Metro Vancouver Parks & Green Space

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Food for thought on the seawall, and ways it could be improved.

I, for one, would love more restaurants and entertainment options adjacent to, or located on the seawall. Incorporating ground floor commercial spaces facing the seawall in the Plaza of Nations development would be a great start. I also think a seasonal concession at David Lam Park could be successful, and I would love if more permits for food trucks and other mobile vendors for the stretches along Sunset and English Bay beaches. Also, when the co-ops between Cambie and Granville are redeveloped they could include some seawall-facing commercial spaces too.

Never thought about it before this video but if you ask anyone who doesn't live nearby I think most people would say the best places to be on the Seawall are the OV area, the Yaletown Roundhouse area, the Morton Park area, and the Convention Centre area. Everything else is liminal space. It's nice in transit, but absolutely sterile on its own. Guess what the difference is? There's actually things there.

Nice to see WE residents called out for NIMBYism instead of the regular suburban punching bags. Everyone pretends they're a YIMBY until it's their backyard.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Food for thought on the seawall, and ways it could be improved.

I, for one, would love more restaurants and entertainment options adjacent to, or located on the seawall. Incorporating ground floor commercial spaces facing the seawall in the Plaza of Nations development would be a great start. I also think a seasonal concession at David Lam Park could be successful, and I would love if more permits for food trucks and other mobile vendors for the stretches along Sunset and English Bay beaches. Also, when the co-ops between Cambie and Granville are redeveloped they could include some seawall-facing commercial spaces too.

It's a good video. I think the city has done more to help with this issue in recent developments, going as far back as Yaletown in the late 90s.

There are some gaps, but I do appreciate the "non-commercial" aspects of the Seawall too. It needs a balance, and some more commercial spaces (food mostly), would be good, but don't overdo it.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Nice to see WE residents called out for NIMBYism instead of the regular suburban punching bags. Everyone pretends they're a YIMBY until it's their backyard.

As a WE resident, I would love to see more animation down here. I love the density going up with Landmark and Kengo and hopefully the extra residents will help the restaurants along the west end of Robson. My favourite stretches of Robson are at Bute (Breka) and Cardero which has a few very busy restaurants. Some live performance venues in my 'hood would be awesome...

[mcj]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Food for thought on the seawall, and ways it could be improved.

I, for one, would love more restaurants and entertainment options adjacent to, or located on the seawall. Incorporating ground floor commercial spaces facing the seawall in the Plaza of Nations development would be a great start. I also think a seasonal concession at David Lam Park could be successful, and I would love if more permits for food trucks and other mobile vendors for the stretches along Sunset and English Bay beaches. Also, when the co-ops between Cambie and Granville are redeveloped they could include some seawall-facing commercial spaces too.

Definitely some great upcoming opportunities on the South False Creek side that'll likely get squandered too. Pretty disheartened to learn that the Coal Harbour area was proposed to be much more vibrant than it currently is, that's a huge missed opportunity to integrate the core of downtown into the waterfront, you couldn't really get a more suitable area for entertainment options.

I think the point on a lack of nightlife hit the best of all the criticisms, simple lighting around the urban portions of the seawall would go a long way especially in winter.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Never thought about it before this video but if you ask anyone who doesn't live nearby I think most people would say the best places to be on the Seawall are the OV area, the Yaletown Roundhouse area, the Morton Park area, and the Convention Centre area. Everything else is liminal space. It's nice in transit, but absolutely sterile on its own. Guess what the difference is? There's actually things there.

Nice to see WE residents called out for NIMBYism instead of the regular suburban punching bags. Everyone pretends they're a YIMBY until it's their backyard.

By your rationale then every trail through Stanley Park should have shops and coffee stands.

It is funny how bemoan the fact developers are forced to include retail that will be underused at street level yet think there's a market on edge spaces(which is what the seawall is) for non-stop commercial spaces.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Food for thought on the seawall, and ways it could be improved.

I, for one, would love more restaurants and entertainment options adjacent to, or located on the seawall. Incorporating ground floor commercial spaces facing the seawall in the Plaza of Nations development would be a great start. I also think a seasonal concession at David Lam Park could be successful, and I would love if more permits for food trucks and other mobile vendors for the stretches along Sunset and English Bay beaches. Also, when the co-ops between Cambie and Granville are redeveloped they could include some seawall-facing commercial spaces too.

There have been more retail spaces and restaurants on the seawall in the past than there are today. There are office spaces between Burrard Bridge and Granville Bridge that used to be retail, but they failed. There was much more retail in Leg-in-Boot Square, including a supermarket, but it closed, and nobody wanted to reopen it - I think it's now a Crossfit franchise. Other retail units there were converted to townhouses. There was retail built underneath Silver Sea, next to George Wainborn Park by Granville Bridge, but there was no interest from anyone in leasing it. The Park Board have been trying to get someone to build a restaurant on the waterfront in Coal Harbour for 12 years. Two potential operators have backed out.

The theory of more retail or restaurants is great. The reality is that it seems to work better in a modest cluster of units like the Olympic Village, or the foot of Davie, where the City planned local centres and where there's a captive residential market as well as passing walkers, joggers etc. The next that's intended to create those conditions will be the redeveloped Plaza of Nations redevelopment, and we'll see how that performs.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

There are some gaps, but I do appreciate the "non-commercial" aspects of the Seawall too. It needs a balance, and some more commercial spaces (food mostly), would be good, but don't overdo it.

