Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Why do some people on here think that if someone is Québécois(e) then he/she has to be francophone?

Both francophones and anglophones may make that shortcut in fact.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Of course.

You do see stickers like these here and there BTW:

https://imperatif-francais.org/produit/au-quebec-cest-en-francais-que-ca-se-passe/

I remember a few years ago there was a worker at a ticket booth in a Montreal métro station who put one up, and someone filed a human rights complaint about it!

It's not as ethnicist as the sign in Dilbeek though. Anyone can be a French speaker.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's not as ethnicist as the sign in Dilbeek though. Anyone can be a French speaker.

Indeed. Québécois aren't dumb, and know this full well.

[New Brisavoine]

^^So why do they file a human rights complaint then?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^So why do they file a human rights complaint then?

Anglo-Montrealers being Anglo-Montrealers.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Anglo-Montrealers being Anglo-Montrealers.

No different than a flawlessly bilingual Acadian being pulled over for speeding on Campobello Island and demanding service en francais from the local constable.

Just an Acadian New Brunswicker being an Acadian New Brunswicker

[kwoldtimer]

You've gotta fight for your right ....

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You've gotta fight for your right ....

Indeed. And this works both ways

[Acajack]

Indeed it does.

Though the right to French service from federal police (RCMP) is entrenched in law in Canada. The right to not seeing a "Québec français" sign in a métro station in Montreal is not. Actually the right to municipal services (which is what the métro is) in the language of your choice is not entrenched in law either.

I've been waiting for someone to bring up the Air Canada "7 Up" case this morning, which while it appears ridiculous on the surface, also involves legally-enforced rights to service in either official language.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You've gotta fight for your right ....

...to pa-a-a-a-rrtayyy!!!

I couldn't not finish that...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Do you really want Biden to deliver his speech in Polish? That could lead to unexpected consequences.

After all, John F. Kennedy tried this once in Berlin in the early 1960s and ended up calling himself a donut.

True story, my gf (now ex) was learning German and was attenting a basic German class at the university back then, she had a homework about professions, and, relying on her little pocket dictionary, for "I am a lawyer", almost wrote "Ich bin ein Avocado"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Why do some people on here think that if someone is Québécois(e) then he/she has to be francophone?

For the same reason Joe Biden in Poland does not make a very convincing local

(Poland, like Quebec, has one official language.)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though the right to French service from federal police (RCMP) is entrenched in law in Canada. The right to not seeing a "Québec français" sign in a métro station in Montreal is not. Actually the right to municipal services (which is what the métro is) in the language of your choice is not entrenched in law either.

Funny thing is, we all know filing a human rights complaint about a friggin' sticker (or putting up a non-official sticker to prompt negative feelings, for that matter) is just an attempt to stir the pot, just like complaining that Biden isn't giving a speech in Polish. Nonsensical actions or statements purely designed to get a reaction and deepen the divide.

Some people just don't want to live in symbiosis (so to speak), they just want to air their grievances and fuel the fire. IMHO it's much of the reason that society worldwide is deteriorating. If we're not careful (we're not), there is the possibility that it can sink to some very low levels and mistakes of the past could be repeated (i.e. what happened in Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, for example).

TBH, what annoys me about some of these posts is focusing on what language is being spoken and not the contents of the speech (and speech from other, more aggressive nations). The rhetoric surrounding it all is damn chilling, but instead we've got to complain about languages...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Hali87

On the other hand I think critics would be critics but ultimately a French leader giving a speech in French in a country where a lot of people speak French is not very controversial (in and of itself). If they did that in Tokyo, well, most of the crowd wouldn't understand French, but they probably would understand English (roughly as well as the average French politician might). Is the leader of Japan expected to speak fluent French, German, Italian and Flemish (+Polish, Czech, Greek, Estonian, Swedish, etc) every time they visit the EU?

Yeah, any apples-to-apples comparison needs to take into account the familiarity of the locals with the language used.

A rough analogy would be Emmanuel Macron giving a speech in Moncton (or in Dilbeek) only in French.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

And real great statesman make a point of delivering their speeches in the local tongue.

De Gaulle learned by heart his speeches in foreign tongues, even those he wasn't fluent in. For example here in Mexico:

Or Churchill in Strasbourg:

Nearly everyone on this forum deplores we don't have the caliber of politicians we used to. You're totally preaching to the choir.

When Justin Trudeau makes a speech in Tokyo, we're just glad when he doesn't say he's "thankful to be here in China". You'd want him to learn a speech in Japanese by heart?!?!? (this is actually hilarious, I'm seriously chuckling at the ridiculousness of the suggestion)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Some people just don't want to live in symbiosis (so to speak), they just want to air their grievances and fuel the fire. IMHO it's much of the reason that society worldwide is deteriorating. If we're not careful (we're not), there is the possibility that it can sink to some very low levels and mistakes of the past could be repeated (i.e. what happened in Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, for example).
.

I sense the same things as you, though I don't really think that something like the rise of Nazi Germany is really what's in store for us.

Every historical malaise is unique in a way, and this one has its own characteristics.

I think you touched upon some of them when you hint at extreme individualism, or at least segmentation. It sometimes seems like every person or at least every in-group considers themselves to be their own "nation" or even "planet".

In France these days they refer to this phenomenon as the "atomisaiton" of society.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yeah, any apples-to-apples comparison needs to take into account the familiarity of the locals with the language used.

A rough analogy would be Emmanuel Macron giving a speech in Moncton (or in Dilbeek) only in French.

Apparently, 50% of Poles can speak English. Though these numbers are often inflated and over-estimate just how good people are in their second language.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Apparently, 50% of Poles can speak English. Though these numbers are often inflated and over-estimate just how good people are in their second language.

That's not even the point.

Pretty sure that if Russian hordes were at Québec's doorstep somehow, we'd welcome the POTUS coming here to announce he has billions of dollars in tanks and artillery for us, in English only. We'd even be okay with it if the tanks and artillery pieces in question turn out to have unilingual English labels and stickers!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's not even the point.

Pretty sure that if Russian hordes were at Québec's doorstep somehow, we'd welcome the POTUS coming here to announce he has billions of dollars in tanks and artillery for us, in English only. We'd even be okay with it if the tanks and artillery pieces in question turn out to have unilingual English labels and stickers!

Bien sûr..

[lio45]

It's Biden who is doing the Poles a favor here, more than the other way around, IMO. So it's normal that the Poles "have to compromise" a bit (by having Biden just use the global lingua franca, which he happens to speak, rather than impress everyone with a speech in Polish learned by heart, de Gaulle/Churchill-style).

The Leader of the Free World has no direct equivalent but let's find another global Big Shot, say Xi Jinping (closest analogy), who makes room in his busy schedule to come make a speech here in Québec, after 50% of Québécois have bragged they speak Mandarin in the last census (whether they do or not is their problem), and he comes here and speaks only in Mandarin -- and tells us the things we wanted to hear from him.

Would we complain? No, I'm pretty sure we'd actually be happy and thankful that he visited.