Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

As an aside I feel as though BenYOW is often the bearer of good/interesting YOW news.

I like Ben.

More Ben, please.

Ditto! Waiting for the Porter E292 (as flight aware calls it) trip report too!

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

On Air France AF website is showing Paris CDG- Ottawa YOW - CDG route is open for booking next winter too currently, (but it’s subject to change) as a lot of Airlines haven’t finalized its Winter flights schedules yet. Will see.

Plus wonder how well AF YOW flights will do this Summer 2023?

As Toronto YYZ, Vancouver YVR & Montreal YUL are the only 3 solid year round AF flights✈️ in Canada currently!

Also looks like WestJet is planning to go year round on the Calgary YYC- Paris CDG- YYC route operated by the WS Boeing 787 ,next winter season too? As currently it operates Spring/Summer seasons.

I'm sure they will do great!

Pre-pandemic, YOW folks had the ability to connect in Europe to European (and Asian or African) destinations via LHR or FRA.

If WS can do YYC-CDG with feed year-round, no doubt AF can operate YOW-CDG (with no feed) 5x weekly in the summer... and can likely sustain 5x weekly in the winter (if not 3/4x depending on aircraft availability) in the winter.

Heck... YEG is only 4x weekly KLM to AMS and YOW is starting at 5x.

Not a shot at YEG...just that YOW can handle at a bare minimum 5x to Europe.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MountainView

I'm sure they will do great!

Pre-pandemic, YOW folks had the ability to connect in Europe to European (and Asian or African) destinations via LHR or FRA.

If WS can do YYC-CDG with feed year-round, no doubt AF can operate YOW-CDG (with no feed) 5x weekly in the summer... and can likely sustain 5x weekly in the winter (if not 3/4x depending on aircraft availability) in the winter.

Heck... YEG is only 4x weekly KLM to AMS and YOW is starting at 5x.

Not a shot at YEG...just that YOW can handle at a bare minimum 5x to Europe.

Yes WS can feed into their Paris flights. Usually the cheapest tickets to Paris in 2022 were via Halifax.

But Air france all winter will have the only 1 stop option to lots of busy destinations and be able to compete favorably on all the rest where direct flights from Toronto exist.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 64, including 7 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count: 0

[YOWhopeful]

I note that thw Air France YOW-CDG flights are not on the google flights search engine yet when I do a dummy booking.
This would be important for visibility.

[YOWflier]

Probably just hasn’t synced up with latest Sabre/Amadeus. Shouldn’t take long.

[BenYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

As an aside I feel as though BenYOW is often the bearer of good/interesting YOW news.

Hopefully the good news keeps coming for the community to enjoy!

[fanofYOW]

I'm still on cloud 9 with today's very exciting announcement. My goal of completely phasing out AC is one step closer to becoming a reality. All we need now is for Porter to come through for us with a good North American network. This just leaves me with 2 questions:

1) I wonder if the jack***es in AC's networking team have finally woken up? Things are starting to look up for YOW, and the "flag carrier" is not part of it.

2) Not sure how it works, but I also wonder if the air service fund had any part in this or if it was solely a decision by AF?

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I'm still on cloud 9 with today's very exciting announcement. My goal of completely phasing out AC is one step closer to becoming a reality. All we need now is for Porter to come through for us with a good North American network. This just leaves me with 2 questions:

1) I wonder if the jack***es in AC's networking team have finally woken up? Things are starting to look up for YOW, and the "flag carrier" is not part of it.

2) Not sure how it works, but I also wonder if the air service fund had any part in this or if it was solely a decision by AF?

Even (if) Air Canada has woken up, they won't be adding new Ottawa YOW International flights, as they're focusing on adding at Toronto YYZ,Vancouver YVR & Momtreal YUL AC Hubs.

And it's not just only YOW that being "stagnant" for AC,as Calgary YYC & even Edmonton YEG is the same thing✅!
With WestJet & other airlines are filling the void on AC flight cuts at both YYC / YEG last several years too.

I think some kind of Ottawa YOW airport (subsidy /fund) went into starting up Air France 5x weekly flights to Paris CDG. Obviously YOW & AF queitly reach a deal on it.

As being 1 of the smaller air markets in Canada & not a YYZ, YVR or YUL. It's definitely tougher road to gain/get a lot of nonstop international flights to both Europe or Asia✅.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I'm still on cloud 9 with today's very exciting announcement. My goal of completely phasing out AC is one step closer to becoming a reality. All we need now is for Porter to come through for us with a good North American network. This just leaves me with 2 questions:

1) I wonder if the jack***es in AC's networking team have finally woken up? Things are starting to look up for YOW, and the "flag carrier" is not part of it.