Let parks be parks and pedestrian malls be pedestrian malls. There's no excuse for a high traffic pedestrian path right next to the densest parts of the city to have zero street level engagement. As an extra thought, the Aquabus stations along the Seawall have even less excuse to be sterile nothing-zones. What's even the point of Spyglass or David Lam Park, or the Maritime Museum stops right now? They're just sad.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Let parks be parks and pedestrian malls be pedestrian malls. There's no excuse for a high traffic pedestrian path right next to the densest parts of the city to have zero street level engagement. As an extra thought, the Aquabus stations along the Seawall have even less excuse to be sterile nothing-zones. What's even the point of Spyglass or David Lam Park, or the Maritime Museum stops right now? They're just sad.

And yet people request to be taken to those stops. They're like a bus stop - do you want a coffee shop at each of those too? (Forget I asked, you probably do!)

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

As a WE resident, I would love to see more animation down here. I love the density going up with Landmark and Kengo and hopefully the extra residents will help the restaurants along the west end of Robson. My favourite stretches of Robson are at Bute (Breka) and Cardero which has a few very busy restaurants. Some live performance venues in my 'hood would be awesome...

Just one damn cafe on Beach Ave and Chilco would be nice so I can sit on a patio and look at the water, or one at Jervis. When they are super isolated the business really has a hard time in the off seasons.

[SpongeG]

whatever happened to this idea? is it still planning or long gone and dead?


straight.com

[SpongeG]

some of the housing along south false creek towards granville was built with retail and cafe space in it yet has never come to fruition. It's all very dull and dead.

I specifically thinking of these. Is that travel office still there? what a waste of space.


vancouver.ca



thetyee.ca

[Nouvellecosse]

There are definitely missed opportunities for more vibrant areas along what is an enormous waterfront. Areas that function as a peaceful respite for walking or biking are great but that function could be served by the huge Stanley Park seawall. That said, part of the reason there's so much activity on the Halifax waterfront is probably that such a small portion of it is publicly accessible. So much is navy base, shipbuilding, dry docks, container terminal, etc. that recreation gets gets funneled into a small area. A lot of that is fine as it's good to have a working harbour but in other parts like Dartmouth and along the Bedford basin it seems kid of unnecessary for the water to be cut off by train tracks.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

And yet people request to be taken to those stops. They're like a bus stop - do you want a coffee shop at each of those too? (Forget I asked, you probably do!)

Not every single bus stop, but any "destination" transit stop which we're trying to promote to tourists and day trippers alongside commuters probably should, yeah. How sad would it be if the Seabus was on a barren waterfront, or Stadium Chinatown didn't have nearby commercial activation, or New Westminster didn't, or Production Way didn't. It's not enough to provide transit as an option, it should be an appealing option.

The Lower Lonsdale Shipyards district seems universally beloved to me. I don't know why we wouldn't want more of that.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

some of the housing along south false creek towards granville was built with retail and cafe space in it yet has never come to fruition. It's all very dull and dead.

I'm pretty sure that area has a few cafes and restaurants, though the area definitely suffers from a lack of gravitation from any real destinations. I don't think a lot of people find themselves in that area unless they're intending on passing through.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

some of the housing along south false creek towards granville was built with retail and cafe space in it yet has never come to fruition. It's all very dull and dead.

I specifically thinking of these. Is that travel office still there? what a waste of space.

That's Leg-in-Boot Square that I mentioned above. The travel office is there, and there are two fitness studios. There's also one, small, local bakery. The other retail failed. The townhouses on the left of the image used to be a restaurant, but it also failed.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

And yet people request to be taken to those stops. They're like a bus stop - do you want a coffee shop at each of those too? (Forget I asked, you probably do!)

On a related note the Canada Line integrated retail space into some of their stations and those have mostly failed over time as well, sometimes more than once.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's Leg-in-Boot Square that I mentioned above. The travel office is there, and there are two fitness studios. There's also one, small, local bakery. The other retail failed. The townhouses on the left of the image used to be a restaurant, but it also failed.

I wonder how well Mahony & Sons does nearby. The other restaurants and pubs have been around for longer so I assume that's a decent destination area.

I'll note it's accessible by car too...

[Migrant_Coconut]

At the very least, it probably wouldn't hurt to overhaul Leg-in-Boot (and possibly the rest of South False Creek).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's Leg-in-Boot Square that I mentioned above. The travel office is there, and there are two fitness studios. There's also one, small, local bakery. The other retail failed. The townhouses on the left of the image used to be a restaurant, but it also failed.

Yes, the older among us will remember that area did square did have restaurants when it was first built. You can see the intent was to have a European-style square on the water but for some reason it failed. Look further along and even the Wicklow has sunny summer weekdays when their patio is nearly empty.

No doubt there's room for some improvement but there's a misunderstanding by some as to what Vancouverites want to get out of the seawall.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

There have been more retail spaces and restaurants on the seawall in the past than there are today. There are office spaces between Burrard Bridge and Granville Bridge that used to be retail, but they failed. There was much more retail in Leg-in-Boot Square, including a supermarket, but it closed, and nobody wanted to reopen it - I think it's now a Crossfit franchise. Other retail units there were converted to townhouses. There was retail built underneath Silver Sea, next to George Wainborn Park by Granville Bridge, but there was no interest from anyone in leasing it. The Park Board have been trying to get someone to build a restaurant on the waterfront in Coal Harbour for 12 years. Two potential operators have backed out.

Even Tap would work better seasonally if one or two retail spaces were along Habour Green Park at Bute.

[chowhou]

Bear in mind that the core thesis of the About Here video isn't that we should just have more coffee shops on the Seawall, it's that we should aim to design it as a destination rather than a liminal space.

Just throwing a cafe in a Skytrain station isn't guaranteed to work if 99.9% of people have no intention of slowing down their commute just like throwing a cafe on the Seawall isn't guaranteed to work if 99.9% of people have no intention of slowing down their run/bike ride.

If you want a space to be vibrant, you need a reason for people to stick around like live shows, destinations, or any sort of gravity like the video mentions.