Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Indeed. I was there too. Even though it was thousands below capacity it was a bit scary trying to move through the crowds.

[Oilkountry]

I just don't see First ontario being an NHL caliber arena even with a 200M reno. It's essentially going to be rogers arena in Vancouver which is starting to show its age due to its era. It was built on the heels of the 2 bowl design which in the modern nhl is hard to renovate to todays standards as the only place to go is up.

Sens with or without an arena are staying put. CTC can easily be renovated into rogers place or at least close. That middle section of seating and endless over supply of suites gives you so much flexibility for VIP clubs and loge seats. And i think the arena isnt the big problem in Ottawa, The former owner was majority of the attendance issues.

Let's be honest Houston is next, They are the 4th biggest city in north America they have an owner chomping at the bit and an arena more than capable and modern enough to fit an NHL team. If bettman had his way Kansas city, Milwaukie, San Antonio and about 5 other NBA cities will come before another team in Canada was even mentioned.

I truly believe Winnipeg has been a success on every level from the outside looking in but also a lesson for bettman. Small market Canadian teams though profitable at most times will almost always end up middle of the pack and will most likely start drawing from the Revenue share program at some point(s) which I'm absolutely sure the jets have doing been in recent years with the recent drop in attendance.

Combine that with the positive examples Vegas and Seattle have set for expansion. I don't see this country getting another team through anything but relocation. And I truly feel the NHL business model is getting to a point where even the worst teams aren't losing enough money to trigger it. AZ is pretty much a lock they are staying in Tempe. Florida just invested millions into a practice facility and signed a multi decade extension in that arena. Those were always the 2 white elephants in the NHL.

Best hope is that the NHL expands to 34 teams because they want that Houston market on lock that badly. And out of the kindness of bettmans heart combined with the off chance he cant find a market more attractive than Quebec on the eastern side of the united states we may see a Nordiques 2.0. But honestly I could see them shifting current western conference teams east and adding Houston/Kansas before that happens. Point is, that leaves Hamilton's chances at 0. There would be riots if it went to Hamilton over Quebec. Quebec has a Shiny new arena that any renovation to First Ontario could never match

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I just don't see First ontario being an NHL caliber arena even with a 200M reno. It's essentially going to be rogers arena in Vancouver which is starting to show its age due to its era. It was built on the heels of the 2 bowl design which in the modern nhl is hard to renovate to todays standards as the only place to go is up.

:
:

Best hope is that the NHL expands to 34 teams because they want that Houston market on lock that badly. And out of the kindness of bettmans heart combined with the off chance he cant find a market more attractive than Quebec on the eastern side of the united states we may see a Nordiques 2.0. But honestly I could see them shifting current western conference teams east and adding Houston/Kansas before that happens. Point is, that leaves Hamilton's chances at 0. There would be riots if it went to Hamilton over Quebec. Quebec has a Shiny new arena that any renovation to First Ontario could never match

Your mistake is thinking that the renovations to FOC is to attract an NHL team. It's not.
There are currently no plans, nor will there be any plans in the pipeline to bring an NHL franchise to Hamilton.

If that happens to change down the road, it's understood that more renovations will be needed.
If Winnipeg's arena can host an NHL team - there's no reason why a renovated FOC couldn't.

But I repeat - there are no plans for an NHL team in Hamilton. Most Hamiltonians don't care at this point.

[blueandgoldguy]

The potential owner in Houston is most certainly not chomping at the bit to get an NHL team as he has expressed publicly that the asking price for the Arizona Coyotes is too high...and that was a few years ago.

As for Florida, their arena lease runs out in 2028 and there is an opt-out after this season.

[Echoes]

The City of Saskatoon is continuing to take steps down a path towards a new downtown arena:

City selects Stantec as technical advisor for downtown arena, convention centre district

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree. L.A. has two NHL teams, New York three teams. Very common in NBA and MLB as well to have multiple teams in one metro area, let alone city. For sure, the GTHA should have a second team. I'd love to see 10 teams in Canada, with that second in the GTHA and the return of the Nordiques.

We have groups jumping at the chance to buy the Sens, which will come with an additional Billion+ investment into an arena. Moving a team to Quebec City would be a cinch in comparison.

