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  #16161  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 9:32 PM
Fading Isle Fading Isle is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Sounds like Go Slow orders forever. We got a lemon. And we are building a whole network around a lemon. Bicycle speed trains will drive more and more off of transit.
So when they clearly said the go slow orders were temporary, it seems like that was a lie. The proper word for an event of unknown duration is “indefinite”, not “temporary”. Temporary means there is a definite and known end point.
     
     
  #16162  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 10:30 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
It would be interesting to read what the the Transportation Safety Board actually said about the design of the Alstom Citadis Spirit vehicle (I don't trust the media to interpret anything, let alone technical briefs). Is it strictly an issue with the vehicle, or, as Alstom has claimed, an incompatibility between the design of the vehicle and the design of the track alignment? Can the problem be fixed by using a different "cartridge assembly" design, replacing the vehicle, or removing some of the sharp curves?
The CTV News article has the TSB letter posted. You can read it there.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/problematic-lrt-train-parts-still-pose-risk-to-safety-tsb-says-1.6275252
     
     
  #16163  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 11:38 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
It would be interesting to read what the the Transportation Safety Board actually said about the design of the Alstom Citadis Spirit vehicle (I don't trust the media to interpret anything, let alone technical briefs). Is it strictly an issue with the vehicle, or, as Alstom has claimed, an incompatibility between the design of the vehicle and the design of the track alignment? Can the problem be fixed by using a different "cartridge assembly" design, replacing the vehicle, or removing some of the sharp curves?
Based on the TSB's wording in their letter, it doesn't seem like they know what the exact issue(s) are, only that it can't be attributed to a single component.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fading Isle View Post
So when they clearly said the go slow orders were temporary, it seems like that was a lie. The proper word for an event of unknown duration is “indefinite”, not “temporary”. Temporary means there is a definite and known end point.
"Semantic outrage" is now my new favourite kind of forum post.

That's not the definition of "temporary" according to any dictionary I could find with a quick Google, and there's still work being done on the issue.
     
     
  #16164  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 11:50 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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The most worrisome aspect of all of this. We have trains that have significant unknown flaws and more are being manufactured and delivered before the problems are fully identified and resolved.

This is all being aired in public over and over again, so how does this build public confidence? Is there anybody in this city who doesn't know that our trains have problems?
     
     
  #16165  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 12:48 AM
Fading Isle Fading Isle is offline
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
Based on the TSB's wording in their letter, it doesn't seem like they know what the exact issue(s) are, only that it can't be attributed to a single component.


"Semantic outrage" is now my new favourite kind of forum post.

That's not the definition of "temporary" according to any dictionary I could find with a quick Google, and there's still work being done on the issue.
I’d love to see our hear about any of the work being done on the issue. Temporary = short duration, meaning you need to have an idea of the duration and it has to be short. To me this just looks like the limited public communication about the go slow orders was minimizing and/or misleading, which is an issue for me and I think a legitimate one.
     
     
  #16166  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 1:03 AM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Because the independent TSB wrote that safety issues “continue to pose a risk to safety”, the City asked RTG for “written confirmation that the O-Train Line 1 system is safe”.

Well, I, just like the city, would obviously take the word of RTG over the TSB. Afterall, RTG put the confirmation in writing. And, since the city and RTG have ‘made up’ and agreed to ‘play nice’, surely this wouldn’t be like all of those other things that RTG has put into writing – like completion dates. Heavens no; those were before the reconciliation. /s

Where are the mayor and City Manager on this? Where is the Transit Commission? It is very obvious that OC Transpo doesn’t care about passenger safety. They have been told – ALMOST 2 WEEK AGO! – that safety issues persist, and they have not shut down the trains.

DO. THE. RIGHT. THING.

If you have been told there are potential dangers, prevent them by stopping the trains. You don’t ask, the completely biased, RTG for a note saying that everything is safe – now.

This is crazy.

Oh, I know what you will listen to:

If anything happens, and you have had prior knowledge that dangers existed – and you did nothing but get a note – then this city will be sued into bankruptcy. The fact that RTG wrote the city a note is not going to deflect any liability.

TAKE THE TRAINS OUT OF SERVICE UNTIL AN EXACT CAUSE IS KNOWN AND A PROPER FIX HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED.
THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE.
     
     
  #16167  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 2:28 AM
MissingMiddler MissingMiddler is offline
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Man, I spent 5 years in Ottawa frothing at the mouth for the Confed Line to be completed, telling everybody it would change the city.

Life brought me to Toronto a year before it ended up opening, and I was so ticked I couldn't live in the city to make use of it. Nowadays, I visit this thread to bask in the joy of the incredible shitstorm I'm missing. I genuinely thought the city was getting its shit together and was going to be respected for its ground-breaking LRT commuter system.

