Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[esquire]

^ I'd believe it if you told me that 50% of Poles know at least a few words in English such that they could ask directions or order lunch while in the UK. But I would bet the mortgage money that nowhere near 50% are actually fluent in English, particularly those who came of age before the fall of the Iron Curtain.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

yeah, just like the seven-up guy.

I already addressed that in an earlier post.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Poles too have lots of chips on their shoulders (vis-à-vis the Russians, but also the Czechs, the Germans, and even the Ukrainians, who "stole" their 2nd largest city, Lwow, in 1945, even though of course today they have toned down their resentment at Ukrainian nationalists in the name of fighting against a greater evil).

Also Belarus. Much of what is now Belarus used to be part of Poland.

Many of the cities in the borderland area that were transferred/ceded from Poland to then-Soviet Belarus & Ukraine, were actually predominantly Jewish before the Holocaust. (Pinsk, for example, was 70% Jewish in the 1930s). Jews in Central & Eastern Europe are seen as a separate ethnicity from Europeans, so this contributed to the territorial disputes (ie. Neither the Poles nor the Ukrainians nor the Belarusians were a majority, so its "up for grabs").

[dleung]

The speech was for a global audience. The global language is English. Stop crying

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'd actually believe it. Having spent some time in Poland, I'd say the average person there is more likely to speak English than in Germany or France..

I suppose you didn't hang out with folks in the countryside or in small towns.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by dleung

The speech was for a global audience. The global language is English. Stop crying

Global audience? You mean European and North American audience I suppose. That's just 1/8th of the world. The Indians, who are more numerous than Europe and North America combined, largely support the Russians. Ditto for the Chinese. Large parts of Africa also support more Russia than the Western point of view.



I think there's a tendency in the US, and the West more generally, to equate the West with "the world". I doubt "the world" was much impressed by a speech in English by the US president in Warsaw. Most people on this planet are probably unaware of that speech.

If the goal was to rally support within Nato, there was no need for the speech in the first place.

No, let's be honest, that speech was mostly an ego trip. Each US president since Kennedy feels like they too need to do a "historical speech" in Eastern Europe. Reagan did his in front of the Brandenburg Gate like Kennedy ("tear down that wall Mr Gorbachev"). Obama did his also in front of the Brandenburg Gate like Kennedy (do you even remember what he said? me neither). Trump did his in Poland (the Poles were eager to please Trump). There is something a bit vain about US presidents and their historical speeches in Central Europe.

[MonctonRad]

I'm beginning to think New Brisavoine is more than just an agent provacateur. I wonder if he isn't a Russian bot of some kind.

Fess up - your name is really Yuri and you live in Volgograd, right????

You're doing a great job of sewing anger, bitterness and discord. Keep it up!!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

The speech was for a global audience. The global language is English. Stop crying

Message received!

https://twitter.com/oclupak2/status/1115600350478721024/photo/1

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm beginning to think New Brisavoine is more than just an agent provacateur. I wonder if he isn't a Russian bot of some kind.

Fess up - your name is really Yuri and you live in Volgograd, right????

You're doing a great job of sewing anger, bitterness and discord. Keep it up!!

I'm not sure he would have liked Biden's speech any better had it been delivered in fluent Polish.

I'm beginning to think it's not about language

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Message received!

https://twitter.com/oclupak2/status/1115600350478721024/photo/1

Man, where do you find this stuff?

I could dig up thousands of contemporary examples of racism against ethnic minorities (natives, jews, blacks and other visible minorites), but you just happen to have this by your side? And it is in no way equivalent to what dleung was expressing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Man, where do you find this stuff?

I could dig up thousands of contemporary examples of racism against ethnic minorities (natives, jews, blacks and other visible minorites), but you just happen to have this by your side? And it is in no way equivalent to what dleung was expressing.

dleung gets special treatment for his life's work on here for being so blatantly prejudiced, even though he casts himself as a crusader for good.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Global audience? You mean European and North American audience I suppose. That's just 1/8th of the world. The Indians, who are more numerous than Europe and North America combined, largely support the Russians. Ditto for the Chinese. Large parts of Africa also support more Russia than the Western point of view.



I think there's a tendency in the US, and the West more generally, to equate the West with "the world". I doubt "the world" was much impressed by a speech in English by the US president in Warsaw. Most people on this planet are probably unaware of that speech.

If the goal was to rally support within Nato, there was no need for the speech in the first place.

No, let's be honest, that speech was mostly an ego trip. Each US president since Kennedy feels like they too need to do a "historical speech" in Eastern Europe. Reagan did his in front of the Brandenburg Gate like Kennedy ("tear down that wall Mr Gorbachev"). Obama did his also in front of the Brandenburg Gate like Kennedy (do you even remember what he said? me neither). Trump did his in Poland (the Poles were eager to please Trump). There is something a bit vain about US presidents and their historical speeches in Central Europe.

An opinion poll done in China?!?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Evil guy Richard Martineau quoting an Angus Reid poll on racism.

Let's see how the evil racist Québécois compare to other Canadians.