Toronto's population: 6 million?
La and NYC: 18 million?

The National and American League operated in the northeast region. Numerous cities had a team in both leagues. Somehow Chicago managed to keep both of their teams while the Boston Braves and Philadelphia Athletics moved to other cities.

It's 15 to 20,000 butts in seats per game. Halifax could support a team in that regard. It's multi-billion dollar business in which valuations are everything. Territorial competition is bad.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Toronto's population: 6 million?
La and NYC: 18 million?

The National and American League operated in the northeast region. Numerous cities had a team in both leagues. Somehow Chicago managed to keep both of their teams while the Boston Braves and Philadelphia Athletics moved to other cities.

It's 15 to 20,000 butts in seats per game. Halifax could support a team in that regard. It's multi-billion dollar business in which valuations are everything. Territorial competition is bad.

It's about more than population. Hockey is more popular in Canada than the U.S. New York has 11 major league teams, L.A. has 10 and teams while Toronto has 4. Remove 2-2-1 if we don't count soccer.

Even if Hamilton or a suburb of Toronto attracted an NHL team, it's guaranteed that it would have no effect on the Leafs' attendance, and little effect on the media revenue, if any I'm sure. Leafs would continue to dominate as the fan favourite in the GTHA.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Even if Hamilton or a suburb of Toronto attracted an NHL team, it's guaranteed that it would have no effect on the Leafs' attendance, and little effect on the media revenue, if any I'm sure.

And that latter point has continually been Bettman's reasoning for avoiding expansion in the hockey hotbeds of the land. Always on the chase for that massive TV deal.

But after this long going with that strategy I'm not sure how much more can be done. There may only be so much success to be had trying to bring the game to those parts of the US where American football is king and media markets care far less about anything else (I mean, it's king just about everywhere in the US and generates a lot of media money, but in some areas it's a religion; trying to shoehorn another sport into those markets, competing with other ones for the leftovers, may not lead to very much for the NHL)

[Djeffery]

The Canadian TV deal comes up in a couple more years. There is zero chance Rogers is paying what they paid last time. If Bettman wants anywhere close to that money, he needs to structure a deal with multiple networks. To make that an easier sell, another team in Canada makes it easier, with 8 teams for 2 networks. Losing a team in the US won't mean squat in rights fees, but gaining a team in Canada will gain lots more. If he can manage to make it 2 expansion teams, that would mean billlions in expansion and rights fees in the following decade, let alone the revenue the teams actually generate. So, yeah, probably going to expand to Kansas City and Portland lol.

[blueandgoldguy]

To maximize Canada's next tv/streaming deal, Bettman and company will almost assuredly go with 2 networks instead of 1 - TSN and Sportsnet. My early prediction is the new deal with be worth more annually than the old one.

[christopherj]

There is zero chance another team in Canada would have any effect on the TV rights deal in Canada. They aren't going to make millions more by adding Quebec City or Hamilton.

They will definitely use 2 networks instead of 1. Instead of getting ~ $440 million a year from Sportsnet, they will get $300 million from one network and $200 million from another.

[savevp]

Nice to see, the Ukrainian team won their first match at the Tournoi Pee Wee in Quebec. Centre Videotron was full and looking lovely as ever.

https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2023/02/11/victoire-de-lequipe-dukraine-au-tournoi-de-hockey-pee-wee

[gattaca]

I will say it be the same or lower than the current SN NHL deal. I believe SN overpaid.

Plus, over the past decade, subs to linear sports networks have declined significantly and NHL ratings on SN are good but haven't grown materially even with the advent of out-of-home viewing being measured.

Both Bell & Rogers have also shifted to putting their linear tv media properties on tighter budgets and are looking at them as cash cows to be milked rather than investment spend.

If TSN/SN sports streaming services were in full ramp up mode in the same vein as in the US, I can see the deal being higher. But their legacy tv platforms are still quite profitable while sports streaming is a money loser for now including in the US.