Now everyone I championed it to knows I was wrong, and Ottawa has somehow managed to flub another one. RIP
     
     
  #16168  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 2:35 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The most worrisome aspect of all of this. We have trains that have significant unknown flaws and more are being manufactured and delivered before the problems are fully identified and resolved.

This is all being aired in public over and over again, so how does this build public confidence? Is there anybody in this city who doesn't know that our trains have problems?
The problem with what you are suggesting is that if they either paused construction of phase 2, or paused receipt of the LRVs, the larger problems will only get worse. Imagine the Phase 2 opening without the LRVs it needs. Or imagine the new sections not opening and rusting while a solution can be met. The good thing is, if they continue on with the construction, if a problem is found, a fleet wide repair can be done. I do feel that before a Phase 3 is started, a new, more reliable LRV is sought after.
     
     
  #16169  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 2:58 AM
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City should update LRT axle assemblies 'to protect the travelling public': Transportation Safety Board
The city's transit general manager, Renée Amilcar, assured council that the LRT is safe and that OC Transpo is following the TSB's suggestions

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Feb 15, 2023 • Last updated 4 hours ago • 4 minute read


An alert LRT operator’s report of “unusual vibration” on the train they were driving last July averted a possible derailment on the Confederation Line due to an axle hub that was on the verge of “catastrophic failure,” according to a Transportation Safety Board letter released Wednesday by the city.

The incident, following which the train was pulled from service to be checked, is one of three cases of cartridge assembly failures on the Ottawa LRT line being investigated by the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) and detailed in an advisory letter dated Feb. 3

The letter warned that the same problems still pose a safety risk and must be addressed “to protect the travelling public.”

The TSB letter was sent to the city earlier this month and released by the city on Wednesday, along with a memo to council from transit general manager Renée Amilcar.

The July 2022 incident, along with the Aug. 8, 2021, derailment near Tunney’s Pasture Station and a Sept. 19, 2021, derailment near Tremblay Station, involved failures of the cartridge assembly that connects the train’s wheels and axle to the drive train, the TSB says.

The letter states that the train involved in last summer’s incident was taken out of service after the driver reported the vibration and sent to the Belfast Road maintenance yard for inspection. There, workers found the disc brake on one axle “displayed 10 times the maximum limit of free play.

“The assembly was removed, and further examination identified that the axle hub was damaged so severely that catastrophic failure was likely to occur had it remained in service,” according to the safety advisory.

It was not made clear if passengers were on the train at the time of the driver’s report.

In that case, experts measured and tested all the components of three cartridge assemblies. Though all met design specifications, they broke anyway — and in all sorts of different ways.

“The three cartridge assemblies examined by the TSB exhibited numerous failure modes,” says the safety advisory letter sent to interim city manager Wendy Stephanson and signed by Vincenzo De Angelis, TSB director of rail and pipeline investigations.

“The modes included fatigue fractures, rolling contact fatigue, surface wear, impact wear, environmental erosion, and frictional wear. The observed damage was widely spread throughout the cartridge assemblies and was not limited to any one particular component.”

The safety advisory also noted that parts on Ottawa’s trains have been wearing out early and “well below industry standards for cartridge assemblies.”

Alstom, the manufacturer of Ottawa’s specially designed Citadis Spirit trains, has built trains for LRT systems in Istanbul and Paris that have operated reliably, the TSB notes. In contrast, Ottawa demanded a lot more of its trains (and changed its specifications midway through the tendering process), wanting a higher speed and putting in more frequent stops than typically found on a light rail line.

“The induction motor used for the Citadis Spirit produces more torque and accelerates quicker than the (motors) used for the Istanbul and Paris LRVs (light rail vehicles),” the safety advisory states.

“With an original operating speed of 90 km/h and 13 stations over the 12.5 km-long OLRT Confederation Line, frequent starts and stops could potentially introduce accelerated wear to motor bogie drive and brake components.”

This is the second Rail Safety Advisory the TSB has issued for the Confederation Line. Another advisory issued in September 2021 urged stepped-up inspections for axle wear and tear and suggested that the Ottawa LRT should also have temperature monitors installed “in order to detect overheated roller bearings in a timely manner and intervene before an in-service catastrophic failure occurs.”

That hasn’t been done, the Feb. 3 TSB letter states.

“To date, other than ongoing cartridge assembly free play monitoring, no concrete steps have been taken to resolve the safety deficiency identified in the RSA,” it said in that advisory.

In her memo to city council accompanying the advisory Wednesday, Amilcar assured councillors that the LRT is safe and that the city and Rideau Transit Group are following the TSB’s guidance.

