The Vancouver Business Thread

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Are there any other developers juggling this many developments at once? I don't think Onni, Westbank, both Bosas combined, or any other of the major players have more projects underway in Vancouver. Concord Pacific is the only one I found with more projects, but that's including projects in Toronto, Calgary, and London, England.

It's hard to compare because most developers are pretty discreet about their purchasing, especially if they're buying up strata units. They'll use a shell company, and possibly a lawyer, (for example try searching KKBL Ventures). Westbank and Bosa, for example, assemble sites without advertising they're involvement until it's all tied up. It's possible Reliance Holdings have a portfolio which includes many potential redevelopment sites that's as significant as this list, (including several not on their website) but of course many of theirs will be commercial rather than residential.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's hard to compare because most developers are pretty discreet about their purchasing, especially if they're buying up strata units. They'll use a shell company, and possibly a lawyer, (for example try searching KKBL Ventures). Westbank and Bosa, for example, assemble sites without advertising they're involvement until it's all tied up. It's possible Reliance Holdings have a portfolio which includes many potential redevelopment sites that's as significant as this list, (including several not on their website) but of course many of theirs will be commercial rather than residential.

Coromandel has 13 in progress projects openly listed on their website, though, which is pretty insane compared to even the biggest players in the Vancouver market.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Coromandel has 13 in progress projects openly listed on their website, though, which is pretty insane compared to even the biggest players in the Vancouver market.

Isn’t Coromandel the one run by two young guys originally funded by a parent involved in property development in China? Sounds like they might have picked up some of the bad over-leveraging habits that helped bring on market troubles there.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-property-sector-crisis-imf-economy-debt-2023-2?amp

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Isn’t Coromandel the one run by two young guys originally funded by a parent involved in property development in China? Sounds like they might have picked up some of the bad over-leveraging habits that helped bring on market troubles there.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-property-sector-crisis-imf-economy-debt-2023-2?amp

The guy fronting the company here doesn't seem young.

I wonder where this "Georgia Court: An existing 25-strata unit complex in Chinatown" project is located.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I wonder where this "Georgia Court: An existing 25-strata unit complex in Chinatown" project is located.

Chinatown Centre at 288 E Georgia seems to fit the bill. It has 25 starta commercial units.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Isn’t Coromandel the one run by two young guys originally funded by a parent involved in property development in China? Sounds like they might have picked up some of the bad over-leveraging habits that helped bring on market troubles there.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-property-sector-crisis-imf-economy-debt-2023-2?amp

I think that's Landa Global.
https://issuu.com/iconicconciergemagazine/docs/summer2020/s/10723084

[cyclinginvancouver]

Lanyard Investments, a lender on Coromandel’s Alberta 40 properties, was the first to pull the plug on its debt, issuing demand letters seeking repayment of $16.6 million by way of letters sent Dec. 15, 2022 and Jan. 19.

By Jan. 31, eight lenders on six of Coromandel’s properties had issued notices of default and demand letters seeking repayment of $218 million.

The biggest single creditor seeking repayment is the lender Gardenful Ventures, according to an affidavit to the court proceedings. Gardenful issued demand letters for repayment of $66 million on two of Coromandel’s developments.

On Dec. 21, 2022, it issued a demand for repayment of $53.6 million from the Laurel 57 property, and on Dec. 22, 2022 it sought $14.5 million from the Georgia Court entity.

Coromandel’s Southview Gardens property had the largest number of creditors seeking return of the most money, with three of its lenders demanding $80.5 million.

A company called Peakhill Capital was first on Jan. 15 with its demand for $50.8 million, followed by Cenyard Pacific Development and Woodbourne Canada Partners IV INT MF Corp. on Jan. 25, demanding $21.4 million and $8.3 million, respectively.

https://vancouversun.com/news/as-financi...eks-creditor-protection-industry-watches

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Isn’t Coromandel the one run by two young guys originally funded by a parent involved in property development in China? Sounds like they might have picked up some of the bad over-leveraging habits that helped bring on market troubles there.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-property-sector-crisis-imf-economy-debt-2023-2?amp

Coromandel have been around for at least ten years. Initially (and still legally) they were C M Bay Properties, and perhaps ironically, one of their early successful developments was Citti on West Broadway that they picked up from Royal Broadway Developments who failed to sell it when it was first marketed.

