[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[MonctonRad]

This petition is not worth the paper it is written on.

1) - the decision has been made. What precisely is it that they hope to accomplish (aside from intimidating the developer).
2) - the people circulating the petition are being dishonest regarding the "harms" of the development. They seem to be portraying it as low income housing which will be infested with addicts and criminals. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is a high quality development (certainly far better than the weed infested vacant lot there now), and any affordable units being made available is being done at the city's request.
3) - they are circulating the petition throughout the entire neighbourhood, even to households as much as 10 blocks distant from the proposed development. These people would not be affected in any way by the height and scale of this building.
4) - it appears that the petitioners are being very aggressive as mentioned by bam63 above. Some people may be being intimidated into signing this petition, just to get the petitioner off their doorstep.
5) - also as previously noted, many people sign petitions just to be "nice", without really realized the implications of what it is that they are signing.

They may have more than 300 signatures on the petition, but I betcha no more than a couple of dozen people are truly passionate in their objections.

The developer would be well served to ignore this petition and to carry on with his original plans. He already has approval. He can do whatever he wants.........

[benvui]

someone should go through with a petition in support of the 10 story apartment building and see how many of those people sign both.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Someone should throw tomatoes at her house. This lady is delusional. If I was the developer I’d offer to buy her house too just to shut her up. Or buy her a gift card to Sobeys so she can get her tomatoes there. In essence, subsidizing her tomatoes production. I can’t believe how anti development some people are.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This petition is not worth the paper it is written on.

1) - the decision has been made. What precisely is it that they hope to accomplish (aside from intimidating the developer).
2) - the people circulating the petition are being dishonest regarding the "harms" of the development. They seem to be portraying it as low income housing which will be infested with addicts and criminals. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is a high quality development (certainly far better than the weed infested vacant lot there now), and any affordable units being made available is being done at the city's request.
3) - they are circulating the petition throughout the entire neighbourhood, even to households as much as 10 blocks distant from the proposed development. These people would not be affected in any way by the height and scale of this building.
4) - it appears that the petitioners are being very aggressive as mentioned by bam63 above. Some people may be being intimidated into signing this petition, just to get the petitioner off their doorstep.
5) - also as previously noted, many people sign petitions just to be "nice", without really realized the implications of what it is that they are signing.

They may have more than 300 signatures on the petition, but I betcha no more than a couple of dozen people are truly passionate in their objections.

The developer would be well served to ignore this petition and to carry on with his original plans. He already has approval. He can do whatever he wants.........

So what are the next steps for the developer in the process?

[adamuptownsj]

Someone should email the developer this thread.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Someone should throw tomatoes at her house.

Yes, well, I don't think anyone should be advocating for this.........

I think it is enough that we clearly point out that we do not agree with their tactics or their goals.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

So what are the next steps for the developer in the process?

The developer is free to choose between a six or a ten storey building. He has been approved for either. There is nothing the petitioners can do to prevent this.

A six storey building would likely be uneconomic as site remediation costs remain the same, regardless of the size of the building. These would be considerable as there was formerly a garage located on a portion of this property.

If he is pressured by his belligerent neighbours into choosing a six storey building, he will likely seek some compensation from the city, since he bought the land from the city presuming he could build a taller building to cover the remediation costs.

The city will be disinclined to provide this compensation, unless they chicken out in the face of the tomato revolt (which is possible). I have concerns over the intestinal fortitude of the current city council. As far as I'm concerned, this is the weak link in this entire process.

If city council remains resolute, then the developer will have to go to 10 storeys to maintain economic viability, and the current plans will proceed as is. The only remaining recourse for the tomato rebellion would be to mount a legal challenge to the city, claiming that the immediate neighbours were not properly informed regarding the size of this proposed development, and thus were unable to mount a timely challenge before approval was given. This would be the expensive nuclear option.

If the tomato brigade chooses the courts, I could see a stop work order being issued and the project delayed (just like Promenade Neuf Phase Two in Dieppe), which might cause the developer to simply walk away. To be clear, the legal challenge by the tomato people would be against the city, not the developer. A challenge like this however could be extremely expensive for the tomato people, easily in the multiple tens of thousands of dollars. Do they have the financial resources to mount this challenge?

This is the scenario as I see it.

[riverviewer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

"the tomato brigade".

The petition lady spoke on facebook, and the concern of the neighborhood is regarding the inability of the new building residents to turn left onto main from their packing lot, forcing up to 750 trips through the neighborhood looking for an eastbound egress.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The developer is free to choose between a six or a ten storey building. He has been approved for either. There is nothing the petitioners can do to prevent this.

A six storey building would likely be uneconomic as site remediation costs remain the same, regardless of the size of the building. These would be considerable as there was formerly a garage located on a portion of this property.

