planned on having stops at Pearson, Guelph, KW, and Stratford which would take the high speed out of HSR. A southern route wouldn't have that kind of political baggage.

Taking control of the CN/CP route {which twin each other from Chatham to Woodstock while VIA already owns to Chatham to Windsor section} from London to Hamilton and resurrecting the Brantford by-pass would get journey down to 75 minutes for London to Union.

GO can serve the KW route and stop at Pearson which would be a big draw for that service area but not one that matters to London. Obviously a Pearson stop is irrelevant to Windsorites but increasingly also for Londoners. London airport is served by several different airlines and has destinations across Canada and vacation destinations. As the city continues to grow rapidly and Pearson continues to deteriorate, that trend will continue.

What do you guys think of the northern vs southern Union-London battle?

[acottawa]

What is Windsor-Toronto demand like? Windsorites are pretty accustomed to going to the Detroit are for recreation, airports, business, etc

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

What do you guys think of the northern vs southern Union-London battle?

Had you bothered to actually read the replies your eversame talking points received the first hundred times you vomited them on us, you wouldn’t wrongly assume that anybody still bothers to read past your user name…

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

Had you bothered to actually read the replies your eversame talking points received the first hundred times you vomited them on us, you wouldn’t wrongly assume that anybody still bothers to read past your user name…

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think HSR going by the northern KWC route would be stupid mistake.

For the bazillionth time, any substantial rail investment west of Union station that doesn't connect Pearson airport would be a really stupid mistake. So it's not happening.

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

Had you bothered to actually read the replies your eversame talking points received the first hundred times you vomited them on us, you wouldn’t wrongly assume that anybody still bothers to read past your user name…

Yep. And he seems to think the private sector or government throwing down billions will care about marginally shorter routing over the myriad of other priorities they have. Ironically, a shorter route makes more sense for a slower GO service.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think HSR going by the northern KWC route would be stupid mistake.

The southern route via Aldershot is MUCH more direct to London while the northern route is very slow with much sharper turns which is why it takes GO 2 hours to get from London to KW despite only having 2 intermittent stops. Also taking the KW route would bring back Wynne's HSR proposal which planned on having stops at Pearson, Guelph, KW, and Stratford which would take the high speed out of HSR. A southern route wouldn't have that kind of political baggage.

Taking control of the CN/CP route {which twin each other from Chatham to Woodstock while VIA already owns to Chatham to Windsor section} from London to Hamilton and resurrecting the Brantford by-pass would get journey down to 75 minutes for London to Union.

GO can serve the KW route and stop at Pearson which would be a big draw for that service area but not one that matters to London. Obviously a Pearson stop is irrelevant to Windsorites but increasingly also for Londoners. London airport is served by several different airlines and has destinations across Canada and vacation destinations. As the city continues to grow rapidly and Pearson continues to deteriorate, that trend will continue.

What do you guys think of the northern vs southern Union-London battle?

You are assuming a lot of things.
1) they will follow existing ROW.
2) They can buy existing ROW
3) It has to be one over the other.

East of Toronto, Via either owns the line, or it is abandoned. West of Toronto, Via is not that lucky. GO owns most of the line to K/W and Hamilton.

You are also not taking into account a possibility of a HSR Maple Leaf route. If that happens, the route through Brantford makes some sense too.

Originally Posted by acottawa

What is Windsor-Toronto demand like? Windsorites are pretty accustomed to going to the Detroit are for recreation, airports, business, etc

They tend to fly out of Detroit.
They root for Detroit teams.
They tend to cross border shop.

Would that change if a train could get them to Pearson within 2 hours? Maybe.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What is Windsor-Toronto demand like? Windsorites are pretty accustomed to going to the Detroit are for recreation, airports, business, etc

I think a more interesting question might be: what would Detroit-Toronto demand be like?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I think a more interesting question might be: what would Detroit-Toronto demand be like?

Or a Chicago - Toronto demand.