“After reviewing the letter, OC Transpo and (Rideau Transit Group, the consortium contracted to build the first stage of LRT) can confirm that all enhanced system safety measures in place align with TSB suggestions,” Amilcar’s memo stated.

“RTG has provided the City with written confirmation that the O-Train Line 1 system is safe. Staff are currently reviewing TSB’s findings in detail; this information will assist RTG in completing the final root cause analysis into the wheel axle hub assembly issue.”

All LRT vehicles are inspected daily before launch, Amilcar said. In addition, leading and trailing bogies are replaced every 175,000 km while the other, non-motorized axle assemblies are inspected more frequently in accordance with the TSB’s recommendations, she said. Temporary speed reductions are also in place at various points along the Confederation Line to reduce wear and tear, she said.

Vibration monitors have also been installed on some trains and there are plans to outfit more trains in the coming months, she noted.

“The City continues to work collaboratively with RTG and is actively monitoring its work and progress. Our shared goal is to determine the final root cause of this issue and implement a solution that makes O-Train Line 1 operations sustainable and reliable.”

The safety advisory was released the day before the first meeting of the city’s Light Rail Sub-Committee, a new body established in response to last summer’s provincial inquiry into the construction and operation of the Confederation Line.

The new committee, according to Mayor Mark Sutcliffe, is charged with “accountability for the light rail projects going forward, to create oversight and to take one step toward rebuilding the public’s trust in the light rail project.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...lling-public-transportation-safety-board
     
     
  #16170  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 1:26 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
Because the independent TSB wrote that safety issues “continue to pose a risk to safety”, the City asked RTG for “written confirmation that the O-Train Line 1 system is safe”.

Well, I, just like the city, would obviously take the word of RTG over the TSB. Afterall, RTG put the confirmation in writing. And, since the city and RTG have ‘made up’ and agreed to ‘play nice’, surely this wouldn’t be like all of those other things that RTG has put into writing – like completion dates. Heavens no; those were before the reconciliation. /s

Where are the mayor and City Manager on this? Where is the Transit Commission? It is very obvious that OC Transpo doesn’t care about passenger safety. They have been told – ALMOST 2 WEEK AGO! – that safety issues persist, and they have not shut down the trains.

DO. THE. RIGHT. THING.

If you have been told there are potential dangers, prevent them by stopping the trains. You don’t ask, the completely biased, RTG for a note saying that everything is safe – now.

This is crazy.

Oh, I know what you will listen to:

If anything happens, and you have had prior knowledge that dangers existed – and you did nothing but get a note – then this city will be sued into bankruptcy. The fact that RTG wrote the city a note is not going to deflect any liability.

TAKE THE TRAINS OUT OF SERVICE UNTIL AN EXACT CAUSE IS KNOWN AND A PROPER FIX HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED.
THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE.
With all this going on, the city wants to dump its surplus buses? Remember October 2019 and they got rid of hundreds of buses before the Confed Line was proven.

This is increasingly looking like a permanent solution may require a lengthy shutdown of the Confed Line, to replace track and/or make substantial modifications to the trains. If we close down the Confed Line, how does OC Transpo function? Once the surplus buses are sold off (are they already gone?), we will not have the vehicles nor the drivers to keep OC functional?

Disposing the buses leads us down a path where a permanent solution may be difficult or impossible.
     
     
  #16171  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 3:24 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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My thinking:

When the TSB report arrived on the desks of city staff, they should have taken immediate action. And that action should not have been to ask RTG to write an “It’s all good” note. If there is the real potential for a catastrophic failure, then the trains must be taken out of service. Period.

The city says that it has a written assurance from RTG that they have everything covered.
  • RTG visually inspects every vehicle before every launch. [Woopee. This needs to be done regardless of any potential failures. This should be standard practice for every transit vehicle everywhere.]
  • “Leading and Trailing” [Which ever those are] bogie axle bearings are inspected every 7,500 km and the entire axle is replaced with a rebuilt unit every 175,000 km.
  • ‘Other’ axles are inspected [Somehow; visually? By checking free play? Nothing specific here] every 3,500 km but only after they exceed 175,000 km.
  • RTG has installed vibration monitoring equipment (Don’t know if they are monitored in real-time) on “some” trains – and plan to install more (But no specifics on number installed or timing).

So, when the TSB says that the failure of the disk-side bearing on LRV1127 occurred at 4,493 km after its last inspection, should I be confident that inspections every 7,500 km are sufficient?