[djh]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Coromandel have been around for at least ten years. Initially (and still legally) they were C M Bay Properties, and perhaps ironically, one of their early successful developments was Citti on West Broadway that they picked up from Royal Broadway Developments who failed to sell it when it was first marketed.

I found even more irony in them stating that a lot of their problems came from the length of time the City of Vancouver took to process development paperwork.

Chief Operating Officer of Coromandel: Raymond (ex-City Councillor) Louie...

I bet developers around the Lower Mainland are absolutely choking of ironic laughter at this.

[Migrant_Coconut]

In fairness, Louie was more or less one of the useless grifters - highly doubt he ever paid attention to the approvals process.

[C3YVR]

Red Bull buys Chilliwack site for first North American ingredient facility
Chilliwack plant will be Red Bull's second premix facility in the world as it eyes U.S. growth
https://biv.com/article/2023/02/red-bull...first-north-american-ingredient-facility

[whatnext]

Hmm, why is Coromandel pushing back on WeChat over its documented debts? Surely Twitter or Facebook which reach more of a North American audience.

Vancouver developer Coromandel Properties appears to be pushing back on media reports about debts
A statement circulating on Chinese-language social media app WeChat outlines that some media reports have been spreading rumours and exaggerating details about the company.
Author of the article: Joanne Lee-Young, Dan Fumano
Published Feb 14, 2023

A Vancouver developer that has accumulated more than $700 million in debt, according to court records, appears to be pushing back on media reports about its efforts to seek creditor protection and the potential impact on presale buyers.

Coromandel Properties has been acquiring land and developing multi-family residential towers and townhomes around Vancouver since 2013. But the company is struggling to make payments on its 16 properties — most of which are unfinished — according to a petition filed last week in B.C. Supreme Court that asks for time to sort through a maze of financial problems due to difficulty servicing its debts amid rising interest rates.

But a statement circulating on Chinese-language social media app WeChat outlines that some media reports have been spreading rumours and exaggerating details about the company.

The statement, posted in Chinese, said some reports inaccurately reported the company owed more than $1 billion. The statement said the company’s Frame project, which is located in East Vancouver on Kingsway, is running according to plan.....

https://vancouversun.com/business/real-e...ndel-properties-pushing-back-media-debts

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Hmm, why is Coromandel pushing back on WeChat over its documented debts? Surely Twitter or Facebook which reach more of a North American audience.

I've tried to verify any source for this article and I wasn't able to find any, there's nothing in Coromandel's WeChat articles that isn't on their Instagram. More likely than not it was a post by an affiliated but not representative individual. If that's the case, then it's probably their choice to say their piece wherever.

[madog222]

Coromandel has not asked Postmedia News for any corrections, retractions or clarifications in its reporting to date.

When asked about the Chinese-language statement on WeChat, a representative for Coromandel declined to answer who specifically wrote the statement but said in an email: “Coromandel cannot provide any further commentary. However, we will submit a secondary statement later this week.”

https://theprovince.com/business/real-es...wcm/714f613f-ac69-4682-be20-a5843b2d81eb

Sounds like it was them.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Hmm, why is Coromandel pushing back on WeChat over its documented debts? Surely Twitter or Facebook which reach more of a North American audience.

They know their customers and maybe the exaggerated reports were in the Chinese media?
I never saw any report of over $1B in debt (in English media).

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by madog222

https://theprovince.com/business/real-es...wcm/714f613f-ac69-4682-be20-a5843b2d81eb

Sounds like it was them.

Could go either way, it might have been by them or it might be by someone within the company, but notice how they never said a statement by Coromandel, but rather a "statement circulating on [...] WeChat".

Ultimately I'm just giving a little push back against the casual dogwhistling.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

They know their customers and maybe the exaggerated reports were in the Chinese media?
I never saw any report of over $1B in debt (in English media).