If he is pressured by his belligerent neighbours into choosing a six storey building, he will likely seek some compensation from the city, since he bought the land from the city presuming he could build a taller building to cover the remediation costs.

The city will be disinclined to provide this compensation, unless they chicken out in the face of the tomato revolt (which is possible). I have concerns over the intestinal fortitude of the current city council. As far as I'm concerned, this is the weak link in this entire process.

If city council remains resolute, then the developer will have to go to 10 storeys to maintain economic viability, and the current plans will proceed as is. The only remaining recourse for the tomato rebellion would be to mount a legal challenge to the city, claiming that the immediate neighbours were not properly informed regarding the size of this proposed development, and thus were unable to mount a timely challenge before approval was given. This would be the expensive nuclear option.

If the tomato brigade chooses the courts, I could see a stop work order being issued and the project delayed (just like Promenade Neuf Phase Two in Dieppe), which might cause the developer to simply walk away. To be clear, the legal challenge by the tomato people would be against the city, not the developer. A challenge like this however could be extremely expensive for the tomato people, easily in the multiple tens of thousands of dollars. Do they have the financial resources to mount this challenge?

This is the scenario as I see it.

It occured to me that this lady is enjoying the limelight and will say anything at the door/ to CBC to get her day of fame and a signature. I may not comment on her for a while and sse if she hangs herself with her foolish talk. The streets to the west of her need a facelift and the 10 storey building is a good start.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

It occured to me that this lady is enjoying the limelight and will say anything at the door/ to CBC to get her day of fame and a signature. I may not comment on her for a while and sse if she hangs herself with her foolish talk. The streets to the west of her need a facelift and the 10 storey building is a good start.

To be clear, the "Tomato Lady" is not the ringleader here. The opposition is led by Lori Barnes, daughter of the former city councillor and deputy city mayor.

[MonctonRad]

A new restaurant is coming to downtown Moncton (in the former Starbucks location)





https://www.facebook.com/AuraConstMgmt

The name of the restaurant is yet to be revealed, but it is certainly nice to see another vacancy on Main Street being filled.

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by riverviewer

The petition lady spoke on facebook, and the concern of the neighborhood is regarding the inability of the new building residents to turn left onto main from their packing lot, forcing up to 750 trips through the neighborhood looking for an eastbound egress.

North on Enterprise, East on Burlington, South on Vaughn Harvey.

Easy peasy

Thought.. maybe Hardy's Produce should open a second location in this new building. Tomatoes for days.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Riberview

maybe Hardy's Produce should open a second location in this new building. Tomatoes for days.

They could even arrange for the tomato lady to get free tomatoes for life.

[BeeTeeOH]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Someone should email the developer this thread.

I live in the area, and have shown it to him. He appreciates your enthusiasm! I have also shared the misinformation being spread by the petition lady who is desperately seeking to cancel the project.

I was accosted in my driveway by the petition lady who was adamant that I would soon be facing "750 cars" all parked everywhere around my house on Enterprise.

It's just a 10 story build - not 30. I will be able to see it from my front porch quite clearly, and I welcome some sustainability to Moncton. I love following this page and learning about how this city is planning to become better through something other than clear-cutting yet another 100 acres and expanding the car-centered hellscape. Many others in the local community Facebook pages share my enthusiasm. The Heinz Heiress does not represent us, although I do appreciate her perspective that a 10 storey building might spoil her view of the fallow empty lot and billboards.

Some speed bumps might be nice, but I honestly welcome the actual 85 additional car trips in front of my house if it means we can live in a proper city, and not just an endless suburbia.

[jonny golden]

The building will have 162 units. The petition lady said in her Facebook post that traffic would increase by up to 750 cars a day! Common sense would tell you that that's ridiculous. I really hope the developer sticks to his plans and constructs the 10 floor building. The city really needs the housing, and his intention to have 10% affordable units is admirable. It would be extremely disappointing if they back down and reduce the height to 6 just floors, especially on such a prominent downtown intersection.

[MonctonRad]

@BeeTeeOH - good post. Welcome to the forums. Feel free to contribute anytime.

[MonctonRad]

And on a different topic, stay tuned to the [Moncton] Downtown thread next week. Interesting times. Interesting times indeed............

[BeeTeeOH]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

@BeeTeeOH - good post. Welcome to the forums. Feel free to contribute anytime.

Thanks! I have been lurking for over a year now. Mainly just reading your posts to get the inside scoop. I really appreciate the welcome.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by BeeTeeOH

Thanks! I have been lurking for over a year now. Mainly just reading your posts to get the inside scoop. I really appreciate the welcome.

BeeTeeoh I lived at 38 Enterprise until I was 10 years old. Does this lady have the house on the corner of South and Atlantic?

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And on a different topic, stay tuned to the [Moncton] Downtown thread next week. Interesting times. Interesting times indeed............

I'll throw my prediction out there: The Crowne Plaza block and/or an Ashford project!