The TSB reviewed the findings of the over 11,000 bearing tests done over the year 2021-Aug-08 to 2022-Aug-11. During that period, there were 68 bearings found to have excessive play; which resulted in their entire axle being replaced. At the time of replacement, those bearing assemblies had travelled between 64,140 km and 233,042 km. So, it would seem that the problem can occur far before the 175,000 km scheduled axle replacement. Even the average distance travelled of 140,219 km is less than the scheduled replacement.

I know that sidelining the trains until there is a PROVEN fix would be both disruptive and expensive. It was for the Washington, DC, metro when they pulled all of their new Hitachi trains when one derailed (Yes, pulled after 1 derailment). But public safety needs to be paramount and acted upon – not just saying the words.
     
     
  #16172  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 4:59 PM
Jay31 Jay31 is offline
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There at least needs to be a plan in place to fix these issues properly... even if it does involve re-laying all of the track or replacing major components on the trains. There are no doubt ways to do it that would not involve shutting down the entire system at any given time - or at least minimizing that downtime. The cost of the extra maintenance to keep these trains in service, based on the TSB report must be through the roof... and the potential for more costs in the event of another accident need to be considered.

My biggest concern is that there's a large percentage of Ottawa (the majority based one election results) that views public transit as entirely a cost to minimize. Most people who have other options (ie not poor/seniors/kids) drive. I think it's partly a miracle that there ever was he political will to build such a system in Ottawa... it was long overdue based on the daily bus jams downtown. Now that it's having a lot of problems (largely due to cheeping out on the original design), I am concerned about the political will for future transit projects - or even to fix this one.

For what it's worth, when the system works (as it has every time I've tried to use it... no a regular commuter though), I think it's amazing. This style of train should make it easier/cost effective to extend the system out to all corners of what is a very distributed city. It needs to be safe and reliable though.
     
     
  #16173  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 11:33 PM
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Ottawa LRT is safe, but transit boss says extra precautions can't be used long term
Transit general manager says permanent LRT fixes needed by Stage 2 opening

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Feb 16, 2023 4:47 PM EST | Last Updated: 2 hours ago


Ottawa's light rail system is safe for riders but short-term fixes can't be used for decades, the city's transit general manager said Thursday, one day after the Transportation Safety Board warned about the light rail vehicles.

The safety board (TSB) has studied what caused an axle to break off a train wheel in August 2021 leading to a derailment, as well as a related vibration issue an operator observed the following summer. In its most recent letter to the city, the TSB said some component failures could be due to the design of the Alstom Citadis Spirit vehicle, which was a new model made to the city's specifications.

Transit general manager Renée Amilcar briefed councillors Thursday about the TSB letter during the very first meeting of the city's newly formed light rail sub-committee. She also took questions from reporters.

"It's safe to take the train right now," Amilcar said. "I took the train yesterday, and I will take the train again and again and again."

The risks laid out in the letter are being alleviated, she said.

The city's private-sector maintenance group — Rideau Transit Maintenance and its subcontractor Alstom — are performing extra inspections that require a lot of staff, the trains are travelling at lower speeds, and many train axles are being replaced much earlier as a precaution, said Amilcar.

While she said those steps allow the city to "live with the risk," the situation can't go on for long.

Amilcar wants the axle bearing problems fixed by the time the Confederation Line's eastern leg to Trim Station opens in late 2024 or early 2025.

That's part of the reason why the City of Ottawa settled maintenance disputes with Rideau Transit Group, she said. The deal includes a commitment by RTG to fix issues for the long term, although city officials have said the public will never learn the terms of that settlement.

Asked whether the City of Ottawa would consider changing train models, or cancelling its order for more Alstom Citadis Spirit trams for Stage 2 extensions east and west, city officials said no.

All but about 20 of the 72 light rail vehicles for Stage 2 have already arrived, said Amilcar. If the root cause analysis of the axle problem suggests a particular fix, all Alstom vehicles will need to be fixed, she said.

Similarly, if that analysis has suggestions for the tracks currently being laid by Stage 2 contractor KEV, they can be fixed with a rail grinder, added the city's rail construction director Michael Morgan.

The new light rail sub-committee's role is to have oversight of rail construction, but it's also responsible for ensuring the City of Ottawa follows up on recommendations from the LRT Public Inquiry report released last November.

Of those 103 recommendations, 95 are directed at the city and Rideau Transit Group. Amilcar promised to have a full action plan by the next meeting in March.

Coun. Shawn Menard tabled a motion Thursday to address one of the inquiry's main findings: the decision-making authority that council had delegated to staff for Stage 1 LRT.

The public inquiry found former transit boss John Manconi and former city manager Steve Kanellakos withheld details of the train's final testing in the summer of 2019.