If the NHL deal is higher, then the other sports/leagues ex football, MLB, NBA & curling will continue to be dumped unless they're willing to forego rights fees and/or pay production costs in exchange for air time and possibly sharing of ad revenue. TSN/SN programming lineup will get even closer to the zombie entertainment channel mode with non-prime time lineup being only reruns, repackaged highlights, talk shows and ESPN programming (for TSN).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by gattaca

If the NHL deal is higher, then the other sports/leagues ex football, MLB, NBA & curling will continue to be dumped unless they're willing to forego rights fees and/or pay production costs in exchange for air time and possibly sharing of ad revenue. TSN/SN programming lineup will get even closer to the zombie entertainment channel mode with non-prime time lineup being only reruns, repackaged highlights, talk shows and ESPN programming (for TSN).

There are certain things on TSN that already seem almost like infomercials, i.e. they are televised events but generally no mention on SportsCentre or any other programming. The NLL and AEW are examples. I assume they buy the time and sell the ads themselves?

[TorontoDrew]

This seems like the most logical thread to drop this into.

from cp24.com

First-ever NBA Courtside Restaurant to open in downtown Toronto

In a news release, the NBA announced it will open it’s first-ever Courtside Restaurant in downtown Toronto this spring.

The 10,000-square foot space will offer what’s described as a “premium, sports-inspired dining experience” and feature custom art and décor that celebrates the NBA and all things basketball.

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PHOTOS
NBA Courtside Restaurant
The NBA Courtside Restaurant is seen in this image. (NBA)

Located at 15 Queens Quay East, about a 10-minute walk from the home of the Toronto Raptors at Scotiabank Arena, the restaurant itself will be operated by Urban Dining Group, which owns Gabby’s Restaurants.



This should do really well during the basketball season.
source: https://nbarestaurant.com/

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by gattaca

I will say it be the same or lower than the current SN NHL deal. I believe SN overpaid.

They absolutely overpaid at the time and have mostly squandered what they paid for.

Originally Posted by esquire

There are certain things on TSN that already seem almost like infomercials, i.e. they are televised events but generally no mention on SportsCentre or any other programming. The NLL and AEW are examples. I assume they buy the time and sell the ads themselves?

Presumably, yes.

To say nothing of the dead air of top 50 programs or general highlight shows which aren't Sportscentre.

[Coldrsx]

R&R has a new meaning.
https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/...mington-group-to-co-star-in-senators-bid

[O-tacular]

Danielle Smith is now trotting out the Quebec boogeyman in the arena talks. So fucking lame and transparent .

Smith says Quebec Premier Francois Legault is pushing to see a return of an NHL franchise to Quebec City.

“He is very, very keen and he let me know (last week in Ottawa) to try to recruit a team to come back to Quebec,” said Smith on her radio show.


“I do not want to see the Quebec Flames. I can tell you that much.”

Lander says the premier’s support for an arena is not surprising, given she is trying to secure votes in Calgary ahead of an election.

But Lander says relocation would require 24 of 32 NHL owners approving of a move for the Flames, something he says is unrealistic.

“There is only one thing worse than fear mongering that comes from team owners threatening to move the team and that's from politicians fanning the flames of moving the team,” said Lander.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/smith-in-full...-see-the-flames-move-to-quebec-1.6270851

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's about more than population. Hockey is more popular in Canada than the U.S. New York has 11 major league teams, L.A. has 10 and teams while Toronto has 4. Remove 2-2-1 if we don't count soccer.

Even if Hamilton or a suburb of Toronto attracted an NHL team, it's guaranteed that it would have no effect on the Leafs' attendance, and little effect on the media revenue, if any I'm sure. Leafs would continue to dominate as the fan favourite in the GTHA.

I did say Halifax could fill a 15 to 20,000 seat venue as well. A second playoff bound team in just about any city of Toronto's size should be able to sellout games. The deal is a second GTA team will affect MLSE's valuation.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Danielle Smith is now trotting out the Quebec boogeyman in the arena talks. So fucking lame and transparent .



https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/smith-in-full...-see-the-flames-move-to-quebec-1.6270851

I've always heard the conspiracy theory that the provincial government favours Calgary over Edmonton when it comes to funding, because Edmonton tends to skewer left. Guess it's not much of a conspiracy theory.