Western Expresso

[Crisis]

^^^ Exactly. At 5% unemployment, those that are really wanting to work are working. There are labour shortages in most sectors, and certainly in construction. Immigrants, especially with skills are very welcome. In my experience, even so called “unskilled” immigrants stay gainfully employed. Those are the people that are happy to do the jobs that many Canadian citizens feel are “beneath” them.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

The impact on the economy is not a one to one relationship with impact on Canadians. There's no such thing as "trickle-down economics". Most of the economic gains are going to the top. What I am saying is that Canadian companies are having a hard time hiring Canadians because they are not offering wages that Canadians are demanding, especially in a time of inflation. We don't have a labour shortage. We have a wage shortage. We have low unemployment but what is the participation rate, which is not factored into that? Less and less people are just not participating in the economy and bringing in more immigrants will not help that, and it will especially not help stagnant wages and rising economic inequality, in fact it makes it worse by diluting the labour pool.

What we need is for companies, particularly corporations, to accept less profits and less shareholder returns, and share more of that with workers. Bringing in record numbers of immigrants is only kicking the can down the road. It's a sort of pyramid scheme that will eventually collapse. Housing and healthcare certainly will become worse as we add more people that demand it as well.

We do need skilled labour, but we should make sure people here are getting the training and education they need for the demands of the market and that immigration is not used for employers to avoid paying competitive wages. Sunwing had to cancel all flights to and from Sask all because they relied on bringing in pilots from out of country last minute. This practice needs to be discouraged and companies need to start being more forward thinking and resilient in their hiring practices.

Labour participation rate has not changed much against historical norms.

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/labo...force.%20source%3A%20Statistics%20Canada

[rml]

Originally Posted by drew

^ exactly right. But don't fool yourself for a minute into thinking people with older vehicles that were often stolen (Chrysler products mostly) weren't secretly hoping their vehicles would be stolen and written off.

Why would anyone spend money to protect their 1990 Dodge Caravan from being stolen? That's right they wouldn't, so the gov't had to step in. (I had a 1990 Dodge Caravan that received to immobilizer)

From a public safety and insurance standpoint, it seems to be a no-brainer, and has had obvious, significant results.

I totally agree here. It is a no branier and should be done for everyone in my opinion. Insurance just keeps going up and up and something needs to be done about it.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Bringing in more people will keep our economy alive by diluting the labour pool with desperate immigrants will make things a lot worse for 90% of Canadians. Apparently our current immigration policy was outsourced to consultants so it makes sense they would come up with such an insane, inhuman policy.

Respite right wing nonsense, immigrants have a net benefit in terms of economic growth. They are more likely to become entrepreneurs, and fill in much needed positions, as the Canadian birth rate is not high enough to fill many job vacancies.

Inhuman policy? What on earth are you talking about? People coming from 3rd World nations and escaping wars probably consider Canada a godsend.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Under the previous NDP government the average interprovincial migration loss was 4,700 per year....excluding the COVID year, under the current government the average is 8,200.

It's been all downhill, since Gary Doer resigned as Premier.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

it suppresses wages for Canadians and it is taking advantage of a desperate person from another country. I guess you haven’t heard about the hard time recent immigrants are having finding affordable housing. Good luck trying to navigate our failed healthcare system.

How does it "suppress wages for Canadians?"
How is it "taking advantage of a desperate person from another country?"

As for affordable housing, it's a double edged sword. Unfortunately, when demand outpaces supply, price will inevitably go up. The bright side of this, is Canada is desperate for trades people, and those jobs will be filled by building new housing. Trades are very lucrative professions.

This is nothing against immigrants themselves. They deserve better. But it should not come at a cost to the people already here, who we have to remember are becoming worse off thanks to economic inequality and inflation.

If you are not Indigenous, take a seat, considering over 95% of us are immigrants, or had ancestors who were.

If you think I’m right wing, wait for the rise of the far-right thanks to this exact issue. They won’t have as much of a nuanced take as I am trying to have. This is exact thing is happening in countries like Italy, Sweden, and Hungary. If life keeps getting worse for Canadians and people have an easy scapegoat to point their fingers to, they will jump on it. Don’t say I didn’t tell you so.

Protectionist policies never work, and hinder our economic growth. Allowing immigrants into Canada could create mild backlash, but comparing us to Europe is ridiculous, and proves you are ignorant towards history, considering Native Europeans were the first people to inhabit those places, and only recently (last 50 years) have seen significant number of immigration. Canada, OTOH, saw large patterns of immigrants since Canada's inception. So far it has yet to make us the 4th Reich...lol.