The sub-committee agreed staff should have to provide regular updates on how they use that authority, and "material amendments" to light rail contracts would have to be brought to council for approval.

Menard's move to revoke the city manager's authority to change the criteria for the final trial running for Stage 2 LRT, leading up to the city taking over those extensions, failed in a 4 to 2 vote.

"I am concerned about that 'go/no go' decision, and I want to ensure that council is kept fully informed," said Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper, who supported Menard. "Council has been burned once. The residents of Ottawa have been burned."

But Coun. Glen Gower, who also chairs the transit commission, said some decisions can be politicized if left only to city council. Gower, Cathy Curry, Steve Desroches and Tim Tierney voted against revoking that authority.

During the meeting, Amilcar had promised to provide emails to council every day during the trial running for Stage 2.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/light-rail-subcommittee-first-meeting-tbs-letter-1.6750740
     
     
  #16174  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 11:34 PM
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'It is safe to ride the train,' OC Transpo general manager assures travellers following safety board report on LRT issues
The city's director for engineering services acknowledged the LRT is in "catch-up mode" when it comes to the troubled wheel and bearing assemblies

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Feb 16, 2023 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 2 minute read


Renée Amilcar, Ottawa’s transit general manager, has assured travellers that OC Transpo’s LRT trains are safe and that the city is working hard to find a permanent solution to axle troubles that have bedevilled the Confederation Line since its launch.

“It is safe to ride the train,” Amilcar said Thursday, as the city’s new LRT sub-committee met for the first time.

“I took the train yesterday and I will take it again and again and again,” Amilcar said.

On Wednesday, the city released its response to a Rail Safety Advisory it received earlier this month from the Transportation Safety Board.

The advisory warned that cartridge assemblies, which house the bearings for the trains’ wheel and axle, are wearing out and breaking for a multitude of reasons. The cartridge assemblies “continue to pose a risk to safety until the issues are resolved,” the TSB advisory said. It was dated Feb. 3.

The LRT sub-committee was formed as a result of last summer’s damning inquiry into breakdowns and derailments of the LRT system. On Thursday, it also heard the city’s response to the advisory.

The city has stepped up its inspections of the cartridge assemblies in response to the TSB’s recommendations, replacing vulnerable ones after 175,000 km of travel and conducting thorough inspections of some components as frequently as every 3,750 km. It’s also reduced speeds on curves to reduce wear and tear.

Inspections would take place about every 10 days of normal train use on the current 12.5 km track. Each inspection takes about a day to complete, said Director for Engineering Services Richard Holder.

Holder acknowledged the LRT is in “catch-up mode” when it comes to the troubled wheel and bearing assemblies.

“But the plan is to find a solid solution so that we have a permanent fix and we can start to remove some of those more extreme measures that we have in place, such as the TSRs (temporary speed reductions), Holder said.

“Because we want to get back up to full speed with the vehicles and we want to remove all the additional maintenance and replacement of the axles as well.”

The safety advisory also recommended that the city install heat monitors on the wheel assemblies to warn of imminent failures. The problem with that, Holder said, is that the technology doesn’t exist for a light rail vehicle like Ottawa’s Citadis Spirit.

Instead, some trains have been equipped with vibration sensors to warn when there’s a problem and the city plans to outfit the entire fleet soon.

Meanwhile, engineers are studying all aspects of the system to figure out the root cause for two derailments in 2021 and a “near-catastrophic” failure of a cartridge assembly in July 2022.

“There are hazards and risks associated with huge infrastructure projects like the LRT. We’re constantly responding to how the system is performing and if we need to make changes to the measures we have in place, we will do that,” Holder said.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-safety-board-report-on-lrt-wheel-issues
     
     
  #16175  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 2:21 PM
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Can the Confederation Line be both safe and pose a risk? Apparently, yes
While TSB and OC Transpo agree LRT is safe, there are still few details on what a long-term fix might be

Joanne Chianello · CBC
Posted: Feb 17, 2023 7:11 AM EST | Last Updated: 2 hours ago


"The O-Train is safe," the head of OC Transpo found herself saying Thursday. "I personally took the train yesterday from my house to the office … and I will take the train again, and again, and again."

Speaking at the inaugural meeting of council's new LRT oversight group, Renée Amilcar said that OC Transpo wouldn't let the Confederation Line operate if she had even the tiniest worry about the system's safety.

"J'aime ma vie," she said, to chuckles from LRT subcommittee members.

That the general manager of the city's transit department would have to say any of this out loud — and repeatedly — isn't a good sign. But it was a necessary reassurance after a report from the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) found that the mechanical failures that led to a derailment in August 2021 and a potential one last summer "pose a risk to safety."