Yes, the figure I have seen around has always been $700 million, which is still pretty significant!

[cyclinginvancouver]

Financially troubled Vancouver developer Cormandel Properties’ application for protection from its creditors was delayed in a court hearing Thursday, but the disassembly of its property empire has already begun.

B.C. Supreme Court Justice Kevin Loo adjourned Coromandel’s petition under the Companies and Creditors Arrangement Act to March 10, with the consent of its creditors.

Coromandel agreed to a separate application of one of those creditors, Peakhill Capital Inc., to appoint a receiver to take control of Coromandel’s Southview Gardens property, a 140-unit rental property at 3240 East 58th Ave. in Vancouver, that it was holding for future redevelopment.

And counsel representing Coromandel, Katie Mak, said negotiations since their initial application on Feb. 6 had led to agreements with other creditors to take other developments from the company’s portfolio of 16 properties.

https://vancouversun.com/business/real-e...s-prompts-disassembly-of-property-empire

[whatnext]

Subscriber article in the Globe & Mail outlines some of the dollar figures around Coromandel. Any other developers come to mind that might be in the same predicament of having bought high and not covering their costs?

Developer insolvency rattles Vancouver real estate industry
SHANE DINGMANREAL ESTATE REPORTER
VANCOUVER
PUBLISHED FEBRUARY 15, 2023

The financial difficulties of a Vancouver real estate development company sitting on close to a billion dollars in property has raised questions about the health of the housing market in Canada’s third-largest city.

On Feb. 6, Coromandel Properties filed court papers seeking temporary protection from its creditors, to which it owes more than $700-million. Such filings often lead to the appointment of a receiver for the insolvent company whose assets may be restructured or sold off to satisfy its debts. Two principals associated with the company signed off on most of the debts – Zheng Yu Zhong and Junchao Mo – but the company’s profile was also raised through its employment of five-term Vancouver city councillor and former mayoral candidate Raymond Louie as an executive.

The company’s application is replete with examples of company paying top dollar for sites between 2016 and 2022, borrowing millions to hold on to them, and being unable to redevelop them into more profitable uses.

The insolvency made local headlines, but at least inside the real estate development world it did not come as a shock.

“The market has rumours, we were aware of concerns for a while that had been expressed by not us but other lenders. … It’s a pretty small community,” said John Nicola, CEO of Nicola Wealth, which bought Coromandel out of a joint venture on a Vancouver apartment site earlier this year. Mr. Nicola said Coromandel approached the Nicola Wealth Real Estate arm of the company seeking a “liquidity event” less than a year after the two companies partnered to build two towers of 22 and 14 storeys with 441 market rental apartments and 100 affordable housing units.,,,,

....In one example, Coromandel says it purchased a site called Southview Garden in 2017 for $72-million, and there are three loans registered on that property that total more than $80.5-million. The land is a little under three hectares with 140 townhouses and apartments on it that earn about $224,000 in rent monthly. This does not appear to be enough to satisfy the debt payments on loans, as three parties are named seeking repayment: Cenyard Pacific Development Inc. is seeking $21.4-million, WB Partners Canada is seeking $8.2-million and Peakhill Capital Ltd. is seeking repayment of a $50.8-million...

Lanyard Capital is also seeking the return of another $16-million it loaned Coromandel for a site called Alberta 40, which was a land assembly of six properties purchased for $35-million in 2017. The properties generate $15,377 a month in rent, but the interest on Lanyard’s loan is costing Coromandel $4,796 a day, which equates to about 10 times more in costs than the site earns....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...-rattles-vancouver-real-estate-industry/

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Subscriber article in the Globe & Mail outlines some of the dollar figures around Coromandel. Any other developers come to mind that might be in the same predicament of having bought high and not covering their costs?

Is Landa better run?

https://www.landaglobal.com/news/developer-kevin-cheung-an-interview-with-by-montecristo/

Like people have said most of the other developers that manage to stockpile properties are usually financially well backed by REITs/pension plans/long time developers.