[

[blueandgoldguy]

We need those immigration rates to stay high...partly to take care of that aging Baby Boomer bulge that is beginning to take up inordinate amounts of space in health care - hospital beds, long-term care homes/nursing homes, homecare. Since Gen Xers, Millennials and Gen Zers aren't having large families we need immigrants to replace and increase the number of worker within the health care field. Orderlies, nurses, doctors, surgeons, home care workers, nursing assistants.

Even with the increases in immigration numbers things will likely get worse or at best stay the same over the next 10 years in health care. It takes years to properly train health care professionals.

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

How does it "suppress wages for Canadians?"
How is it "taking advantage of a desperate person from another country?"

As for affordable housing, it's a double edged sword. Unfortunately, when demand outpaces supply, price will inevitably go up. The bright side of this, is Canada is desperate for trades people, and those jobs will be filled by building new housing. Trades are very lucrative professions.





If you are not Indigenous, take a seat, considering over 95% of us are immigrants, or had ancestors who were.



Protectionist policies never work, and hinder our economic growth. Allowing immigrants into Canada could create mild backlash, but comparing us to Europe is ridiculous, and proves you are ignorant towards history, considering Native Europeans were the first people to inhabit those places, and only recently (last 50 years) have seen significant number of immigration. Canada, OTOH, saw large patterns of immigrants since Canada's inception. So far it has yet to make us the 4th Reich...lol.

[

The racists have always reared their ugly head on the left, not the right. KKK, Jim Crow and segregation…all leftist. The only reasonable historical claim to the right being racist was a group that had “socialist” in their name; and we know who that was.

Canada and Winnipeg needs more people, plain and simple. It’s good for everyone and keeps the economy moving forward. Stagnation stifles everything.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I am not against bringing in skilled people we actually need. But it needs to be planned a bit better than it currently is. Otherwise we are just going to keep running into the problem we have now. We also have to look at the policies we have that are keeping Canadians out of these jobs, such as the foreign trained doctors who are unable to get residencies here.

I am also not against immigration, especially accepting refugees and those seeking asylum. I am just against immigration being used to serve the economic interests of the few so they don't have to offer better wages, training, benefits, and conditions for people already here.

"In 1967, Canada became the first country to use a “point system” for immigration. This type of immigration system also referred to as a “merit system”, uses the method of earning points with specific criteria in a scoring system to determine the eligibility of a noncitizen applicant for Canadian citizenship."

"Basically, Canada uses the point system because it helps them to recruit the much needed skilled immigrates for their workforce to replace the aging population and shrinking labor force."

https://newcanadianlife.com/why-does-can...applicant%20for%20Canadian%20citizenship.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

The racists have always reared their ugly head on the left, not the right. KKK, Jim Crow and segregation…all leftist. The only reasonable historical claim to the right being racist was a group that had “socialist” in their name; and we know who that was.

lol holy — read a book son

"KKK is leftist" jesus christ

The KKK was founded by confederates and then revived in direct opposition to the leftist civil rights movement

[BlackDog204]

You're right. My ancestors were immigrants. And I think colonialism is wrong. But a deluge of more immigrants is not going to solve the crime that colonialism was especially when the wrongs committing on our Indigenous population continue to be felt today.



I think you might be projecting a bit here. Canada is not some super friendly and liberal nation. This idea that we are so great is a mirage. Ask the Indigenous people we wiped out literally or culturally what they think. Ask the Chinese people that built our railroads what they think. Our imperialism continues to this day, as the country with the most mining companies based here (mining companies are notorious for exploiting foreign countries and their populations). When it comes to grassroots fascism, well, you are not paying attention. For example, Gavin McGuiness, the founder of the Proud Boys, is from Canada. Jordan Peterson, who is quickly becoming the spokesperson for neo-fascism, is also from Canada. Personally, I see and hear actual racism all the time personally from people in my own family and workplace. Fascist ideals are becoming more and more acceptable and popular. It is growing, more so in the States, but it it is here as well. Trust me. Immigration isn't causing it. But it can fuel it because fascists always need an other to point to.

As for economic growth, again, I think we need to forgo that as the driver of our society. Not just for ethical reasons, but practical reasons. This is a topic for another day, however.

This could be the most "woke" post ever.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Because immigrants are more likely to accept lower paying jobs, considering they have fewer supports here and often in a desperate situation. Do you not notice who makes up most low skill jobs these days? There is a trickle-up effect to this because all employers compete for workers in the same labour pool. This is why a higher minimum wage is good for most workers.



See above. The TFW programs is an extreme example of this. There are many cases of workers being abused by this program.