So can a light-rail system that poses a potential safety risk also be safe? Apparently, yes.

Even the TSB says so.

"I'd ride it myself," Robert Johnston, TSB's regional manager of rail operations, told CBC.

But he said there is still "the risk of reoccurring, of another failure" of one — or more — of the parts that make the wheels go round, including the axle and the roller bearings.



In the August 2021 derailment, a wheel was severed from the axle due to a "catastrophic bearing failure," according to the TSB. In July 2022, an inspection that took place only after an operator noticed some weird vibration found that an axle hub was so severely damaged it would also have failed completely — possibly causing another derailment —if it had remained in service.

Johnston pointed out that the axle hub failure from last July happened within the regular planned maintenance. That's why soon after the incident, transit officials and Rideau Transit Group (RTG) implemented a much stricter inspection and part-replacement timetable.

"You're talking about scrapping components at 175,000 kilometres that should last 1.2 million kilometres," said Johnston.

He said the city has made a "substantial effort" to mitigate the risks, which is why he and others say the Confederation Line is safe to ride.

Still, these expensive Band-Aid measures can't continue for decades.

RTG's maintenance arm is paid between $4 million and $5 million a month to maintain the LRT, but it can't keep eating the costs of these extraordinary measures forever. More to the point, customers shouldn't have to use a light-rail system that a federal safety board says still carries a risk of mechanical failure, or ride a train that slows down substantially when it goes around curves in an effort to keep train parts from conking out.

The good news is everyone agrees the wheel-axle related parts are a problem. The bad news is no one seems to know for sure why it's happening, let alone what to do about it.

The TSB report points to the actual design of the train cars as a possible reason for the failures. French train-maker Alstom designed the Citadis Spirit specifically to Ottawa's specifications. It's longer, heavier and goes faster than a normal light-rail vehicle, or tram.

The parts used in Ottawa's trains, which the TSB found were built to the manufacturer's specifications, worked fine in other Alstom models. And investigators found nothing wrong with individual components, rather "damage was widely spread throughout the assemblies."

And at the end of the day, said Johnston, what's different in Ottawa's case is the Citadis Spirit design. It may be that the heft of our trains is causing more torque, leading to accelerated wear and tear on parts.

One key TSB recommendation the city has resisted has to do with heat-detection systems. As far back as September 2021, the safety board has urged the city to install monitors that could warn of overheating in the roller bearing assemblies. And the TSB was pushing the monitors in its most recent letter, too.

Up until now, the city and Alstom have argued that the heat-detection monitors work with heavy freight trains, like the ones used by Via Rail. The design of the light-rail vehicle doesn't allow for the monitors. Instead, OC Transpo and RTG are trying out vibration monitors — there are 10 installed already, with more on order.

This week though, OC Transpo's director of engineering services has changed his tune.

Richard Holder told the LRT subcommittee that given the TSB found an elevated heat level in the axle assembly in last summer's problem train, he's reconsidering the use of heat detectors. Where he'll find them is unclear, as he told councillors staff cannot find another light-rail system in North America or Europe that uses these types of monitors.

But everyone seems to be throwing every idea they've got at the problem.

According to Amilcar, the city and RTG and Alstom are meeting weekly. Consultants TRA are brought into the discussion when necessary. RTG has promised to provide more technical support as part of a recent legal settlement agreement that saw the city make retroactive maintenance payments.

While TSB has looked at the train components, others are reviewing track infrastructure, the rail itself, switches, even the lubrication that's used.

And the National Research Council has been hired to look at the interaction between the wheel and the rail, which was raised as a possible cause of the component failures, including during the light-rail public inquiry.

Interestingly, TSB's Johnston told CBC he doesn't think there's anything wrong with wheel-track interface because if there was, "you would have cars derailing in curves … and we're not seeing any evidence of that at all."

All to say there's hardly consensus on how to fix this thing. The deadline? Before the eastern Stage 2 extension opens in 2025. But no long-term solutions can be put in place until the root cause analysis is complete and there's no timeline yet for that — a full 18 months after the first derailment.

In the meantime, Confederation Line riders have little choice except to use a light-rail system that is safe, but nevertheless still carries a potential risk.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-safe-risk-permanent-fix-1.6750837
     
     
  #16176  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 3:34 PM
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Just because there is risk of another incident doesn't mean that such an incident would likely result personal cause injury. Even if there was, the risk of injury is likely smaller than the risk people take driving on the Queensway. The bigger consequence is likely the loss of service resulting from an incident.
     
     
  #16177  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2023, 8:12 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Just because there is risk of another incident doesn't mean that such an incident would likely result personal cause injury. Even if there was, the risk of injury is likely smaller than the risk people take driving on the Queensway. The bigger consequence is likely the loss of service resulting from an incident.
     
