Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

He'd find it normal, if the context justified such a remark.

(If I may speak for him.)

For a realistic example, if he bought a house in the northern exurbs of Bruxelles and moved there, given that no one in his family speaks any Dutch/Flemish, I'm sure some of your distant cousins would deem him "an enemy", we don't even need an alternate/fictional universe to find an example.

Almost all of us are natural "enemies" of Indigenous languages and cultures as well.

In fact, even a majority of Indigenous people themselves could be said to be de facto "enemies" of Indigenous languages and cultures, because most of them in Canada don't speak these languages, and speak English and sometimes French instead. (In that their systematic use of non-Indigenous languages constantly weakens the presence and viability of traditional tongues.)

[MonctonRad]

Also a deflection.

Remember the five rules of dodgeball - Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Because he strongly advocates for Quebec sovereignty (which is sort of "meddling" since he is not Canadian/Quebecois)?

the perception I have is that I am not an "ally" or "friend" (despite championing Quebec everywhere I go, and being a fiercely proud native-born son of the Province, and having my children in French immersion since kindergarten, and speaking french to them at home for several hours per week). I have actually been told that I am, defacto, an "enemy of Quebec". Because I am a Quebec Anglophone. Can you imagine if you, Acajack, were deemed an "enemy of Ontario" because of your Franco Ontarian heritage?

pisses me off immensely.

I should stay out of this thread, because nothing will ever change.

And people wonder why Harls made that remark.

We were talking about New Brisavoine, not you.

And no, I don't think his allyship is exclusively related to his apparent support for Quebec independence. Just that overall he seems to strongly support the francophone cause here. There is more than one way to support that, as you well know. But sure one of the ways that some people choose to support it is to advocate for independence.

Perhaps the most ironic thing on here is that there are probably no less than 567,567,665,267,673 posts on SSP from Canadians ranting about Donald Trump, the GOP and US politics in general, and yet one single French guy pops up on SSP and starts expressing sympathy for Quebec and advocating for independence, and somehow it's the end of the world and a diplomatic incident.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Also a deflection.

Remember the five rules of dodgeball - Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge

Not really. It's context and relativity.

BTW I do recall Lio himself saying that he could also be "an enemy of French Quebec" when he used English during certain aspects of his life in Quebec.

Again: context and relativity.

[lio45]

We are most definitely not deflecting at all.

I'd totally be seen as "an enemy" of the local indigenous culture, if I relocated in 2023 to a corner of French Guyana where that (obviously fragile) culture is under threat of being erased by the relentless pushes and encroachements of the Mainstream International French "steamroller", given that, y'know, I know nothing about Guyana, and all the culture I'd be importing there with me would all be Mainstream International French.

[harls]

Am I an enemy of Quebec (accent not used on purpose) even though I have lived half my life here? And I am typing in English?

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by harls

Am I an enemy of Quebec (accent not used on purpose) even though I have lived half my life here? And I am typing in English?

That’s for Toxliojack to judge.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by le calmar

That’s for Toxliojack to judge.

You mean NewTokliojackavoine.

In general, if you are not chez nous, then you are an enemy.

[kwoldtimer]

Give it a rest, folks.

[OldDartmouthMark]

On the basis of this logic, everybody is an enemy of somebody... so why care about it?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

On the basis of this logic, everybody is an enemy of somebody... so why care about it?

I was just gonna ask if the non-Indigenous posters (i.e. all of them) think that their simple everyday presence and habits in Canada are a positive or negative when it comes to Indigenous languages and cultures?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

On the basis of this logic, everybody is an enemy of somebody... so why care about it?

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Or, as some might prefer:

Mais moi, je vous dis: Aimez vos ennemis, bénissez ceux qui vous maudissent, faites du bien à ceux qui vous haïssent, et priez pour ceux qui vous maltraitent et qui vous persécutent,

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was just gonna ask if the non-Indigenous posters (i.e. all of them) think that their simple everyday presence and habits in Canada are a positive or negative when it comes to Indigenous languages and cultures?

Which has nothing to do with Harls releasing an uncharacteristic outburst of exasperation on the previous page, to which you expressed some consternation.

Harls is about as much of an Anglo ally as you are going to get. He's lived in your province half his life, married into the community, learned the language and sends his kids to French school. He is well on his way to assimilation, yet you do not understand why he can take offence to some of the drivel that New Brisavoine shovels in his direction.............

How is it that you do not understand???

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Which has nothing to do with Harls releasing an uncharacteristic outburst of exasperation on the previous page, to which you expressed some consternation.

Harls is about as much of an Anglo ally as you are going to get. He's lived in your province half his life, married into the community, learned the language and sends his kids to French school. He is well on his way to assimilation, yet you do not understand why he can take offence to some of the drivel that New Brisavoine shovels in his direction.............

How is it that you do not understand???

It's not at all easy to understand because New Brisavoine AFAIK has never mentioned Harls or his existence directly. Does he even know Harls exists?

In fact, New Brisavoine doesn't even talk about the anglo community of Quebec that much, and instead focuses on the way Canada as a state is structured and functions, in ways that he sees as detrimental to the interests of the francophone population.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

That’s for Toxliojack to judge.

First off, and it's kinda important, harls used enemy without quotation marks, while I always had them (and I also made sure I had it followed by context words, don't recall exactly which, but they were important too).

In the very general situation where something is threatened by something else, and you're "part of the problem", whether consciously or not, then you're "an enemy" of the something that's threatened.

If [Rare Southern Ontario Bird] is almost extinct, and the main reason for that by far is that housecats are killing them because those birds are their favorite prey, and you live in Southern Ontario, and your cat is a good hunter and you let him go outside all the time (without a bell on his collar), you're "an enemy" of that bird species, for example.

(Even if when asked, you claim to love birds.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

On the basis of this logic, everybody is an enemy of somebody... so why care about it?

If not meant as sarcasm, then: exactly!

As I said before, there are realistic scenarios where Acajack or I are "enemies" of X or Y, and that doesn't make us bad people.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Or, as some might prefer:

Mais moi, je vous dis: Aimez vos ennemis, bénissez ceux qui vous maudissent, faites du bien à ceux qui vous haïssent, et priez pour ceux qui vous maltraitent et qui vous persécutent,

"But I say unto you, love your enemies, and offer them quarts of Labatt 50, as well as pickled tongues, should they visit you"

[harls]

Originally Posted by lio45

First off, and it's kinda important, harls used enemy without quotation marks, while I always had them (and I also made sure I had it followed by context words, don't recall exactly which, but they were important too).

"Ok"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

"Ok"

*He* speaks!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Or, as some might prefer:

Mais moi, je vous dis: Aimez vos ennemis, bénissez ceux qui vous maudissent, faites du bien à ceux qui vous haïssent, et priez pour ceux qui vous maltraitent et qui vous persécutent,

Oh, I totally believe in "live and let live", "love your fellow neighbour", "treat others as you would like to be treated" and all that, but it doesn't change the question.

It seems that we as a society now tend to focus more on our individual differences than what we may have in common, so I ask if people are looked at as being an enemy for just being who they are (and providing some sort of influence based on who they are), why should we care? Just be you and let them be them...