% of people who answered YES that some races are superior to others:

Île-du-Prince-Édouard : 19 %
Nouveau-Brunswick : 16 %
Ontario, Saskatchewan et Manitoba : 14 %
Nouvelle-Écosse : 13 %
Colombie-Britannique : 12 %
Québec : 9 %
Terre-Neuve : 8 %
Moyenne nationale : 12 %


Also asked: Is Canada a racist country?

Highest % of people saying yes: SK at 44%

Lowest % of people saying yes: QC at 22%


They also have data on racial superiority sentiment broken down by demographics.

Here are the % of each demographic who say some races are superior to others.

Visible minorities are most likely to believe that racial superiority exists, at 18%.

White (Caucasian) people are least likely to think that, at 11%.

Indigenous Canadians are somewhere in the middle.

An article that has a table right up top showing the stats by province.

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/fr/magazines/february-2023/quebecois-moins-racistes-loi-21/

[New Brisavoine]

The sort of op-ed in the Le Devoir today that you'd never read in an Anglophone newspaper.

O Canada… what?

Le Devoir
February 23, 2023

The debates around the national anthem reflect the debates about the country itself

https://www.ledevoir.com/opinion/chroniques/782822/chronique-o-canada-quoi

One almost wants to smile at the thought of a Conservative columnist from Toronto who thinks the lyrics of O Canada can't be touched.

One would like to remind him that the original music is by Calixa Lavallée, and that the poem is by Adolphe-Basile Routhier. That the anthem was sung for the first time on June 24, 1880, for the Saint-Jean-Baptiste celebrations. That the word “Canada”, at the time, was still largely synonymous with French Canada. And that the English translations (yes, in the plural — there were several) already constitute a form of political appropriation of a song that was designed to talk about something completely different from what it represents today.

At bottom, Jully Black's gesture represents the appropriation of an appropriation.

What's interesting here, therefore, is less the modification of the lyrics itself than the way in which it resonates.

Quebec politics has long been primarily divided between sovereignists and federalists. And “federalism” in this context implied a defense of the status quo.

The Canada that organized the 1995 love-in was a Canada convinced of its own virtue, greatness and perfection. For many Canadians, whose voice Black somehow made her voice last weekend, that Canada no longer exists.

The critique of Canadian nationalism has not been, for several years already, a political issue that emanates almost exclusively from Quebec anymore. Of course, indigenous peoples have also criticized the federation since its very founding. But there are also now more and more allies aware of these perspectives who are using their voices (here, literally) to question ideas that are central to the ideological edifice on which Canada was built.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Global audience? You mean European and North American audience I suppose. That's just 1/8th of the world. The Indians, who are more numerous than Europe and North America combined, largely support the Russians. Ditto for the Chinese

That's why Biden needed to speak to as many people as possible... hence it's through English. It's as inevitable as metric. What a hill to die on

Originally Posted by Acajack

dleung gets special treatment for his life's work on here for being so blatantly prejudiced, even though he casts himself as a crusader for good.

lol what? No one here including myself would've ever known of the "frog" slur if you and lio haven't been always using that example to show that Francophones suffer from racism as much as the blacks/indigenous or something

[Loco101]

[Loco101]

The French language high school in Kapuskasing, École secondaire catholique Cité des Jeunes has used a frog as its school symbol and mascot for decades. Kapuskasing is at least 2/3 francophone and I don't recall anybody wanting to get rid of the frog which is interesting.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

That's why Biden needed to speak to as many people as possible... hence it's through English. It's as inevitable as metric. What a hill to die on





lol what? No one here including myself would've ever known of the "frog" slur if you and lio haven't been always using that example to show that Francophones suffer from racism as much as the blacks/indigenous or something

Yeah right. The "frog" slur originated in the UK and is used in Canada, the US and basically the entire anglosphere.

But sure Lio and I invented it or at least resurrected it single-handedly here on SSP.

None of you guys would have ever heard of it, if not for us.

Riiiiight.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The French language high school in Kapuskasing, École secondaire catholique Cité des Jeunes has used a frog as its school symbol and mascot for decades. Kapuskasing is at least 2/3 francophone and I don't recall anybody wanting to get rid of the frog which is interesting.
]

I went to a Franco-Ontarien high school for part of my schooling that had a frog as a mascot as well and the name of the sports teams were Les Grenouilles.

I believe they have since ditched the sports team name for something else, but from what I can see on the net the frog mascot still persists to some degree.

I do wonder if this stuff won't get phased out eventually given the times we're in.

[MolsonExport]

there was this chess club at my high school (in Montreal) that was called the squareheads. The members were all, to the letter, survivors of the terrible abuse meted out by their Quebecois overlords. The elite members were called Goddamned English, while the apprentices were called blokes. As an act of penance, each day they gathered in a circle and spoke the following words (baragouinaient en français):

Il flottait dans ses pantalons
De là lui venait son surnom
Bozo-les-culottes
Y avait qu'une cinquième année
Il savait à peine compter
Bozo-les-culottes
Comme il baragouinait l'anglais
Comme gardien d'nuit il travaillait
Bozo-les-culottes
Même s'il était un peu dingue
Y avait compris qu'faut être bilingue
Bozo-les-culottes
Un jour, quelqu'un lui avait dit
Qu'on l'exploitait dans son pays
Bozo-les-culottes
Que les Anglais avaient les bonnes places
Et qu'ils lui riaient en pleine face
Bozo-les-culottes