     
  #16178  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 2:14 PM
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The terms of the LRT settlement between the city and Rideau Transit Group are off-limits to the public. Why?
Lawyers explained to this newspaper that parties to a settlement can theoretically negotiate anything — including the public disclosure of its terms

Taylor Blewett, Ottawa Citizen
Published Feb 22, 2023 • Last updated 2 hours ago • 5 minute read


Ottawa residents are seeing the reset of a historically hostile relationship between the city and its LRT system Confederation Line contractor, Rideau Transit Group.

At least a dozen LRT inquiry recommendations will be implemented, according to the mayor’s office, thanks to a recent settlement that ended the legal battle that began with a notice of contract default the city issued to Rideau Transit Group (RTG) after the 2021 LRT derailments.

The consortium has come up with a “rigorous plan” to address the issues that led to the instances of train-track disconnect.

But what Ottawa residents won’t be told by officials is just what was given up to get to this point. Nor can they get eyes on the exact details of the wins the city walked away with when the two parties reached an agreement last month that resolved “several issues” between them.

It’s the nature of settlement confidentiality, a standard feature of negotiated ends to disputes — though not actually a requirement in law.

Lawyers explained to this newspaper that parties to a settlement can theoretically negotiate anything, including the public disclosure of its terms.

Practically, though, lawyer Stéphane Émard-Chabot — a former city councillor who practices municipal law — said he imagines non-confidentiality would have been a non-starter for RTG, for business reasons.

“Nobody in the private sector wants all their other clients to know what they’re willing to give up,” he said.

RTG referred questions from this newspaper about the confidentiality of the settlement to the city. RTG is a partnership of ACS Infrastructure Canada, EllisDon and SNC-Lavalin.

Even though she also suspects that insisting on the settlement terms being public would have killed the chance of arriving at one — or at least, resulted in an otherwise diminished deal — Champ & Associates lawyer Emilie Taman hopes that council members were given sufficient information to satisfy themselves that the value they were getting in exchange for confidentiality was worth it.

“It is a very ubiquitous, kind of standard expectation that an agreement would be confidential, but it’s not a requirement.”

Based on interviews this newspaper conducted with multiple council members, it appears there was no significant discussion of the possibility of making the settlement terms public during the five-hour in-camera legal briefing that preceded its finalization.

Ultimately, council voted unanimously to delegate authority to city staff to go ahead with executing a binding settlement, in line with the terms that had been presented during the closed meeting.

“I think everybody around the table, like all my colleagues, understands why these things remain confidential,” said Wilson Lo, the councillor for Barrhaven East. His own thinking was that the city and RTG probably wouldn’t have reached the settlement they did if its specifics were to be made public.

Capital ward Coun. Shawn Menard said he thinks that because council has been dealing with these legal matters in closed session at all times, “that’s what was just assumed, that those things would remain in-camera.”

Rideau-Vanier’s Coun. Stéphanie Plante said her main focus with the settlement was making sure that none of the recommendations from the LRT public inquiry would be compromised by how the city proceeded, and she got that reassurance. As for whether it matters that it’s private, in large part, she said it would — if it mattered to her constituents. She hadn’t received a word of correspondence on the matter.

The official secrecy around the specifics of the agreement hasn’t stopped some information about its contents from coming into public view.

Citing confidential sources, CBC Ottawa reported that the city agreed to retroactively pay a portion of the $65 million it withheld from RTG’s maintenance affiliate between September 2019 and the end of 2022. Among the concessions by RTG was a promise to hire about a dozen people by spring “to provide more service to the city,” CBC reported.

The settlement announcement, jointly released by the city and RTG on Jan. 27, says it advances “the goal of improved collaboration and partnership as recommended in the OLRT Public Inquiry Commission Report.” It also states RTG’s commitment to “a sustainable resolution” of the derailment-causing issues, for all Confederation Line vehicles, before the opening of the eastern LRT extension.

In a statement sent to this newspaper, the mayor’s office said the settlement implements “at least a dozen” of the recommendations that came out of the public inquiry into the Confederation Line project, “and is in the best interests of the residents of Ottawa and passengers of OC Transpo, both from a financial perspective and in terms of the future operations of the light rail system.”

As for whether it would be indicated at any point which of the commission’s recommendations this settlement makes good on, a statement from city solicitor David White offered nothing to suggest this information would materialize.

Among what White did note was that “the courts have recognized that confidentiality is a very important component of the settlement process and that, in fact, it is in the public interest to protect the confidential nature of settlements.

“In doing so, it encourages the settlement of disputes, rather than prolonging them through litigation.”

