DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I'd be happy for prices to drop considerably. I bought 18 years ago and as of last spring, I could have sold for around $1.1M. I already coughed up an extra $2500 for property tax last August, and from the sounds of it, I'm going to get an even bigger bill this year.

I always thought a million dollar house would have a 4 car garage, circle drive, grand foyer and pool. I have none of that lol!

My inner nihilist is kind of looking forward to 26% property tax increases. Everybody was so happy to get rid of Gallagher with almost zero understanding of what that meant for them. Colorado voters used to be deliberate and nuanced, now we just parrot whatever the "correct" liberal thing to do is, like California voters. I am willing to bet the 50,000 people who will lose their homes if that happens almost uniformly voted for their own demise. Fingers crossed our ever-wise legislature can avert our self-imposed doom.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

My inner nihilist is kind of looking forward to 26% property tax increases. Everybody was so happy to get rid of Gallagher with almost zero understanding of what that meant for them. Colorado voters used to be deliberate and nuanced, now we just parrot whatever the "correct" liberal thing to do is, like California voters. I am willing to bet the 50,000 people who will lose their homes if that happens almost uniformly voted for their own demise. Fingers crossed our ever-wise legislature can avert our self-imposed doom.

Yeah, I wonder if voters actually understood the impacts.
I've lived in California and they already have a law to keep property tax increases low.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

My inner nihilist is kind of looking forward to 26% property tax increases. Everybody was so happy to get rid of Gallagher with almost zero understanding of what that meant for them. Colorado voters used to be deliberate and nuanced, now we just parrot whatever the "correct" liberal thing to do is, like California voters. I am willing to bet the 50,000 people who will lose their homes if that happens almost uniformly voted for their own demise. Fingers crossed our ever-wise legislature can avert our self-imposed doom.

^This exact argument could be applied to the rent control bill talk at the legislature. It will crush those it intends to protect because...economics...math...the real world - things politicians don't understand.

[TakeFive]

Wasn't the reason for wanting to repeal Gallagher substantially because commercial property was bearing an outsized property tax burden?

So far as the amount of property taxes they can be easily lowered if desired. Normally in Colorado more is better from the Gubment's POV.

[ams5280]

Is the issue the property tax?

You have a home built in the 1970s. The value of the land is increasing, but it’s still a single family home. So there is incentive to redevelop to a higher use that is better able to offset the increase in value and the increase in costs. But you can’t because zoning doesn’t allow for it.

So you want to have your cake and eat it to, high home values that you as a homeowner benefit from (increased equity) and that are artificially protected by local zoning laws, and at the same time you don‘t want to be impacted by property tax increases.

I recognize that it’s not politically palatable, but if we want lower property taxes, we need to address the housing affordability issue first rather than sidestepping it.

Now I know that’s not feasible when we‘re talking about gentrifying neighborhoods that are seeing a huge increase in value due to folks moving in, but there’s definitely an overlap in the loudest voices supporting lowering property taxes and the “I’ve-got-mine” folks, and the fact remains that there are market incentives to redevelop a la Strong Towns gentle density increases.

[TakeFive]

........

Originally Posted by ams5280

Is the issue the property tax?

You have a home built in the 1970s. The value of the land is increasing, but it’s still a single family home. So there is incentive to redevelop to a higher use that is better able to offset the increase in value and the increase in costs. But you can’t because zoning doesn’t allow for it.

So you want to have your cake and eat it to, high home values that you as a homeowner benefit from (increased equity) and that are artificially protected by local zoning laws, and at the same time you don‘t want to be impacted by property tax increases.

I recognize that it’s not politically palatable, but if we want lower property taxes, we need to address the housing affordability issue first rather than sidestepping it.

Now I know that’s not feasible when we‘re talking about gentrifying neighborhoods that are seeing a huge increase in value due to folks moving in, but there’s definitely an overlap in the loudest voices supporting lowering property taxes and the “I’ve-got-mine” folks, and the fact remains that there are market incentives to redevelop a la Strong Towns gentle density increases.

Just out of curiosity how long have you lived in Denver? In case you missed it, density in the central city has exploded over the last dozen years; yet the cost of housing especially single family homes has also exploded. Go figure.

Pandemic Times

For years Millennials (generally) were content to rent. When the pandemic hit there was a mad dash to buy single family homes. Guess what happened?

Per capita income

Does Strong Towns talk about the correlation with per capita income?
NOTE: I previously looked up the data but I'll use 50% as a placeholder here.

Seattle, especially the central city has 50% more density than Denver yet their cost of homes is 50% higher. It turns out their per capita income is also 50% higher.

Sweet Dreams

You can chase your density dreams for decades and find it won't solve the problem. You want a Quick Fix? Start dumping toxic waste all over town.
Partly it's a lack of sprawl but desirability is even more important and hard to fix. For example, there's plenty of affordable housing in Phoenix but not in Scottsdale. The difference is desirability.

If the biggest shortage is in single family homes how do you solve that with density?