2) Not sure how it works, but I also wonder if the air service fund had any part in this or if it was solely a decision by AF?

There’s a lot of really smart folks at AC. As far as network goes, if we take our Homer (pun ahead, lol) lenses off for a moment, their duds have been few in the past decade…DOH being a rare miss d’oh! (couldn’t resist the pun). It’s definitely frustrating that AC are operating fewer YOW routes in summer 2 vs summer 1 (and nowhere near 2019) of the recovery but if you were them and were facing staffing shortages at Jazz (who knows about mainline - aircraft shortages?) what’s the easiest thing to cut? The focus cities. Transatlantic aside, the real head scratcher for me is YOW-YEG. I guess at the time it was cut they were competing nonstop against two ULCCs tanking yields while still waiting for the federal-to-provincial capital traffic to return. Now suddenly Swoop is gone, government traffic is starting to come back and Flair have it to themselves but at only 3x weekly at present. Seems like an opportunity for that new Embraer operator.

@Calfan, good points about not being alone in this regard.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

There’s a lot of really smart folks at AC. As far as network goes, if we take our Homer (pun ahead, lol) lenses off for a moment, their duds have been few in the past decade…DOH being a rare miss d’oh! (couldn’t resist the pun). It’s definitely frustrating that AC are operating fewer YOW routes in summer 2 vs summer 1 (and nowhere near 2019) of the recovery but if you were them and were facing staffing shortages at Jazz (who knows about mainline - aircraft shortages?) what’s the easiest thing to cut? The focus cities. Transatlantic aside, the real head scratcher for me is YOW-YEG. I guess at the time it was cut they were competing nonstop against two ULCCs tanking yields while still waiting for the federal-to-provincial capital traffic to return. Now suddenly Swoop is gone, government traffic is starting to come back and Flair have it to themselves but at only 3x weekly at present. Seems like an opportunity for that new Embraer operator.

@Calfan, good points about not being alone in this regard.

Frustrating doesn’t even begin to describe it. I 100% agree with what everyone mentioned, however AC is doing a fantastic job at making folks like myself look for the alternatives that want to serve my airport of choice. This whole “cut anything you want but don’t touch YYZ, YUL, and YVR” is a very unflattering look.

I very much agree with your confusion over the YOW-YEG cut. If the “flag carrier” can’t connect 2 major Canadian cities, sorry to say but that’s just plain pathetic.

[Calfan12]

AIR FRANCE SCHEDULES OTTAWA LATE-JUNE 2023 LAUNCH

Air France yesterday (02FEB23) announced new service launch to Canada, with the opening of Paris CDG – Ottawa reservations for travel on/after 27JUN23. The Skyteam member will be the first carrier to serve Trans-Atlantic flight to/from Ottawa since the pandemic.

Airbus A330-200 aircraft will operate this route 5 times weekly on year-round basis.

AF328 CDG1310 – 1505YOW 332 x35
AF327 YOW1705 – 0615+1CDG 332 x35

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230203-afyow

[Truenorth00]

I don't get the complaints. No carrier in any country has main bases at every major city. So why would we expect AC to have a hub at every major metro in the country? BA doesn't have hubs all over the UK. Just London. They don't even fly to Birmingham, the second largest metro in the UK. Or look at the largest CSAs in the US. You'll notice most of them don't have all three major carriers hubbing there.

Unfortunately for Ottawa, we're squeezes between two large markets that AC does well in. There will never be a case for a hub here. So the only question was whether and when would somebody else answer the call. It's great for us that Porter stepped up. Hopefully, they do well here and can hopefully grow and make partnerships with other YOW carriers.

[OTSkyline]

I don't think anyone expects YOW to be an international hub, instead all we're asking for is a few direct US/Intl routes (instead of all being funnelled through YYZ).

[ars]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I don't think anyone expects YOW to be an international hub, instead all we're asking for is a few direct US/Intl routes (instead of all being funnelled through YYZ).

This. In the context of our population and geographic location, YOW has a decent number of direct destinations. But, as the capital of a G7 country, we should have more direct routes to major urban centers of other G7 countries.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

There’s a lot of really smart folks at AC. As far as network goes, if we take our Homer (pun ahead, lol) lenses off for a moment, their duds have been few in the past decade…DOH being a rare miss d’oh! (couldn’t resist the pun). It’s definitely frustrating that AC are operating fewer YOW routes in summer 2 vs summer 1 (and nowhere near 2019) of the recovery but if you were them and were facing staffing shortages at Jazz (who knows about mainline - aircraft shortages?) what’s the easiest thing to cut? The focus cities. Transatlantic aside, the real head scratcher for me is YOW-YEG. I guess at the time it was cut they were competing nonstop against two ULCCs tanking yields while still waiting for the federal-to-provincial capital traffic to return. Now suddenly Swoop is gone, government traffic is starting to come back and Flair have it to themselves but at only 3x weekly at present. Seems like an opportunity for that new Embraer operator.