For Ottawa Transit Riders co-founder and board member Stuart MacKay, the implicit ask in this confidential agreement — “just trust us,” as he put it — is tough to swallow after the last four years.

The LRT inquiry revealed failures of transparency and accountability, MacKay notes, and what followed was lots of talk, including from the new council and interim city manager, about the importance of both and the need to restore public trust.

“But the first major LRT issue out of the gate this year is a deal with no details and tons of unanswered questions about the LRT going forward.”

To Riverside South-Findlay Creek Coun. Steve Desroches, the settlement is one “that puts the ugliness behind us,” in line with what Justice William Hourigan’s final report recommended the city and RTG try to do. Desroches chairs the city’s new LRT subcommittee, set up in the days that followed the release of the inquiry report to increase council attention to the light rail file.

“We’re going to do our best to bring into the public domain what we can and shed greater light on this project going forward,” said Desroches.

But when it comes to last month’s agreement, is it fair to criticize the confidentiality of the settlement?

Taman thinks so.

“We don’t know, we’ll probably never know, what extra value we got by virtue of this having been a confidential settlement,” she said. “Given the very legitimate public distrust in how the city has dealt with the LRT project from the beginning, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for residents to have a lot of questions and to feel unsatisfied by the lack of answers.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...t-group-are-off-limits-to-the-public-why
     
     
  #16179  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 4:52 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Just because there is risk of another incident doesn't mean that such an incident would likely result personal cause injury. Even if there was, the risk of injury is likely smaller than the risk people take driving on the Queensway. The bigger consequence is likely the loss of service resulting from an incident.
I would agree. The risk to life and limb from the wheel/axle-bearing problems is likely quite small. It would not keep me from using the LRT for that reason. However, I think that the TSB is correct in that the danger of mechanical ‘catastrophic’ failure persists, despite the checks that RTM is doing. Could those break-downs threaten passenger wellbeing? Yes, there is a slight chance – but the trains have been shown, by the NRC, to be very stable. It is unlikely that a single-wheel derailment, although ‘catastrophic’ in one sense, would do much more than damage infrastructure.

That said, such an incident would be very disruptive for many who rely on transit, and would further tarnish its reputation.

My lament is that the City immediately jumped into ‘Cover its butt’ mode. It NEEDED to prove to the public that it hadn’t bought a ‘Lemon’, and that the trains that it runs are perfectly safe. The city immediately denied what the TSB was saying in a knee-jerk defensive reaction. To me, this was exactly the wrong direction to go.

The TSB gave the city a golden opportunity to put the strongest pressure yet on Alstom. An independent safety board had openly declared that the LRT vehicles have a possible design flaw that creates safety risks to the public. This is what the city should have run with. All of the trains should have been pulled IMMEDIATELY, and every media outlet that could be reached should have been given the story that the ALSTOM vehicles were UNSAFE for use. And, when I say ALSTOM, I mean that Alstom’s name needed to be used, not RTG/RTM.

Remember, these vehicles are Alstom’s attempt to get into the North American market. If Ottawa had made a huge issue of the vehicles being unsafe, it could have hurt Alstom’s future sales. I believe that such bad press would have forced Alstom to take rapid action. And I don’t think that it would have been enough for Alstom to have simply put out a press release saying that the trains were safe. Alstom would have had to issue a recall and redesign the wheel/axle-bearing. It would have needed to be seen to be responsive and that it actively fixed the problem. That would have been the only way for Alstom to save future sales.

Instead, Ottawa went into its usual self-defense position and declared that the trains are perfectly safe – nothing to see here, move along. Ottawa bailed Alstom out of a potential pressure situation where they would have had to act. Now it is ‘Continue as usual’. That means that RTM will remain on the hook for millions in extra cost.

I think that RTM has, actually, gotten a lot of bad press that should have been directed at Alstom. Because RTM sub-contracted the vehicle maintenance to Alstom, it seems that it is RTM that is publicly on the hook for the vehicle’s problems. When many more axles are purchased (from Alstom) because they need replacing at 15% of their predicted life, it is RTM that foots the bill. Alstom is, no doubt, happy for the extra part sales. RTM is also the one stuck paying Alstom for all of the extra maintenance work that needs to be done. So, with Alstom getting wind-fall cash from labour and parts, and not getting any of the bad press – which the city has been directing at RTG/RTM – what is the impetus for Alstom to actually change anything? Is it any wonder that Alstom has taken so long looking into the root cause of the failures, but still has not come up with any answers?
     
     
  #16180  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 5:41 PM
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The biggest problem of all is having our transit backbone running across the city at 30 kph in the longer term. This needs to be resolved.
     
     
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