[rds70]

Initial massing study for the project planned along Stout between 22nd and Park Avenue West. Each of the three towers will be 25 stories (268 feet) with a total of 848 units. The architect is Perkins + Will. The developer is CMK:

[TakeFive]

Which would complete the Trifecta

Originally Posted by rds70

Initial massing study for the project planned along Stout between 22nd and Park Avenue West. Each of the three towers will be 25 stories (268 feet) with a total of 848 units. The architect is Perkins + Will. The developer is CMK:

I'm going to take a wild guess that the value of the $ falling back towards earth from high altitude may be more important to this specific developer than rising interest rates.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by rds70

Initial massing study for the project planned along Stout between 22nd and Park Avenue West. Each of the three towers will be 25 stories (268 feet) with a total of 848 units. The architect is Perkins + Will. The developer is CMK:

Wait a second. So there’s this project at Stout, the Evolve towers proposal at Champa, and the two-tower project at California. That’s seven towers that could be going up in a two-block area.

Wow.

[twalm]

Anyone have any information or renders on 6700 E. Union Ave in Belleview station?

Sounds like a grocery store topped by two apartment towers, one 19 stories and one 20.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twalm

Anyone have any information or renders on 6700 E. Union Ave in Belleview station?

Sounds like a grocery store topped by two apartment towers, one 19 stories and one 20.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...evelopment-belleview-station-denver.html

Essentially the master developer/land holder, Front Range Land and Development has submitted a 'concept' plan for what you mentioned. However their intent is to find a developer to buy the land so who knows what they will end up with or when.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by rds70

Initial massing study for the project planned along Stout between 22nd and Park Avenue West. Each of the three towers will be 25 stories (268 feet) with a total of 848 units. The architect is Perkins + Will. The developer is CMK:

Recent state of this half-block (photo by me):



edit: I haven't posted a photo here in about five years, ha, no idea how to do it correctly anymore.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Recent state of this half-block (photo by me):



edit: I haven't posted a photo here in about five years, ha, no idea how to do it correctly anymore.

A lovely site. All we need to do is spend another hundred million a year on homelessness and the issue will surely be solved.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Wait a second. So there’s this project at Stout, the Evolve towers proposal at Champa, and the two-tower project at California. That’s seven towers that could be going up in a two-block area.

Wow.

...and all with the same height as well? Imagine if there wasn't a height limit in this neck of the woods - I think D-AS maxes out at a 7.0 FAR if you do design review. I still don't get why we do FAR limitations for downtown areas in this country. If anyone has the wisdom to explain this to me, please do.

[TakeFive]

Density Proposed Along the Avenue

80 Rental Units Proposed for East Colfax
February 27, 2023 - Mile High CRE


View of Adams St. to Cook St. on Colfax Ave., courtesy of Paradise Land Co.

According to concept plans submitted by Denver-based architecture firm The Mulhern Group to the City and County of Denver, Paradise Land Company has proposed the construction of two residential buildings at 3300-3310 E. Colfax Ave. (the former site of Paradise Cleaners) that will provide a combined 80 rental units. 70 of which will be micro-units (550SF) and 18 income restricted.

A six-story building is proposed on the site at Adams Street and East Colfax Avenue and a a three-story building is proposed on the adjacent parcel at Cook Street and East Colfax Avenue.

Buzz Geller Alert

According to property records, Buzz Geller, managing partner at Paradise Land Co., and David Paderski purchased the property at 3300-3310 E. Colfax Ave. for $350,000 in 1979.

How many of you can recall Buzz purchasing this property back in 1979?

[TakeFive]

Interesting Updates

How many recall the construction of 1755 Blake Street? Ken/DenverInfill does:

New 1755 Blake Rendering
January 23, 2008 - DenverInfill


Image courtesy of Unico Properties

Unico Announces Interior/Exterior Improvements, Two New Leases to 1755 Blake Street
February 27, 2023 - Mile High CRE

Building on its mission of developing innovative, people-focused building experiences in the city of Denver, Unico Properties LLC, recently announced a total upgrade to its downtown Denver office building, 1755 Blake Street, with the addition of two new leases. Bocce-bar concept Lob Denver will occupy the property’s ground floor, while online payment platform Melio has moved into the 3rd floor.

Coors Family’s Five-Block Downtown Golden Property Newly Branded “Clayworks District”
February 27, 2023 - Mile High CRE

AC Development, a privately-owned real estate company launched in 2020 by the Coors Family, has announced the launch of Clayworks, the new brand for the planned mixed-use district in downtown Golden previously known as the CoorsTek 9th Street Redevelopment. Clayworks will be an extension of downtown Golden, welcoming the community back to this historic site for the first time in well over a century. The Golden City Council unanimously approved the Clayworks vision and plan last year.

Designed by Tryba Architects, the deeply sustainable new district will be located on over 12 acres of land owned by the Coors family. The site has been home to CoorsTek’s technical ceramics manufacturing and research facilities since 1910, but AC Development will soon transform this area into a dynamic five-block district with cutting-edge office spaces, a boutique hotel, distinctive apartments, and outstanding food and beverage — all rooted in the beautiful context and lifestyle of Golden.

Anybody (besides me) tour the Coors Brewery back in the mid-1960's?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Does anyone know what is going on at 1199 Bannock St? That is the site of the proposed 30 story residential tower in GT. I haven't seen recent permitting activity but the site is fenced off now.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Anybody (besides me) tour the Coors Brewery back in the mid-1960's?

I think you're about 40 years too early for most of the older people here.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Does anyone know what is going on at 1199 Bannock St? That is the site of the proposed 30 story residential tower in GT. I haven't seen recent permitting activity but the site is fenced off now.

Demo permit was issued for the site. Concept plan was recently updated, but the building isn't further in the development process.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I think you're about 40 years too early for most of the older people here.

Maybe not quite 40 years, the legal drinking age was like 8yrs old back in the 60s wasn't it?