@Calfan, good points about not being alone in this regard.

A lot of federal Government folks that I work with would often fly YOW-YEG to get to the Northern Communities. Canadian North / First Air had great connections to the small YK, NWT, and western NU communities from YEG. It would often involve staying overnight in YEG to catch the flights north the next day, but this was never a problem.

With the loss of the flight, I am not sure if AC is trying to push folks via YYC or YVR to YXY or YZF. But often these two hubs are not the final destination.

I'm definitely surprised there is not YEG-YOW even if it were summer seasonal (May 1 to Oct 31).

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by MountainView

A lot of federal Government folks that I work with would often fly YOW-YEG to get to the Northern Communities. Canadian North / First Air had great connections to the small YK, NWT, and western NU communities from YEG. It would often involve staying overnight in YEG to catch the flights north the next day, but this was never a problem.

With the loss of the flight, I am not sure if AC is trying to push folks via YYC or YVR to YXY or YZF. But often these two hubs are not the final destination.

I'm definitely surprised there is not YEG-YOW even if it were summer seasonal (May 1 to Oct 31).

WELL... speak it into existence:



AC 357/358 YOW-YEG - which is the old/existing YOW-YYC later afternoon and evening departures flight number

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I don't think anyone expects YOW to be an international hub, instead all we're asking for is a few direct US/Intl routes (instead of all being funnelled through YYZ).

Originally Posted by ars

This. In the context of our population and geographic location, YOW has a decent number of direct destinations. But, as the capital of a G7 country, we should have more direct routes to major urban centers of other G7 countries.

Running point to point flights away from hubs is expensive and challenging for network carriers. Let's say they want to offer a YOW-SFO flight on an A321. They have to have the A321 fly YYZ-YOW and YOW-YYZ rotations to bookend the YOW-SFO roundtrip. This is regardless of whether they need the same capacity on that YYZ-YOW slot. And they have to do that for every non hub flight from Ottawa. It's complex and inefficient. Which is exactly why they flow pax through YYZ. A smaller airline with smaller airplanes hubbing here was the only way we were ever going to get more direct flights. I have doubts that AC will really fight back. They can still get a lot of long haul business through YYZ and YUL.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Running point to point flights away from hubs is expensive and challenging for network carriers. Let's say they want to offer a YOW-SFO flight on an A321. They have to have the A321 fly YYZ-YOW and YOW-YYZ rotations to bookend the YOW-SFO roundtrip. This is regardless of whether they need the same capacity on that YYZ-YOW slot. And they have to do that for every non hub flight from Ottawa. It's complex and inefficient. Which is exactly why they flow pax through YYZ. A smaller airline with smaller airplanes hubbing here was the only way we were ever going to get more direct flights. I have doubts that AC will really fight back. They can still get a lot of long haul business through YYZ and YUL.

I have never flown Air France, but looking at their seat maps online, I think a lot of premium passengers might prefer Air Canada's individual pods (all have aisle access) instead of AF's 2x2x2 in the business cabin.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by MountainView

I have never flown Air France, but looking at their seat maps online, I think a lot of premium passengers might prefer Air Canada's individual pods (all have aisle access) instead of AF's 2x2x2 in the business cabin.

I've flown both types of configurations and I'll say there are pros and cons to both.

The pod is better for "privacy" if you're alone.

The pod is poor if you're travelling with someone and want to be together. The 2x config is better for this purpose and can allow for a working flight, etc.

The 2x config seats have a privacy screen to raise if you'd like.

Pods are better for aisle access, obviously. But, seat pitch on the 2x config is more than sufficient to allow passage of the nestled pax. In lie-flat config, though, it can be an issue if someone is sleeping and you need to pee. That's when you do your best mission impossible maneuvering.

The angled pod can make you feel discomfort at certain times. Given it's not straight-forward facing, the forces acting upon your body during periods of acceleration or braking are angled and unusual. This is temporary and can affect people differently. It is definitely noticeable for me but not a huge bother. Others I know really hate it.

Edit: I see now the AF config is also slightly angled so that might be a wash. My experiences in this config have been on other airlines where seats are straight-forward facing.