The disconnect between the federal government which decides immigration policy and cities, which decide housing policy, is miles apart. The "free market" is not going to solve this. The federal government should be working with municipalities and provinces on this but they are not.



You're right. My ancestors were immigrants. And I think colonialism is wrong. But a deluge of more immigrants is not going to solve the crime that colonialism was especially when the wrongs committing on our Indigenous population continue to be felt today.



I think you might be projecting a bit here. Canada is not some super friendly and liberal nation. This idea that we are so great is a mirage. Ask the Indigenous people we wiped out literally or culturally what they think. Ask the Chinese people that built our railroads what they think. Our imperialism continues to this day, as the country with the most mining companies based here (mining companies are notorious for exploiting foreign countries and their populations). When it comes to grassroots fascism, well, you are not paying attention. For example, Gavin McGuiness, the founder of the Proud Boys, is from Canada. Jordan Peterson, who is quickly becoming the spokesperson for neo-fascism, is also from Canada. Personally, I see and hear actual racism all the time personally from people in my own family and workplace. Fascist ideals are becoming more and more acceptable and popular. It is growing, more so in the States, but it it is here as well. Trust me. Immigration isn't causing it. But it can fuel it because fascists always need an other to point to.

As for economic growth, again, I think we need to forgo that as the driver of our society. Not just for ethical reasons, but practical reasons. This is a topic for another day, however.

I want to object a little to the source you used to support your argument that Canada is accepting of fascist views. It seems that fascist in the sense described by the author means "people I disagree with politically".

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I am aware of our immigration policies. I have had friends go through the process. You are missing the point. We don’t have a labour shortage that needs to be cured with immigration. We have a wage shortage and a shortage of employers who want to make a proper investment into their workforce instead of treating them like cogs in a machine (ie the airlines are a perfect example of this). Bringing in a record 400k immigrants like we did last year is going to have tremendous costs on our already failing infrastructure and institutions. The whole idea that we need more taxpayers is bunk. We need higher earning individuals and companies to pay MORE in taxes. Absence of that and making meaningful improvements to healthcare, education, housing, and overall profiteering and greed, jacking up our population is not going to solve anything but the need for more profit growth.

Canada needs growth because most municipalities are failing to provide adequate infrastructure to Canada’s growing population so we think increasing our population would solve our issues.

However, a lot of that has to do with the way Canada grows which is outward and low density. If Canada was experiencing high levels of growth and it translates to high density, economically sustainable neighborhoods then yes we can grow out of our problems due to that high cluster of residents in a confined space lowering the tax burden for the rest of our population.

Also, a higher population means more competitive markets. We are squeezed terribly by internet, cell phone, and inter-city transportation because our markets aren’t large enough to provide a healthy competition between more then 3 companies.

Finally, this higher population growth is leading to Canada becoming more culturally relevant. A lot of our world famous figures are 1st or 2nd Gen immigrants. Think The Weeknd and Alphonso Davies for example. It also leads to Canadians themselves becoming more “worldly” individuals and providing an ever expanding knowledge base to solve our contemporary problems.

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

lol holy — read a book son

"KKK is leftist" jesus christ

The KKK was founded by confederates and then revived in direct opposition to the leftist civil rights movement

And who were the confederates son? Democrats.

https://youtu.be/g_a7dQXilCo

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

This could be the most "woke" post ever.

Not quite sure where you are going with this.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

And who were the confederates son? Democrats.

https://youtu.be/g_a7dQXilCo

What an outdated video. It's blatantly obvious that since the two parties traded places in the 1960s.

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

What an outdated video. It's blatantly obvious that since the two parties traded places in the 1960s.

Do you know how ridiculous that theory sounds? There is no evidence that there was any switch!. How about the NDP become capitalists and the
PC become socialists; just switch. II never happened.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

Do you know how ridiculous that theory sounds? There is no evidence that there was any switch!. How about the NDP become capitalists and the
PC become socialists; just switch. II never happened.

You just posted a video about how the Democrats supported slavery in thr 19th century, and that until the 1960's southern Democrats were against civil right.


What on Earth does that have to do with the NDP, or Canada for that matter. Sounds like you need to take a "history for dummies" course. This is 2023, not 1953.

[rrskylar]

As iajs pointed out the real problem is not woke it’s meth, too many posters here are meth addicted and just can’t think straight so what seems woke is meth, both cause serious mental health issues for the addicted!

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

As iajs pointed out the real problem is not woke it’s meth, too many posters here are meth addicted and just can’t think straight so what seems woke is meth, both cause serious mental health issues for the addicted!

Give me a break.

I only smoked a pint!